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Old 2013-10-27, 00:24   Link #181
Destined_Fate
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Well, L-Elf would also mirror what happened to Heero which is a strong female lead changing him and causing him to "feel" things again. Funny thing is that Shoko also ends up a leader of an entire Nation/Kingdom like Relena.

I'm sure Relena and Shoko would be great friends if they ever met.
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Old 2013-10-27, 00:30   Link #182
KleenexGhost
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Well in terms of that I would think Lise would make more sense.

Also like Kurohane and Irenesharda said, sources said we'll see him in a new light. By finding out more about his motivations and backstory we'll hopefully understand him more.
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Old 2013-10-27, 00:48   Link #183
Irenesharda
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Well, L-Elf would also mirror what happened to Heero which is a strong female lead changing him and causing him to "feel" things again. Funny thing is that Shoko also ends up a leader of an entire Nation/Kingdom like Relena.

I'm sure Relena and Shoko would be great friends if they ever met.
Ugh.....please...never ever compare Shoko and L-elf with Heero and Relena. Heero is my second most hated Gundam male MC after Kamille, and Relena is my most hated female Gundam character ever. I cannot stand either of them. I have better respect for Shoko then to ever wish Relena on her.
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Old 2013-10-27, 01:01   Link #184
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Funny you say that. When I started watching Gundam Wing, Heero was my favorite out of the pilots. But as the series went on I ended up liking Duo and Quatre more because of their personalities. Trowa too, he was pretty cool.

@Irenesharda Why don't you like Heero, Relena and Kamille? Please give a list of your most hated Gundam MC's. I'm curious, I've got a few I don't like myself. lol
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Old 2013-10-27, 01:45   Link #185
Irenesharda
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Funny you say that. When I started watching Gundam Wing, Heero was my favorite out of the pilots. But as the series went on I ended up liking Duo and Quatre more because of their personalities. Trowa too, he was pretty cool.

@Irenesharda Why don't you like Heero, Relena and Kamille? Please give a list of your most hated Gundam MC's. I'm curious, I've got a few I don't like myself. lol
Weirdly, many like the pair since Gundam Wing was the introduction Gundam anime for many an American anime viewer. I didn't really enjoy Wing that much, mostly on account of Relena, but it's okay.

As for my most hated Gundam MC's, there's really not many of them. Most range from passable to good. My favorite is Amuro, my most hated is Kamille. Actually let me take back what I said. I don't hate Heero as much as I hated Shinn, but Shinn was really just Kamille 2.0, so yeah, they are almost equal in my hate. So, to put them in order it would be Kamille, Shinn, Heero, Shiro, most of the MCs from AGE, Kira for a lot of the first part of Seed, and Loran.

Most females in Gundam are pretty forgettable, but I will also amend my statement and say that Relena is tied for my most hated female character with Flay. My favorite female character is Sayla.

As for why I don't like Heero or Relena? Relena I find to be a self-righteous, peace-loving idiot that's a spoiled brat, I don't care how many times the show tries to tell me other wise. They try to make her into the pre-Lacus Clyne, but it just doesn't work, and her preachy, "I know better than everyone else", and "peace is always the answer" attitude annoyed the crap out of me.

Heero, isn't really as bad as her in comparison, I just find him really boring, almost boring to a fault. And what good and interesting qualities he had about him, are taken away as he is brainwashed by her sanctimonious highness Relena. So, for being so weak against such an infuriating female creature, Heero has earned his spot on my list.

As to my favorite character period, it would be Char Aznable. My most hated character period is a tie between Kamille and Flay.
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Old 2013-10-27, 02:03   Link #186
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Heero, isn't really as bad as her in comparison, I just find him really boring, almost boring to a fault. And what good and interesting qualities he had about him, are taken away as he is brainwashed by her sanctimonious highness Relena. So, for being so weak against such an infuriating female creature, Heero has earned his spot on my list.
That's kinda how I feel about L-Elf at the moment. He's boring to me. Like Heero, he has interesting things about him, like him being willing to kill. In fact one of the most satisfying moments in the series for me was seeing Cain take him to school. Now what you said about Relena and what she did to Heero's character is what I fear will happen to L-Elf if they try to make him and Shoko get all rabu-rabu.

