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Old 2012-06-27, 00:59   Link #1081
creb
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Are ratings really important for noitamina? I mean, wasn't the entire purpose of the block to air shows that wouldn't have had a shot on the other stations, specifically because they're not 'mass market'?

I mean, looking at the ratings posted earlier, I feel like one can assume a show like GC would have received far higher ratings if it had not been in the noitamina slot, while at the same time, one suspects GC got the slot because some bean counters thought it would bring the station more money than their more traditional fare.

From my perspective, the fact that GC didn't smash the noitamina ratings averages is a good thing, as it shows sacrificing their identity wasn't worth it. Assuming a ~2% rating is enough to keep the station afloat, of course. Meaning they can return and continue on with the shows they're known for.

TL;DR: One hopes shows like GC were an accounting experiment, and not indicative of the future direction of noitamina.
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Old 2012-06-27, 01:30   Link #1082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
Are ratings really important for noitamina? I mean, wasn't the entire purpose of the block to air shows that wouldn't have had a shot on the other stations, specifically because they're not 'mass market'?

I mean, looking at the ratings posted earlier, I feel like one can assume a show like GC would have received far higher ratings if it had not been in the noitamina slot, while at the same time, one suspects GC got the slot because some bean counters thought it would bring the station more money than their more traditional fare.

From my perspective, the fact that GC didn't smash the noitamina ratings averages is a good thing, as it shows sacrificing their identity wasn't worth it. Assuming a ~2% rating is enough to keep the station afloat, of course. Meaning they can return and continue on with the shows they're known for.

TL;DR: One hopes shows like GC were an accounting experiment, and not indicative of the future direction of noitamina.
That's exactly why ratings are important for noitamina. Noitamina based titles generally don't sell very well because (except recently) they aim at an audience that is outside your typical Japanese otaku crowd. If you have both poor sales and poor ratings, what will investors think of the timeslot? They will most likely pull out and stop funding, which will lead to the collapse of the timeslot.

Anime is a business afterall. Shows that are aimed at an otaku crowd expect or desire to have disc sales, whilst shows that air on noitamina, ytv or the "mainstream channels" rely more on TV viewership for advertising revenue. If noitamina stops getting moderate ratings and unless they decide to go all out targeting the Japanese Otaku crowd and go for the disc/merch sale approach, then unfortunately the timeslot will go bust.

Really, noitamina needs to decide. They need to stick with what they stood for traditionally and keep it that way whilst withstanding short-term losses (Really, the 'traditional audience' is pretty much non-existent now as they themselves know that the slot is no longer what it use to be. In other words, they lost confidence in the timeslot) or go fullout with targetting the Japanese Otakus.

Halfassing somewhere in between where they go half-half (one show "traditional", one show "otaku") or take a schizophrenic approach in one season where they go full out "traditional" with the following season going full out "otaku", is not gonna do much good for the slot.
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Old 2012-06-27, 01:44   Link #1083
Guardian Enzo
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I have a suspicion this block is going to do better than average in BD/DVD sales, by NoitaminA standards. And about a 50/50 split, especially for Sakamichi. Tsuritama will probably sell a few more Blu-rays.
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Old 2012-06-27, 01:56   Link #1084
cyth
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Well, they've been half-assing it for a while now. The timeslot was originally set up for Honey & Clover (which was something Shueisha wanted before Asmik did the live-action version) and continued the trend of anime aimed at women in their 20s. For some time, this was the official stance of its producers. Later on, they changed its direction to general audience, while still maintaining some connection to the former. So from that point onward, Noitamina has always been in this sort of transitional period, going from one target audience to the other, fluctuating between "josei" and general audience, and at the end turning to more sophisticated work, for the general anime fans (Eden of the East) and later on otaku (AnoHana).

But yes, lately they've been very schizophrenic about it. I kind of feel like they will eventually have to settle for otaku titles, because the market is dumb (and because they're half-assing the more important projects).
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Old 2012-06-27, 02:00   Link #1085
Guardian Enzo
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You know, I always hear AnoHana referred to as an otaku title and no doubt, otaku loved it. But for the life of me I can't figure out why it was so popular, and I mean that in a good way (I guess). I love the series, but it really doesn't have moe (much). It doesn't have an all-female cast or yuri subtext. It's basically an intensely character-driven series with a mix of subtle character development and very overt emotion. In short, it doesn't seem to hit any of the hot buttons that turn shows into big hits - but it was a big hit. Just what is it about AnoHana that makes it "otaku"?
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Old 2012-06-27, 02:18   Link #1086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
You know, I always hear AnoHana referred to as an otaku title and no doubt, otaku loved it. But for the life of me I can't figure out why it was so popular, and I mean that in a good way (I guess). I love the series, but it really doesn't have moe (much). It doesn't have an all-female cast or yuri subtext. It's basically an intensely character-driven series with a mix of subtle character development and very overt emotion. In short, it doesn't seem to hit any of the hot buttons that turn shows into big hits - but it was a big hit. Just what is it about AnoHana that makes it "otaku"?
Spoiler for Offtopic Anohana:


EDIT: Actually I just remembered Rainbow: Nisha Rokubou no Shichinin, so I take my comment back regarding best melodrama series in the last 3-4 years

It was a hybrid title, but most definitely had and was aimed at an otaku audience as well. Not saying this is necessarily a bad thing as Madoka and Steins Gate which were pretty much full-out otaku targeted are considered two of the best titles (which I agree with) of last year.

