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Old 2013-06-01, 06:44   Link #81
tsunade666
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A new season of Railgun? really?

I stop caring for the franchise for sometime that I'm not updated on the news. I'm just waiting for the bd of the movie to be release.
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Old 2013-06-01, 08:11   Link #82
Westlo
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Re the Biblia dicussion, from where I'm reading Oricon do count it as an LN series, what they don't count is the Monogatari series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Index make up for that by selling more than double the total sales.

...Way more I believe.
I was too lazy too look up past figures, and knowing that both series had novels coming out near each other I thought I'll wait.

*1 118,015 118,015 2013/05/20 Koyomimonogatari
14 *14,902 146,213 2013/05/10 Toaru Majutsu no Index New Testament vol. 7

118k Vs 91k for opening week.

Bur I see the sales for 2012 on page 2 already covered which was selling better as of now anyway.
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Old 2013-06-01, 08:17   Link #83
Chaos2Frozen
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Key words in that quote of mine is total sales.

The Index series has sold 14 million books in total thus far.

EDIT:

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Old 2013-06-01, 08:25   Link #84
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Key words in that quote of mine is total sales.

The Index series has sold 14 million books in total thus far.
Of course it has sold more, it has way more novels released, so that goes without saying. I mean c'mon, you don't see someone go Anime series A sold 13 volumes x 10,000 so a better seller than anime series B which sold 6 volumes x 21,000.

And all Japanese companies used shipped numbers since sold to supplier = sold to them, but it doesn't mean sold to consumer. See manga circulation numbers, something like Assassination Classroom should be selling a million copies per volume but Oricon shows that vol 4 is going to finish around 650k at its current rate.

Don't you remember the Hidan no Aria website saying crap like 2 million sold when the anime started and Oricon had volume 1 at like 90k....
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Old 2013-06-01, 08:28   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Of course it has sold more, it has way more novels released, so that goes without saying. I mean c'mon, you don't see someone go Anime series A sold 13 volumes x 10,000 so a better seller than anime series B which sold 6 volumes x 21,000.
I didn't.

All I said was that it "make up for that by selling more than double the total sales".

I never said anything about which is better or worse.

In fact, the original topic you raised was who made the more money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Also Monogatari novels make more $$$ than Index, they sell about the same but for double the price nearly.
So did the price of the Monogatari novels make up for the 14 million books sold?

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
And all Japanese companies used shipped numbers since sold to supplier = sold to them, but it doesn't mean sold to consumer. See manga circulation numbers, something like Assassination Classroom should be selling a million copies per volume but Oricon shows that vol 4 is going to finish around 650k at its current rate.

Don't you remember the Hidan no Aria website saying crap like 2 million sold when the anime started and Oricon had volume 1 at like 90k....
By all means, use the total number of books shipped by the monogatari series then.

Otherwise, I'll be happy if you could provide a more accurate figure for the sales of both series.
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Old 2013-06-01, 08:35   Link #86
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I didn't.

All I said was that it "make up for that by selling more than double the total sales".

I never said anything about which is better or worse.
And how has it sold more than double the total sales? By having double the novels released?

Quote:
In fact, the original topic you raised was who made the more money.

So did the price of the Monogatari novels make up for the 14 million books sold?
And if the Monogatari series has "shipped" 7 million copies than yes the double price has made up for it.

It's a wash, lets go to the anime for the tiebreaker than, oh wait lol nevermind.

Edit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Otherwise, I'll be happy if you could provide a more accurate figure for the sales of both series.
We already are using more accurate figures.

11, 265,953 Monogatari Series: Second Season Koimonogatari
13, 256,812 Toaru Majutsu no Index: New Testament vol.3

*1 118,015 118,015 2013/05/20 Koyomimonogatari
14 *14,902 146,213 2013/05/10 Toaru Majutsu no Index New Testament vol. 7

Oricon duh.
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Old 2013-06-01, 08:41   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
And how has it sold more than double the total sales? By having double the novels released?
Hey if monogatari's author can write that fast then more power to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
And if the Monogatari series has "shipped" 7 million copies than yes the double price has made up for it.
Except it didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
It's a wash, lets go to the anime for the tiebreaker than, oh wait lol nevermind.
Irrelevant, we're talking about Light Novel sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post

We already are using more accurate figures.

11, 265,953 Monogatari Series: Second Season Koimonogatari
13, 256,812 Toaru Majutsu no Index: New Testament vol.3

*1 118,015 118,015 2013/05/20 Koyomimonogatari
14 *14,902 146,213 2013/05/10 Toaru Majutsu no Index New Testament vol. 7

Oricon duh.
Total sales of the entire series.
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Old 2013-06-01, 09:03   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Hey if monogatari's author can write that fast then more power to him.
You mean Index's author don't you? And Nisio does write fast, he released a novel a month for Katanagatari... he just doesn't focus on one series.