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As to my favorite character period, it would be Char Aznable. My most hated character period is a tie between Kamille and Flay.
Can never go with the Red Comet, but my favorite character is Graham Aker. Probably my favorite Yuichi Nakamura performance as well. My most hated, well Flay is up there, but Quess takes the cake for me.
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Old 2013-10-27, 05:05   Link #187
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Now what you said about Relena and what she did to Heero's character is what I fear will happen to L-Elf if they try to make him and Shoko get all rabu-rabu.
My memory must be rusty but I don't remember Relena changing Heero all that much. His way of thinking may have changed a bit but it's not like his personality did a 180.
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Old 2013-10-27, 11:55   Link #188
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My memory must be rusty but I don't remember Relena changing Heero all that much. His way of thinking may have changed a bit but it's not like his personality did a 180.
What I meant by that is that L-Elf can show more of his human side. What I said earlier is just a personal worry I have about his character.
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Old 2013-10-27, 12:13   Link #189
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I think we can get a change in L-Elf, this is not Gundam xD. The boy has to suffer a break point and does not have to be by Princess, here you can play many factors.

Haruto, Saki, Shoko can be agents of change or approach a possible metamorphosis. For the moment I prefer to enjoy the show and the surprises that await me
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Old 2013-10-27, 12:32   Link #190
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I'm not saying he can't change, I just want whatever changes he may get to make sense.

I agree with you on what you said about Haruto, Shoko or Saki being able to bring out new sides of him. I do think at the moment Lise is going to be the most likely to make him feel something. I do hope she is more than just a character whose purpose is to die in order to develop L-Elf.
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Old 2013-10-27, 14:30   Link #191
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That's kinda how I feel about L-Elf at the moment. He's boring to me. Like Heero, he has interesting things about him, like him being willing to kill. In fact one of the most satisfying moments in the series for me was seeing Cain take him to school. Now what you said about Relena and what she did to Heero's character is what I fear will happen to L-Elf if they try to make him and Shoko get all rabu-rabu.
The difference between Heero and L-elf to me, strangely enough is his personality and a better backstory. Heero was a cold, emo soldier, but most of the time he never really went beyond that. Even when they tried to give him a bit of backstory, it fell through, and his other co-MCs became more interesting in comparison. L-elf also reminds me a lot of Lelouch who was one of my favorite mecha characters ever. I have an attraction to guys with strong intellects, so characters like Lelouch, Light, and L-elf are right up my alley (though Light eventually crossed the line into psychotic, but that's neither here nor there.

L-elf seems to exude more than just the cold soldier. He is also very resourceful, very smart, and actually can understand others if he wishes to. You know there is more there to him as well. I guess, you can say, to me, he is a more three-dimensional character than Heero was.
As to why he makes this series for me? I am sick and tired of all the preachy, whiny, pacifist MCs in my war drama mecha series. I enjoy characters that are intelligent, are willing to do what must be done, don't cry and complain every time they kill someone, and understands the harshness of war. Without L-elf (and the awesome writing and plot twists), Valvrave would seem like every other mecha anime out there. Haruto is an okay MC, he's passable, but I like L-elf more as a character.

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Can never go with the Red Comet, but my favorite character is Graham Aker. Probably my favorite Yuichi Nakamura performance as well. My most hated, well Flay is up there, but Quess takes the cake for me.
Well, Graham was just another of the countless Char Clones that can be found in Gundam and other mecha series. Though as Char Clones go, he was a good one. Honestly, strangely enough, Milliardo was my favorite, until I watched the original Gundam series and was introduced to Char for the first time. And ever since, nothing can live up to the original....

I cannot yet judge Quess, since I haven't finished Char's Counterattack yet, however, I can already tell she's going to be joining my hate list. She reminds me of a female version of Kamille, and anything that reminds me of him, is very bad.

