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Old 2011-06-27, 09:14   Link #741
Suzuku
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Shiki, Fractale, C, and to a certain extent Tatami Galaxy are all otaku anime. And to top that off they have the ultimate chuunibyou otaku anime planned for fall, Guilty Crown. Main Code Geass writers with Araki directing? Obviously an otaku show. Haruhi/K-ON!/Lucky Star/any generic moe anime fans aren't the only type of otaku.

I'm guessing that ratings revenue wasn't enough to fund the anime they were producing in the noitaminA slot even with high ratings, so they decided to switch their model to anime that would sale well on discs (which hasn't been going too well for them with the exception of Eden of the East and AnoHana).
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Old 2011-06-27, 11:33   Link #742
solomon
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I get C and to a certain extent Fractale.

Tatami Galaxy doesn't seem otaku to me. It seems perfect for the demo frankly. Otaku shows generally seem to be of a certain confined ilk, having some distinct type of story hook or character types denoting it. TG didn't seem to match any of the stuff you see topping Newtype or Animage polls.

I always did think Shiki was an odd choice, then again I haven't seen much of it.
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Old 2011-06-27, 18:56   Link #743
karice67
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How is Shiki an "otaku" anime?
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Old 2011-06-27, 19:45   Link #744
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Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Since when have they been pandering to otaku?
Since 2009, they've admitted that the current goal is to have their cake and eat it too. Basically, they want a 20ish female audience to continue watching the shows, but simultaneously, they want enough otaku fans to buy DVD/BDs.

What we see is watered down otaku content or spiced up mainstream-esque stuff (a recent exception was Hourou Musuko, which wasn't originally supposed to air on noitaminA. Aniplex cut a deal with Fuji when they realized that they couldn't market it through typical means). At any rate, selling the shows to otaku is a main goal.

.....which is precisely why they've struggled to find a receptive audience. That middle ground hasn't exactly been an enticing formula to either camps.

Quote:
apparently anohana has had strong otaku base due to the char designs. Other than that, I don't see it.
1. Moeblob character
2. Tatsuyuki Nagai's signature approach to moe facial expression (used in Toradora and Railgun, but not the distinctly josei H&C2)
3. Emo adolescent male lead + idealization of childhood
4. Simple melodrama and narrative with little sophistication (essentially what otaku authors thrive on)

I'd agree that compared to a lot of shows, the pandering is toned down to extend appeal to different demographics. However, it's undeniable that they cherry picked strong otaku selling points to cater to that audience. Judging by the instant success of the show, it worked brilliantly.

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Tatami Galaxy doesn't seem otaku to me. It seems perfect for the demo frankly.
I haven't seen Tatami Galaxy, but FWIW, it was a flop on noitaminA but a mild otaku hit on DVD/BD. The producers likely had some idea of who might want to collect the video releases.

If I had to guess, Tatami Galaxy possibly appealed to an "art house" segment of otaku - those who follow renowned directors, appreciate esoteric visual design, and study technique. OTOH, it was a turnoff to mainstream viewers, who didn't find the approach to be terribly interesting.
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Old 2011-06-27, 20:07   Link #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJR View Post

.....which is precisely why they've struggled to find a receptive audience. That middle ground hasn't exactly been an enticing formula to either camps.
Up until Anohana, I would have agreed with you. But Anohana seems to strongly suggest that the middle ground approach can work.

Well, unless you think Anohana is total otaku show (i.e. not even middle ground), with little appeal to the old Noitamina audience.
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Old 2011-06-27, 20:28   Link #746
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, unless you think Anohana is total otaku show (i.e. not even middle ground), with little appeal to the old Noitamina audience.
That's sort of my opinion. I see it as an otaku show that avoids extremes, but otherwise has little in common with the type of drama and characterization found in older noitaminA shows.

Aniplex is actually the main producer on Anohana (and they have master licensing rights), which makes me wonder whether it was even intended for noitaminA early on.
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Old 2011-06-27, 21:30   Link #747
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Or it suggests the corperate idea of the otaku demographic has widened to include more groups, both male and female.
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Old 2011-06-27, 21:57   Link #748
Suzuku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
I get C and to a certain extent Fractale.

Tatami Galaxy doesn't seem otaku to me. It seems perfect for the demo frankly. Otaku shows generally seem to be of a certain confined ilk, having some distinct type of story hook or character types denoting it. TG didn't seem to match any of the stuff you see topping Newtype or Animage polls.

I always did think Shiki was an odd choice, then again I haven't seen much of it.
Tatami Galaxy is what I consider a sakuga otaku anime. It's enjoyed by people because of the various artistic approaches to its animation and the unique style in which it tells its story. Normal people won't find it interesting, but those couple of otaku will, which is why it sold moderately well on DVD but had bad ratings. Basically, what TJR said.