Yes, thanks for a japanese site which could be a fan compiled list for all I know. (do the sources all use shipped numbers or do some used oricon and other shipped, pointless if you can't answer that). Only Monogatari I see is season 1's 5 novels. I guess their publisher is too ashamed to flood the channels like they're the LN equivalent of Namco Bandai or something.

Quote:
Total sales of the entire series.
Yes because we all have time to track down Oricon figures for over 45 light novel releases spread out over nearly a decade. Aint nobody got time for dat

You should probably ignore Oricon for the rest of the year because one series is only going to get stronger while the other one tries to maintain a level that's far below what it established earlier.
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Old 2013-06-01, 09:12   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
You mean Index's author don't you? And Nisio does write fast, he released a novel a month for Katanagatari... he just doesn't focus on one series.
Kamachi has 4 series to write about now, while at the same time still maintaining 3 volumes per year for Index.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Yes, thanks for a japanese site which could be a fan compiled list for all I know. (do the sources all use shipped numbers or do some used oricon and other shipped, pointless if you can't answer that). Only Monogatari I see is season 1's 5 novels. I guess their publisher is too ashamed to flood the channels like they're the LN equivalent of Namco Bandai or something.
I don't see you stepping up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Yes because we all have time to track down Oricon figures for over 45 light novel releases spread out over nearly a decade. Aint nobody got time for dat

You should probably ignore Oricon for the rest of the year because one series is only going to get stronger while the other one tries to maintain a level that's far below what it established earlier.
Quite frankly you seem to be the one more irritated about this than me.

Your entire agenda is to push the notion that the monogatari books makes more money than Index. But you seem hellbent on ignoring the fact that when it comes to sales, quantity is just as important a factor as price.

Also, I don't follow the Monogatari series and I have no idea why you're confident enough to make an arrogant declaration like that, but if this is some kind of flamebait tactic I would advice you to stop while you're still ahead.
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Old 2013-06-01, 09:55   Link #90
Goldzero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
I'm pretty sure J.C. staff subtly let out in an interview yesterday that they are planning ahead for Railgun season 3 in doing Railgun S. Knowing this means we will probably see Index III and Railgun D (DD for Misaki) right after it in not too much time which should be nice. I feel like Index will be much more powerful after the first part of the main series is animated. When it is going to be animated, that will be really amazing. I'm really excited for this.
i just hope it can help boost sales for index. im still satisfied with index sales(seeing how probably 90-95% light novels don't tend to sell as well let alone make 150k which index is about to do). plus when index season 3 comes out means less volumes they would have to read and have more "motivation" to read the series and follow the franchise. btw do you mean literally railgun 3 or index 3 by any chance? i just think you might have mistaken it which is why i brought this up. plus if they are doing index 3 it be good since with the amount of budget we have(thank you index base movie and you very loyal fans) the animation and quality should sky-rocket like in railgun S,including better animated fights as well. after the past 2 years i beleive jc staff would be able to make index 3 good "if" they plan to make a index season 4 where they would not cramp in the whole 8-9 novels in one series and actually plan how to fit at least 4 volumes or 5 in one series.

Last edited by Goldzero; 2013-06-01 at 10:14.
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Old 2013-06-01, 10:38   Link #91
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I think unnecessary this comparison between sales of the last volumes of Index and Koyomimonogatari, volume 7 sold 91k in three days, and sales Koyomimonogatari is 7 days if I am not wrong.
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Old 2013-06-01, 11:53   Link #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post

Your entire agenda is to push the notion that the monogatari books makes more money than Index. But you seem hellbent on ignoring the fact that when it comes to sales, quantity is just as important a factor as price.

Also, I don't follow the Monogatari series and I have no idea why you're confident enough to make an arrogant declaration like that, but if this is some kind of flamebait tactic I would advice you to stop while you're still ahead.

What we're comparing here is, which series generate more sales so let's do an approximation calculation(we're only talking about sales mind you, not profit, since we have to talk about cost when we're talking profit).

Monogatari series has 13 book currently total while Index has 28 books(for argument sake, let's not include the 2 SS volumes), that means Index has modifier of 28/13 = 2.15 here. Now for price, I'm taking one title each, Koyomimonogatari is priced 1600 yen in Kinokuniya book store, while NT Index 7 is priced 670 Yen in Kinokuniya so, the price multiplier is 670/1600 = 0.42.

Since Total Sales = Price x total books x number of book sold, let's multiply the multiplier to see the average number of sales multiplier. So by this calculation, to make the total sales in yen the same for both monogatari series and Index, Monogatari series only need to sell 2.15x0.42 times than index book per volume, which amounts to 0.9 times index series per volume sales.