I am still skeptical on what Anohana means for the future of noitamina because it's mega success is both encouraging and concerning at the same time. It also confirms the "shizophrenic" approach that noitamina has been taking.
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Old 2012-06-27, 02:38   Link #1087
0utf0xZer0
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Like DemiSoda, I find the AnoHana/Key comparison and the idea Okada was going after Maeda's game enlightening. Particularly Air. Same supernatural plot hooks, same summery atmosphere, same quasi-Victorian "too good for this sinful earth" archetype for the female lead...
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Old 2012-06-27, 03:51   Link #1088
TJR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
Are ratings really important for noitamina? I mean, wasn't the entire purpose of the block to air shows that wouldn't have had a shot on the other stations, specifically because they're not 'mass market'?
In this case, the meaning of "mass market" is distorted. The otaku business is driven by a small number of people spending obscene amounts of money on their fandom. However, for noitaminA, the goal was to create a late night slot that could be sustained by a wider demographic. They didn't expect much in terms of DVD sales (the mass market isn't into $400+ DVD sets), but targeting 20-something women meant potential for a much larger viewership.

In short, the original business model revolved around high TV ratings (indicative of mainstream content) to avoid dependence on DVD sales (indicative of niche otaku content).

Quote:
I mean, looking at the ratings posted earlier, I feel like one can assume a show like GC would have received far higher ratings if it had not been in the noitamina slot
Generally, late night shows get negligible ratings, so Guilty Crown's performance was in line with typical otaku fare. Money is made on merchandise and not the TV broadcast.

Quote:
From my perspective, the fact that GC didn't smash the noitamina ratings averages is a good thing, as it shows sacrificing their identity wasn't worth it. Assuming a ~2% rating is enough to keep the station afloat, of course. Meaning they can return and continue on with the shows they're known for.
You're forgetting BD/DVD sales. Guilty Crown demonstrated that they're adjusting to an otaku-oriented strategy (the TV ratings don't matter) and have made some inroads into that market.

With Aniplex and Good Smile Company on board as major partners, you can bet that the future lies in home video and figures.

Quote:
Just what is it about AnoHana that makes it "otaku"?
There's a healthy dose of moe, IMO. Character-wise, the writer also minimized depth, opting to highlight a few quirky (and ultimately archetypical) traits. We don't see many sides to the characters, and they're written with just enough detail to give them purpose within the story.

An important aspect of otaku characterization is to avoid too much real-life sophistication, and Ano Hana struck an appealing balance.
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Old 2012-06-27, 09:22   Link #1089
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I could see Ano Hana being compared to the Key works (which I dislike) it does lay the melodrama on pretty thick & Menma at least feels like she could come from a Key work. She is stuck in a childish state, although of course there is a reason for that.

But the reason why I enjoyed it more than similar Otaku series is the other characters (including the other 2 girls) came off a bit more like real high school students with issues & less like checklist archetypes.
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Old 2012-06-27, 11:02   Link #1090
Guardian Enzo
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I think there's nothing mutually exclusive about drama and depth, and just because AnoHana had a lot of drama (you can call if "melo" if it makes you happy) doesn't mean there wasn't a lot of quite subtle character development. Because there was.

In any case, these seem more like criticisms of the show than explanations of its otaku appeal. FTR I don't really see it as all that similar to Maeda's overwrought and forced dramas.
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Old 2012-06-27, 13:44   Link #1091
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think there's nothing mutually exclusive about drama and depth, and just because AnoHana had a lot of drama (you can call if "melo" if it makes you happy) doesn't mean there wasn't a lot of quite subtle character development. Because there was.

In any case, these seem more like criticisms of the show than explanations of its otaku appeal. FTR I don't really see it as all that similar to Maeda's overwrought and forced dramas.
Well YMMV but I am not sure if I would call Ano Hana subtle, especially at the end. And I do see similarities with some of the Key visual novels which obviously are aimed at Otaku.

However saying something is aimed at Otaku does not translate to being bad or even something a more general audience can't enjoy. I expect Ano Hana has cross appeal hence its success.