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My memory must be rusty but I don't remember Relena changing Heero all that much. His way of thinking may have changed a bit but it's not like his personality did a 180.
Well, he didn't have that much of a personality to change, my main gripe was she took a talented, cold, soldier pilot and turned him into a pacifist emo schoolboy that happened to pilot a Gundam.

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I'm not saying he can't change, I just want whatever changes he may get to make sense.

I agree with you on what you said about Haruto, Shoko or Saki being able to bring out new sides of him. I do think at the moment Lise is going to be the most likely to make him feel something. I do hope she is more than just a character whose purpose is to die in order to develop L-Elf.
I think L-elf will change, but I don't think it will be to the extent that others would want. He's not going to be a joking, playing student like the rest of them, he's seen too much and he has too much blood on his hands for that. However, he might become a bit softer towards those he chooses to allow to be close to him, and he might open up one in a blue moon. However, I think there's too much soldier in him to ever become anything close to a civilian again. Haruto's a maybe, but L-elf mostly thinks of him as a naive child much of the time. Shoko's not around and so far shows no signs of showing up anytime soon, and Saki hasn't really interacted with him much yet. My bet will probably be on Lieselotte, whenever she decides she wants to show up.
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Old 2013-10-27, 15:42   Link #192
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I think L-elf will change, but I don't think it will be to the extent that others would want. He's not going to be a joking, playing student like the rest of them, he's seen too much and he has too much blood on his hands for that. However, he might become a bit softer towards those he chooses to allow to be close to him, and he might open up one in a blue moon. However, I think there's too much soldier in him to ever become anything close to a civilian again. Haruto's a maybe, but L-elf mostly thinks of him as a naive child much of the time. Shoko's not around and so far shows no signs of showing up anytime soon, and Saki hasn't really interacted with him much yet. My bet will probably be on Lieselotte, whenever she decides she wants to show up.
@ The bolded, that's what I meant when I said we'll see L-Elf in a new light. I know he'll never be "normal." But he'll likely develop sympathy & understanding towards the others. He won't show how he feels on the exterior, but there will definitely be a major change on the inside.

The statement I made about "tsundere" L-Elf was not to be taken 100% seriously, but looking at it from a sensible PoV, he will in some ways become a tsundere, just not the comedic schoolgirl/girl in love type...XD

Eg. He'll worry about his new comrades, but when asked about it, he'll probably deny it, etc...

I see L-Elf as becoming something like Kiritsugu Emiya (Fate series). He'll become "soft" towards those he cares about, but is still the same ruthless badass we all know & love to those he dgaf about.
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Old 2013-10-27, 16:03   Link #193
Destined_Fate
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Well, Lise has only served one role so far in the series and that was to develop L-Elf. So if she died to develop L-Elf more than it wouldn't be out of character or out of her role we've already had her doing.

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Well in terms of that I would think Lise would make more sense.

Also like Kurohane and Irenesharda said, sources said we'll see him in a new light. By finding out more about his motivations and backstory we'll hopefully understand him more.
Lise isn't a main character though and she was a Princess from day one. Shoko follows Relena in that she takes control of an entire nation. Though unlike Relena it wasn't her birthright that gave her that position though she did follow in her father's footsteps in the position of Prime Minister even if the Nations are different.

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Ugh.....please...never ever compare Shoko and L-elf with Heero and Relena. Heero is my second most hated Gundam male MC after Kamille, and Relena is my most hated female Gundam character ever. I cannot stand either of them. I have better respect for Shoko then to ever wish Relena on her.
Well, the similarities are there and many know Heero and Relena because Wing was such a huge hit in the west and well received in the east too. So even if you may not like either at least it's a good comparison as it may get fans of Heero and Relena interested in Valvrave through L-Elf and Shoko.

And by Heero and Relena, I'm talking about the TV/Movie version, not the FT version which is far less known and liked.
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Old 2013-10-27, 17:38   Link #194
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Lise isn't a main character though and she was a Princess from day one. Shoko follows Relena in that she takes control of an entire nation. Though unlike Relena it wasn't her birthright that gave her that position though she did follow in her father's footsteps in the position of Prime Minister even if the Nations are different.
I don't think Lise not being a main character has anything to do with how she'll effect L-elf. Also, if you haven't noticed, Shoko's character has taken a giant step back this season so far and despite her still being featured in the OP and ED, she's slowly taking a more supportive role this time around. I don't know if she will interact enough with L-elf for it to make much impact. And he didn't think twice about killing Marie, which would have stuck a fork in any sort of good will coming from Shoko.