Sorry Chaos, I have to agree with Westlo on this one that Monogatari series generate more sales revenue than Index(again, not profit, since we haven't calculate the cost, although usually more volume mean more cost from printing and advertising so if I have to take a bet, I'll bet that Monogatari series has less cost in total), because I don't think Monogatari series on average sold less than 0.9 times of Index series. The price of each book is the killer here. Monogatari on average sold between 1300 yen - 1600 yen, which is more than twice(sometimes even thrice) than Index book price. Index is by no means no slouch though. Having stable 130k-150k sales per book is quite an achievement for a series that's aimed only for a particular demographic.

tl;dr : based on approximation calculation, it seems Monogatari series generate more total sales revenue than Index series. Biblia is still the best though, 4 million sales in 4 volume :hoho:
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Old 2013-06-01, 16:53   Link #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
What we're comparing here is, which series generate more sales so let's do an approximation calculation(we're only talking about sales mind you, not profit, since we have to talk about cost when we're talking profit).

Monogatari series has 13 book currently total while Index has 28 books(for argument sake, let's not include the 2 SS volumes), that means Index has modifier of 28/13 = 2.15 here. Now for price, I'm taking one title each, Koyomimonogatari is priced 1600 yen in Kinokuniya book store, while NT Index 7 is priced 670 Yen in Kinokuniya so, the price multiplier is 670/1600 = 0.42.

Since Total Sales = Price x total books x number of book sold, let's multiply the multiplier to see the average number of sales multiplier. So by this calculation, to make the total sales in yen the same for both monogatari series and Index, Monogatari series only need to sell 2.15x0.42 times than index book per volume, which amounts to 0.9 times index series per volume sales.

Sorry Chaos, I have to agree with Westlo on this one that Monogatari series generate more sales revenue than Index(again, not profit, since we haven't calculate the cost, although usually more volume mean more cost from printing and advertising so if I have to take a bet, I'll bet that Monogatari series has less cost in total), because I don't think Monogatari series on average sold less than 0.9 times of Index series. The price of each book is the killer here. Monogatari on average sold between 1300 yen - 1600 yen, which is more than twice(sometimes even thrice) than Index book price. Index is by no means no slouch though. Having stable 130k-150k sales per book is quite an achievement for a series that's aimed only for a particular demographic.

tl;dr : based on approximation calculation, it seems Monogatari series generate more total sales revenue than Index series. Biblia is still the best though, 4 million sales in 4 volume :hoho:
if you don't mind me asking what are the best selling light novels at this moment(and i be grateful if you put them in order "including index") thank you.
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Old 2013-06-01, 18:04   Link #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Re the Biblia dicussion, from where I'm reading Oricon do count it as an LN series, what they don't count is the Monogatari series.
Incorrect. Look at the rankings when divided into "bunko" (overall paperback sales) and "light novel" categories. As stated earlier, all light novels are paperback books, thus they're put out in the weekly "paperback" rankings, but all paperback books are not light novels. The only dedicated light novel rankings are sent out twice a year at most. Edit: In addition, the -monogatari series are classified as general books, not paperbacks.

Also I find it humorous you're comparing amount made based off of Oricon estimates from ~1400 bookstores instead of the publisher numbers. If I cared about how the publishers are actually making money from a title, I'd go with the amount they get paid for (amount shipped) rather than the amount the customers pay for (amount estimated from Oricon). In reality, the numbers reported from the publisher are the amount in print, not the amount sold to distributors. They'll never perfectly match the Oricon "estimates" even if Oricon was 100% accurate.
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Old 2013-06-01, 21:08   Link #95
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A new season of Railgun? really?

I stop caring for the franchise for sometime that I'm not updated on the news. I'm just waiting for the bd of the movie to be release.
Railgun S is already doing pretty amazingly... So why not see Daihasesai arc animated? The Daihasesai arc is pretty amazing... and kind of near the same emotional level as the sisters arc...