And well I certainly wasn't trying to put the series down. After all I enjoyed it enough to purchase the series from NISA.
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Old 2012-06-27, 16:47   Link #1092
Triple_R
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Actually, I view AnoHana as the ideal show for modern noitaminA. It's the perfect "hybrid" show, for noitaminA's purposes. By that, I mean it's a show where otakus can feel "at home", but it's also a show where the traditional noitaminA audience can feel "at home". It has enough key elements for each group for both of them to feel pleased with it.

Of course, it's not every day that you can hit the demographic sweet spot, hence getting a home run like this. So "make more AnoHanas!" sounds great in theory, but would be harder to pull off in practice.
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Old 2012-06-27, 20:11   Link #1093
Atarashii
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フジコ (Lupin - Fujiko) 1.1

Lowest rating yet.
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Old 2012-06-27, 21:43   Link #1094
ZODDGUTS
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^ Not surprise.
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Old 2012-06-28, 03:07   Link #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Actually, I view AnoHana as the ideal show for modern noitaminA. It's the perfect "hybrid" show, for noitaminA's purposes. By that, I mean it's a show where otakus can feel "at tome", but it's also a show where the traditional noitaminA can feel "at home". It has enough key elements for each group for both of them to feel pleased with it.

Of course, it's not every day that you can hit the demographic sweet spot, hence getting a home run like this. So "make more AnoHanas!" sounds great in theory, but would be harder to pull off in practice.
In other words Anohana succeeded in tapping into a periphery demographic, in this case, imo, was initially aimed at the hardcore audience, but succeeded in getting mainstream appeal. Kind of like how K-on by accident tapped into the teenage girl market.

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Anohana got a live action sometime down the road. Would be perfect source material actually, albeit you would have to change the Menma character.

And yeh, making more Anohanas by coincidence is much harder said then done. In particular, I don't see Mari Okada writing another one in the near future given her power hungry attitude atm ...

Btw we should probably move this discussion to the noitamina thread...
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:17   Link #1096
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Agree, that pretty much sums up almost any entertainment success. Be it anime, manga, drama, movies, games, when you somehow able to tap into a demographic that weren't initially your target, you got the smash hit.

As for replicating that success? It easier said than done, and a lot of time it requires a bit of luck and timing as well.
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Old 2012-06-29, 03:05   Link #1097
Katapan
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noitaminA ratings up to 12/06/28:

Wk. 1Wk. 2Wk. 3Wk. 4Wk. 5Wk. 6Wk. 7Wk. 8Wk. 9Wk. 10Wk. 11Wk. 12Avg
Tatami Galaxy - House of Five Leaves -1.51.61.72.12.51.51.82.82.02.32.32.52.05
Moyashimon (drama) - Shiki3.42.42.62.32.72.32.62.52.92.02.5-2.56
Kuragehime - Shiki2.3-2.23.12.82.71.82.41.62.52.12.72.38
Fractale - Hourou Musuko1.91.81.62.1-1.52.11.91.81.30.92.51.76
[C] - AnoHana1.62.53.92.82.52.92.22.02.42.93.2-2.63
Usagi Drop - NO. 61.22.42.12.62.12.5-2.31.62.41.62.52.11
UN-GO - Guilty Crown2.62.41.32.72.61.82.01.92.01.73.0-2.18
Thermae Romae - Guilty Crown2.12.61.8---------2.17
Black★Rock Shooter - Guilty Crown---1.82.32.11.71.42.02.41.5-1.90
Kids on the Slope - Tsuritama2.62.32.32.11.71.52.10.91.71.51.62.51.90
Moyashimon Returns - Natsuyuki Rendez-vous

A fairly usual finale for the timeslot. Now to see if Moyashimon hasn't lost its magic (assuming that Natsuyuki doesn't kill the ratings on its own)...
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Old 2012-07-02, 11:01   Link #1098
Atarashii
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アンパン 3.5 (Anpanman)
コナン 8.6 (Conan)
ウチュウ 3.3 (Uchuu)
ハンター 4.3 (Hunter x Hunter)

ワンピ再 5.2 (OP rerun)
GOチャギントン 2.8 (Chuggington)
トリコ 6.8 (Toriko)
ワンピ 10.7 (OP)
チビマル 13.4 (Chibi)
サザエ 19.4 (Sazae)

ドラエモン 7.9 (Doraemon)
クレシン 9.7 (Shin-chan)
エリアノキシ 1.1 (Area no kishi)
セイントセイヤ 2.0 (SS Omega)
バトスピ 2.0 (Battle Spirits)
ゴーバス 3.9
フォーゼ 5.7
スマイルプリ 6.1 (Precure)
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Old 2012-07-02, 12:09   Link #1099
Guardian Enzo
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Still nothing on Ginga, eh?
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Old 2012-07-02, 14:04   Link #1100
SeijiSensei
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Mahou Showtime lists Ginga he Kickoff!! as carried by NHK BS Premium, NHK's pay-TV service. I wouldn't be surprised to discover it's not rated. I don't see any BS numbers on the Geocities site.
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