Quote:
Well, the similarities are there and many know Heero and Relena because Wing was such a huge hit in the west and well received in the east too. So even if you may not like either at least it's a good comparison as it may get fans of Heero and Relena interested in Valvrave through L-Elf and Shoko.

And by Heero and Relena, I'm talking about the TV/Movie version, not the FT version which is far less known and liked.
I never liked either of them in any version I've seen or read, and I think that any similarities are superficial at best. I think Shoko and L-elf are much better characters than either Relena or Heero. I'd follow Shoko any day over Relena. At least Shoko eventually realized that she was in a war and that she needed to set up a realistic country that could stand up against Dorssia, not some idealistic, pacifistic dream world.

But that's just my opinion, I just can't compare those two couples against each other.
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Old 2013-10-27, 20:19   Link #195
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I think L-elf will change, but I don't think it will be to the extent that others would want. He's not going to be a joking, playing student like the rest of them, he's seen too much and he has too much blood on his hands for that.
I'd love to know where you've seen these sentiments. People seem interested in having him open up to others but straight up becoming like one of the other students? That's new to me.

Unless you're talking about the people who want Shoko/Haruto/Saki/Liese etc. to melt his heart which isn't really the same thing anyway.

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Old 2013-10-27, 21:08   Link #196
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Who knows, Haruto may have to resort to singing a cool island song to melt his icy heart.

...But then L-Elf would just call him an idiot for trying to melt ice with a cool song.

Poor, poor Haruto.
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Old 2013-10-27, 21:23   Link #197
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I'd love to know where you've seen these sentiments. People seem interested in having him open up to others but straight up becoming like one of the other students? That's new to me.

Unless you're talking about the people who want Shoko/Haruto/Saki/Liese etc. to melt his heart which isn't really the same thing anyway.
It's mostly all the shippers on this and other sites, and I am exaggerating a little, but I guess I'm just kind of scared that they might do to this character in this show, what I've actually seen done to others.
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Old 2013-11-07, 18:00   Link #198
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Poor L-elf...he really wants to pilot a VVV. I used to think that he would be satisfied with being the tactician, but I guess not. I felt kind of bad for him when Haruto was yelling at him for not understanding his feelings. It must make L-elf feel powerless and frustrated knowing that he can't pilot a VVV when he's willing to give up his life for it, yet Haruto is given that chance and was too scared to get in the robot (at the moment) because he didn't want to lose his memories and life.
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Old 2013-11-07, 18:24   Link #199
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^Yeah please going around and asked any ordinary high school kids that if they want to lose their memory and life and then tell me how will they react. It said that in the Karlstern Agency the student are taught mental control, L-elf learned to not fear death and also because he a experienced soldier and you are expecting a normal student like Haruto to be fine with it?
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Old 2013-11-07, 18:38   Link #200
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^Yeah please going around and asked any ordinary high school kids that if they want to lose their memory and life and then tell me how will they react. It said that in the Karlstern Agency the student are taught mental control, L-elf learned to not fear death and also because he a experienced soldier and you are expecting a normal student like Haruto to be fine with it?
Sorry, I should have been more specific on mentioning that I found it pretty sad for L-elf because he's willing to give up anything in order to pilot a VVV. I just used Haruto since he was there at the moment and because he was telling L-elf how he didn't understand his feelings. Of course, Haruto was saying this without knowing that L-elf is also being affected as well; Pino herself tells L-elf "will eventually lose memories. Lose life."

Also, Haruto isn't an ordinary high school student anymore. He's a soldier fighting in a war, in which he should know the consequences of. Also, Haruto has said (more than once) that he will bear this curse on his own, yet as soon as he finds out what happened to Marie he starts hesitating?
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