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Old 2013-09-27, 08:55   Link #1441
Parchevich
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I know people are upset that the story shafted Rei for Rin but I disagree· Yes Rei gave up his spot in the relay but it showed his own maturity·

It wasn't just about Rin either because Rei saw how the team being worried about Rin would affect their performance· Rei did something to help someone else· Some people say Rei was the joke of the series but I don't see that at all· If anything he had the most positive growth of all the characters·

I think where the episode failed is not in how it treated Rei but Rin, up to he got what he wanted he acted quite awful. Yes Rin apologized for his behavior but only after getting to swim in the relay· Rin for being such an important character got limited character growth. And while I am for one glad he gained happiness & his friends again, I wish more of that was based on his own efforts, not the effort of others·
I'm not upset over the ending of Rei's story - getting upset over an escapist fictional story would be silly - but I do think he got short-changed. He might have shown maturity in giving up his spot, but that's a paltry consolation considering he found out how little he matters to his friends compared to Rin, and that all the effort he expended on winning that relay was all for nothing. He earned his spot, while Rin earned nothing, yet Rin got everything he wanted at the expense of Rei (and others).

But I agree with you that from a narrative perspective Rin got it way worse than Rei. No growth, no character development, and complete passivity in his own story resolution don't make for a compelling character.
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Old 2013-09-27, 19:31   Link #1442
GDiddy
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I'm suspecting though that we might get more Rin development in season two....

I get what everyone's saying about Rei giving up his spot...I do. But Rin basically got his way by acting like a two year old.
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Old 2013-09-27, 21:18   Link #1443
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This would have made that scene a heck of a lot better for me.

http://beccafey.tumblr.com/post/6247...-chan-rei-chan
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Old 2013-09-27, 21:33   Link #1444
YayPepsi
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I get what everyone's saying about Rei giving up his spot...I do. But Rin basically got his way by acting like a two year old.
People keep saying Rin "got his way" by throwing a tantrum, and I just don't get it. Rin wasn't trying to "get his way." He wasn't throwing a tantrum because he wanted the Iwatobi team to come chasing after him. He just wanted to be left alone and Nitori kept pestering him and pestering him and didn't know when to back off, and Rin finally snapped. When he stormed off after that it was to be alone again. He was genuinely angry in that moment. He wasn't trying to get his way, he was just trying to escape so he could wallow in his misery privately.

He didn't know Haru and the gang was going to chase after him, he didn't know Rei was going to offer his spot up to him. In fact, Rin was angry when he saw Haru had followed him. It's not like he sought them out and begged for a spot on their team and then pouted and threw a tantrum about it when they said no. They sought him out and offered it to him. (Rin did break down and say he wanted to swim with the team, but Rei had already given up his spot in the relay before that while Rin wasn't even in the room. He made that decision on his own.) If they didn't want him to swim with them, or if Rei was uncomfortable, they could have easily just left him alone.
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Old 2013-09-27, 21:43   Link #1445
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Originally Posted by YayPepsi View Post
People keep saying Rin "got his way" by throwing a tantrum, and I just don't get it. Rin wasn't trying to "get his way." He wasn't throwing a tantrum because he wanted the Iwatobi team to come chasing after him. He just wanted to be left alone and Nitori kept pestering him and pestering him and didn't know when to back off, and Rin finally snapped. When he stormed off after that it was to be alone again. He was genuinely angry in that moment. He wasn't trying to get his way, he was just trying to escape so he could wallow in his misery privately.
I guess "got his way" isn't necessarily the right term. More like, he got his "fix" thanks to his friends and without really doing much to fix himself. Him running away is basically him doing nothing to deal with his lack of confidence, his overly competitive nature, and destructive approach to friendships. He wanted a "fix", he wanted to be "free" -- and they gave it to him freely.

I got to think about this, by the way. Do you think, because of the way Rin's character development was resolved, if he'll end up relapsing if they make another season?
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Old 2013-09-27, 21:53   Link #1446
YayPepsi
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I guess "got his way" isn't necessarily the right term. More like, he got his "fix" thanks to his friends and without really doing much to fix himself. Him running away is basically him doing nothing to deal with his lack of confidence, his overly competitive nature, and destructive approach to friendships. He wanted a "fix", he wanted to be "free" -- and they gave it to him freely.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though. His friends saw how much he was suffering and they wanted to help him. Maybe they made it too easy on him, but if I had a friend like Rin who was clearly having some sort of break down and was crashing right in front of my eyes, I would be concerned and do anything I could to help him out. The Iwatobi team thought letting him swim with them would help him, and they were right.

I feel like throughout the anime, Rin was trying to fix himself. It's just that he was really clueless about how to do so. He thought beating Haru would fix him, and make himself feel better, and he was wrong. Then he tried signing up for the relay but that fell through because he was too focused on his old teammates. The effort was there, but he was directing it the wrong way and just made himself feel worse. He ran away in the end, and yeah, that doesn't really do much to help the situation...but I find that realistic.