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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
How is Shiki an "otaku" anime?
Vampire anime are typically only liked by otaku, which is partly why a show like Blood+ bombed in the Doroku timeslot but sold alright in discs (not near what's acceptable for Doroku/Nichigo, but decent for anime in general). Even if you don't consider Shiki an otaku show (which it is) it's obviously not intended for the young female demographic that noitaminA of old catered to, unless you want to use the NatsuxTouru implications as an argument.
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Old 2011-06-27, 22:11   Link #749
karice67
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Originally Posted by Suzuku View Post
Vampire anime are typically only liked by otaku, which is partly why a show like Blood+ bombed in the Doroku timeslot but sold alright in discs (not near what's acceptable for Doroku/Nichigo, but decent for anime in general). Even if you don't consider Shiki an otaku show (which it is) it's obviously not intended for the young female demographic that noitaminA of old catered to, unless you want to use the NatsuxTouru implications as an argument.
For me, the fact that the original story is by Ono Fuyumi (who also wrote 12 Kingdoms and Ghost Hunt) is a far more important factor in targeting the noitaminA audience. In accordance with her other works, I'd assume most people who have read/heard about her works would be more likely to call Shiki a psychological (thriller?) rather than a typical vampire anime (Blood+; Vampire Bund etc).

edit: though I just remembered, the NatsunoxTohru factor could have been a pretty big factor, considering what I read about the Shiki event a few months ago...

Dunno whether Fujisaki Ryu being the manga artist would have had any effect - though it did for me, given that Houshin Engi is one of my favourite manga.

-----

Come to think of it, if most of the AS viewers thought that Shiki was a vampire anime aimed at otaku audiences, it's no wonder they were disappointed!
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Last edited by karice67; 2011-06-27 at 23:48.
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Old 2011-06-28, 03:48   Link #750
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*2.9%(*3.4%) 05/25 (Wed) 7:27pm-7:55pm TV Tokyo Danbōru Senki
Wait, the word "Danbōru" is written as "Danball" in a more appropriate translation.
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Old 2011-06-28, 05:41   Link #751
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This article might shed some light on why the change in the target demographic was made

Key point
Quote:
The main target of Eden is the core anime fans, but we also carefully arranged the anime not to repel the young female viewers.
Much like TJR said, wanting to have their cake and eat it.
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Up until Anohana, I would have agreed with you. But Anohana seems to strongly suggest that the middle ground approach can work.
on paper, perhaps. But the reality is that Eden and AnoHana are hits that happen every blue moon. The slot has been doing worse ever since they started to compromise, mainly due to the wishy washy attitude taken with wanting to have everything, but also due to the lack of constancy between each program/season.
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
... with little appeal to the old Noitamina audience.
there is appeal for the old noitaminA viewers, but it's more clearly aimed to a different sort of audience.
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Originally Posted by MisaoFan View Post
Wait, the word "Danbōru" is written as "Danball" in a more appropriate translation.
I agree with that, since it seems that is the most used English translation.
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Old 2011-06-29, 01:02   Link #752
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but isnt Donburo like cardboard?
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Old 2011-07-04, 02:43   Link #753
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Old 2011-07-07, 23:16   Link #754
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Usagi Drop and No. 6's rating for the first episode was 1.2%...
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Old 2011-07-08, 00:35   Link #755
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The two shows aired 15 minutes later than usual, but this is clearly not an 'excuse' for the terrible number. UsaDro had such a satisfying first episode too.

Sorry for the lateness, I'll update the ratings for past weeks during this weekend.
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Old 2011-07-08, 16:35   Link #756
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Originally Posted by Suzuku View Post
Usagi Drop and No. 6's rating for the first episode was 1.2%...
Sigh... it seems the more I enjoy a Noitamina show, the more it bombs.
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Old 2011-07-08, 17:29   Link #757
Sides
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Sigh... it seems the more I enjoy a Noitamina show, the more it bombs.
Aren't those rating pretty decent? I mean both series are not broadcasted at a "normal times" where people flicking through channels will encounter them. You have to be either dedicated to stay up late or setup your dvr/pvr, but even then you need to know in the first instance that those shows are being broadcasted.
IMO some shows just have the wrong broadcasting time to be "successful", what ever that means.
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Old 2011-07-08, 19:37   Link #758
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Originally Posted by Sides View Post
Aren't those rating pretty decent? I mean both series are not broadcasted at a "normal times" where people flicking through channels will encounter them. You have to be either dedicated to stay up late or setup your dvr/pvr, but even then you need to know in the first instance that those shows are being broadcasted.
IMO some shows just have the wrong broadcasting time to be "successful", what ever that means.
NoitaminA's an exception,while it not exactly early,the slot isn't as late as others and it's goal is to attract viewers.
1.2% if it's the right number has to be a near all time low score for that slot that's been running for 6 years.

Which is a shame,both shows were quite good.
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Old 2011-07-08, 20:36   Link #759
Suzuku
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It's the second lowest behind Fractale/Horou Musuko's 0.9%.
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Old 2011-07-09, 04:56   Link #760
Sides
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NoitaminA's an exception,while it not exactly early,the slot isn't as late as others and it's goal is to attract viewers.
1.2% if it's the right number has to be a near all time low score for that slot that's been running for 6 years.

Which is a shame,both shows were quite good.
Is there a list of the average ratings of NoitaminA series?
I personally think that most of their series have a broader appeal, but broadcasting time is just not suited for them.
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