And yes, I can't wait to see the movie when it comes out as well.
Also, the thing about Railgun D (I made up the name Railgun D) is that it will animate some more of the level 5's. I'm saying it's probably going to be called that lol. I didn't mean to make it sound like it was exactly official yet.
In an interview they said they were planning ahead with Misaki for when they would animate her later.
Since
Spoiler:
I assume/conclude they are planning ahead for season 3.
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Old 2013-06-02, 05:55   Link #96
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Originally Posted by ultimatemegax View Post

Also I find it humorous you're comparing amount made based off of Oricon estimates from ~1400 bookstores instead of the publisher numbers. If I cared about how the publishers are actually making money from a title, I'd go with the amount they get paid for (amount shipped) rather than the amount the customers pay for (amount estimated from Oricon). In reality, the numbers reported from the publisher are the amount in print, not the amount sold to distributors. They'll never perfectly match the Oricon "estimates" even if Oricon was 100% accurate.
Hmmm.. I'm not too familiar with book publishing business, so it's the book store that has to took on the overstocking risk, not the publisher? So when publishers ship something to the bookstores, the bookstores don't have the option to return the overstock book to, let's say... 80% of the price to the publisher? Because if that is so, opening a bookstore is a lot more riskier than opening a normal distribution business, because in normal distribution business, usually there's an option to return the overstocked goods for less amount, if the item is still in good condition that is(at least in my country that's how it goes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldzero View Post
if you don't mind me asking what are the best selling light novels at this moment(and i be grateful if you put them in order "including index") thank you.
Chaos should know more about this than me since I don't care that much about sales except that my favourite series get enough sales so the publisher won't cut the series Beside, the light novel category itself is pretty sketchy(as in it's still not clear which series is considered light novel).
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Old 2013-06-02, 10:53   Link #97
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isnt biblia pretty much number one right now?

by the way...i hope the success of this, the movie, railgun S (hope) pave way to index 3 soon, as soon as winter?
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Old 2013-06-02, 11:12   Link #98
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I doubt Winter...earliest would be next Spring or maybe they'll wait until Fall 2014.

Anyway, as for novel sales, I'm really pleased with how it's doing even though an Index anime isn't airing right now. We've seen with Oreimo, Shana, ZnT, and other series that sales tank hard after the anime has been off for a while. Even though Index sales have slowed from what they were last year/2011 with books selling in the mid-high 200k range it's still awesome to see that the fanbase is so strong it can retain 150k on Oricon without an anime running.
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Old 2013-06-02, 11:13   Link #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
isnt biblia pretty much number one right now?

by the way...i hope the success of this, the movie, railgun S (hope) pave way to index 3 soon, as soon as winter?
Biblia number 1 in what? It's not a light novel, so it's not top there (right now I'd say Sword Art Online has the most momentum, but sales/print numbers per volume still haven't topped Haruhi). Paperback books? Last year Keigo Higashino sold more paperbacks than En Mikami (Biblia's author), though Biblia had the highest selling paperback book overall. Please clarify your statement.

I wouldn't expect Index III until next spring at the earliest. Putting it in Autumn would be five straight cours of the franchise, enough to reduce sales. Winter is unlikely since it's a notable franchise and those typically air in Spring/Autumn seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzuku View Post
Anyway, as for novel sales, I'm really pleased with how it's doing even though an Index anime isn't airing right now. We've seen with Oreimo, Shana, ZnT, and other series that sales tank hard after the anime has been off for a while. Even though Index sales have slowed from what they were last year/2011 with books selling in the mid-high 200k range it's still awesome to see that the fanbase is so strong it can retain 150k on Oricon without an anime running.
Last time Railgun aired, it led to a continued increase in Index LN pressings:
Index anime starts:
2008/08 | *320万部 | 17巻 | 18.8万部/巻 | とある魔術の禁書目録
2008/11 | *440万部 | 18巻 | 24.4万部/巻 | とある魔術の禁書目録
Index anime ends:
2009/03 | *467万部 | 18巻 | 25.9万部/巻 | とある魔術の禁書目録
2009/07 | *520万部 | 19巻 | 27.4万部/巻 | とある魔術の禁書目録
Railgun anime starts:
2009/11 | *750万部 | 22巻 | 34.1万部/巻 | とある魔術の禁書目録
Railgun anime ends:
2010/05 | *770万部 | 22巻 | 35.0万部/巻 | とある魔術の禁書目録
2010/08 | 1000万部 | 23巻 | 39.1万部/巻 | とある魔術の禁書目録
Index II starts...

This time, there's no big increase in pressings with a currently airing anime and a just-released movie. LN sales appear to have saturated at their current level of 150k.
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Last edited by ultimatemegax; 2013-06-02 at 11:44.
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Old 2013-06-02, 11:15   Link #100
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Originally Posted by Suzuku View Post
I doubt Winter...earliest would be next Spring or maybe they'll wait until Fall 2014.

Anyway, as for novel sales, I'm really pleased with how it's doing even though an Index anime isn't airing right now. We've seen with Oreimo, Shana, ZnT, and other series that sales tank hard after the anime has been off for a while. Even though Index sales have slowed from what they were last year/2011 with books selling in the mid-high 200k range it's still awesome to see that the fanbase is so strong it can retain 150k on Oricon without an anime running.
You know, they might already be working on it. It's possible, but better quality/more time spent is fine... I gues...
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