Quote:
I got to think about this, by the way. Do you think, because of the way Rin's character development was resolved, if he'll end up relapsing if they make another season?
I think it's a possibility. The kind of issues Rin was facing don't go away overnight. He may be on the road to recovery, and it seems like he's doing better now, but who knows down the road? I think his low self-esteem will be something he'll have to battle his entire life, hopefully with the support of his friends. But I'm not sure Kyoani will go that route.
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Old 2013-09-27, 22:17   Link #1447
Puu
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Originally Posted by YayPepsi View Post
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though. His friends saw how much he was suffering and they wanted to help him. Maybe they made it too easy on him, but if I had a friend like Rin who was clearly having some sort of break down and was crashing right in front of my eyes, I would be concerned and do anything I could to help him out. The Iwatobi team thought letting him swim with them would help him, and they were right.
Yeah, it's not a necessarily bad thing.... for the people making the sacrifice and those who contributed positively to his closure. And I think that's biggest problem because, unlike Rin, these guys' issues didn't have the same level of exposure as Rin's did. With the way the show underlined Rin's many many issues, you'd think he'd get a satisfying ending where he does something to deal with his issues (beyond verbal and physical violence) and when that's not enough, the others pitch in. But that's not what happens and it just feels like twelve episodes of watching his manpain in action for nothing because he relapses in the last episode and goes back to "I'm going to quit swimming", "Nobody can help me.", "Shut up" mentality and the series handwaves this all with a the sacrifice from the other characters.

Quote:
I feel like throughout the anime, Rin was trying to fix himself. It's just that he was really clueless about how to do so. He thought beating Haru would fix him, and make himself feel better, and he was wrong. Then he tried signing up for the relay but that fell through because he was too focused on his old teammates. The effort was there, but he was directing it the wrong way and just made himself feel worse. He ran away in the end, and yeah, that doesn't really do much to help the situation...but I find that realistic.
I suppose it is... in a way, at least Rin's reactions anyway. I don't think normal people would put up with Rin's jerk attitude the way they did in the anime


Quote:
I think it's a possibility. The kind of issues Rin was facing don't go away overnight. He may be on the road to recovery, and it seems like he's doing better now, but who knows down the road? I think his low self-esteem will be something he'll have to battle his entire life, hopefully with the support of his friends. But I'm not sure Kyoani will go that route.
I was thinking that...

I personally hope next season I won't have to watch Rin's manpain for extended periods, though. It was just a bit too much in the first season. It was like, "Yes, yay, you're done with angsting about losing to Haru now you can- what? Now you're angsting about your dad? Oh, you're okay about that now-- whoa, now you're angsting about losing your old team mates? Now, you're on your lack of skills again. Uh-huh."

I wouldn't be averse to them doing parodies of Rin's love for angsting about things though...
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Old 2013-09-27, 22:23   Link #1448
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by YayPepsi View Post
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though. His friends saw how much he was suffering and they wanted to help him. Maybe they made it too easy on him, but if I had a friend like Rin who was clearly having some sort of break down and was crashing right in front of my eyes, I would be concerned and do anything I could to help him out. The Iwatobi team thought letting him swim with them would help him, and they were right.

I feel like throughout the anime, Rin was trying to fix himself. It's just that he was really clueless about how to do so. He thought beating Haru would fix him, and make himself feel better, and he was wrong. Then he tried signing up for the relay but that fell through because he was too focused on his old teammates. The effort was there, but he was directing it the wrong way and just made himself feel worse. He ran away in the end, and yeah, that doesn't really do much to help the situation...but I find that realistic.


I think it's a possibility. The kind of issues Rin was facing don't go away overnight. He may be on the road to recovery, and it seems like he's doing better now, but who knows down the road? I think his low self-esteem will be something he'll have to battle his entire life, hopefully with the support of his friends. But I'm not sure Kyoani will go that route.


I agree on all counts. I don't know how he'll figure into the story in the second season. Or even what they'll do in the second season at all. I would actually like a bit of a time skip and maybe have them on a swim team together in college or something. However, Rin and Haru seems to be so prevalent to this season, with their friendship patched up, I don't know if they will build more on that, and go more into both boys' insecurities and troubles, or if they will go at the story from another angle entirely instead. The second season should be interesting though. This is the first KyoAni series that I've seen, and they've made such a good first impression on me. I am eager to see what they do next summer.
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Old 2013-09-28, 06:59   Link #1449
Kirarakim
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My issue with Rin was from a narrative perspective. I just don't like passive characters (passive as in ones that don't change themselves, Rin's personality was far from passive).

Rei on the other hand actually had positive growth. The fact that he was okay giving up his place on the team to help someone else out, because he felt he was still part of the team shows how much he grew over the course of the series.

Haru I think grew too, although not necessarily in the final episode. However he grew in the sense that he realized why he was swimming. I didn't like him in the beginning of the series but he grew on me.

Nagisa and Makoto didn't grow much but they were pretty stable & well adjusted characters to begin with, which is fine. In fact I love Makoto best of all.

And you know I don't hate Rin. I mean just for shallow reasons I am a Miyano fan and I love his character design. I also liked Rin as a child a lot and I wanted to see that Rin come back. I just wish it was more through an active role than a passive role. I also think the show made Rin out to be too much of a jerk at times that it was almost hard to sympathize with him.

Rin hugging Haru was cute though, I am not going to lie.
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Old 2013-09-28, 08:06   Link #1450
bastek66
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Guys, guys, guys, Gou has poster in latest Megami
NSFW
super lewd
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Old 2013-09-28, 08:23   Link #1451
Endless Knackwurst
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I've seen lewder fanart of the guys than I have of Gou and Ama-chan-sensei.

...and I wasn't even looking for lewder fanart of the guys.
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Old 2013-09-28, 08:57   Link #1452
blakstealth
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Originally Posted by bastek66 View Post
Guys, guys, guys, Gou has poster in latest Megami
NSFW
super lewd
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
god, she's so adorable
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Old 2013-09-28, 09:05   Link #1453
GDiddy
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Originally Posted by bastek66 View Post
Guys, guys, guys, Gou has poster in latest Megami
NSFW
super lewd
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
That's not really lewd

Rin is such a hottie....kiddy Rin is soo cute..Oh well.

Quote:
I guess "got his way" isn't necessarily the right term. More like, he got his "fix" thanks to his friends and without really doing much to fix himself. Him running away is basically him doing nothing to deal with his lack of confidence, his overly competitive nature, and destructive approach to friendships. He wanted a "fix", he wanted to be "free" -- and they gave it to him freely.

I got to think about this, by the way. Do you think, because of the way Rin's character development was resolved, if he'll end up relapsing if they make another season?
There you go.

I don't think he would relapse in the second season though. I think he pretty much got over the feelings he had about Haru and about swimming pretty much. I mean, he and that kid who was his kouhai were hanging out with Haru and co. at the end.
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Old 2013-09-28, 09:17   Link #1454
Lord of Fire
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Guys, guys, guys, Gou has poster in latest Megami
NSFW
super lewd
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
So, am I to assume she's naked underneath that hoodie, then? Well, even if she is, I sure as heck can't tell.

It's a nice picture, regardless. Wouldn't mind a HQ version once it becomes available.
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Old 2013-09-28, 10:01   Link #1455
Kanon
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Guys, guys, guys, Gou has poster in latest Megami
NSFW
super lewd
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
It's actually Nyantype. I've been anticipating it for a month and this is what I get? Was it too much to ask to draw her in a cute swimsuit? FFS Kyoani.
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Old 2013-09-28, 10:44   Link #1456
Kirarakim
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I think one of my favorite things about this show is the limited fanservice of the girls even when it would be appropriate to see them in swimsuits. I mean we got those few old pics of the teacher but other than that...

It reminds me of all the series were the male characters are fully clothed but the women have barely anything on just the opposite and I was quite pleased at the irony of it.

That being said I think that is a very cute image of Gou. I like her a lot and wouldn't mind her having an even bigger role in the 2nd season. I am even hoping they will make a figure of her. Alter already announced Haru & Makoto.
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Old 2013-09-28, 10:52   Link #1457
CrowKenobi
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Originally Posted by bastek66 View Post
Guys, guys, guys, Gou has poster in latest Megami
NSFW
super lewd
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Images
What she's wearing under that
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Old 2013-09-28, 14:31   Link #1458
Puu
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By the way, I don't know if this has been asked before... but whereabouts in Japan is Free! exactly set? (Where is Iwatobi?)
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Old 2013-09-28, 17:24   Link #1459
Reckoner
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I think I've come to the conclusion that this show really is just a fan service show in the end. Kyoto Animation displays a clear misunderstanding of basic human anatomy much like the multitude of grotesque fan service shows with girls. It's not flattering there, and sure isn't here either. The poorly developed, cookie-cutter personality characters speak to the laziness of the show's production. Haru is the quiet and cool type, Makoto is the caring sempai, Nagisa is the energetic and happy-go-lucky kid, Rei is the butt monkey of the cast, and Rin is the typical ball of angst who is mean for no good reason.

Because of how static the cast is, and the little effort put into making this a good sports story (Seriously all good sports themed shows have great personal growth stories, but not this one), the only thing left is to watch half naked men in the pool with vague sexual undertones underneath. The sheer rarity of female-targeted shows in the industry does not make it any more justified. This show is crap, and is probably KyoAni's worst since Nichijou. So of course it's going to get a second season right? Sheesh.
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Old 2013-09-28, 22:13   Link #1460
PreSage
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At first I thought how unfair that Rei was put into a situation where he chose to switch out and allow Rin to swim with the team when Rei himself really wanted to be a part of the relay, but when I saw how the whole thing ended in ep12, I think it was a good decision. Rei may appear like the comedic relief initially but in the end he played the most important role by bringing the 4 friends together again. It was Rei giving Rin that chance to swim with his former teammates and helping him understand what it was he really wanted that brought final resolution to their quarrel.

I was initially afraid that Rin would transfer permanently to their school and really shaft Rei but it doesn't look like it. Looks like Rei will be given a chance to shine in the second season...at least I hope so because the guy certainly deserves it!
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