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Old 2013-12-05, 13:44   Link #861
KleenexGhost
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Originally Posted by MeggieMay View Post
The thing about Shouko is there really are ways for her to turn around and redeem herself. Let's not forget that she is a candidate for Valvrave pilot and she needs to redeem her sorry self at this point. Even if they don't got that route, there are other route open here. To toss out Shouko completely at this point seems to be a waste to me.
Agreed. There are ways for her to redeem herself. Did she show any remorse for her actions this episode?
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Old 2013-12-05, 13:53   Link #862
MeggieMay
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Agreed. There are ways for her to redeem herself. Did she show any remorse for her actions this episode?
Crunchyroll delayed this episode so I've yet to see it . The main thing I've picked up from the Ep 9 thread is she's alive and on the same ship as Satomi, the blond girl, and the remaining students. I looked at a link to the next episode previews and they only cover L Elf and Haruto's situation so it's not clear if they'll deal with Shouko at all next week.
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Old 2013-12-05, 14:12   Link #863
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Spoiler for ep 21, guess I'll still put in under the tag for now, even though no one else is? Better safe than sorry. Response to all the above:
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Old 2013-12-05, 14:14   Link #864
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Spoiler for episode 21:
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Old 2013-12-05, 14:22   Link #865
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Spoiler for Episode 21:
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Old 2013-12-05, 14:49   Link #866
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Old 2013-12-05, 14:57   Link #867
LostSome
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You guys are sure hard on Shoko...
She was ready to give Haruto a chance if only he remembered that very important memory of them, but he couldn`t...
She doesn`t know of the memory eating, so her conclusion was that the person in front of her wasn`t her Haruto.
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Old 2013-12-05, 15:04   Link #868
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The memory loss thing makes sense in that the Curse not only changes a person but it makes you forget who you "used" to be as you become someone else entirely. Eventually there may be no Haruto left just like how Marie is no longer around as what made Marie, "Marie" is gone and just an empty husk remains.

Shoko isn't wrong if she believes that this isn't Haruto since as things stand now Haruto isn't fully "Haruto" anymore and has started becoming someone who she doesn't recognize and scares her.
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Old 2013-12-05, 16:28   Link #869
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You guys are sure hard on Shoko...
She was ready to give Haruto a chance if only he remembered that very important memory of them, but he couldn`t...
She doesn`t know of the memory eating, so her conclusion was that the person in front of her wasn`t her Haruto.
No, I don't care about her friend and romance role, I care about her abysmal politician one. Why set her up as a leader if she's an useless figurehead who falls for obvious traps and believes in the word of people who just slaughtered students in front of her over the ones who defended her? Sorry but is she completely dumb? She was supposed to be at least smart. I feel this is a way to get the rid of her so L-Elf could take control which is fine but they could have done it without completely derailing her character. I know they were hopeless without L-Elf but come on.
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Old 2013-12-05, 17:22   Link #870
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Because she's an icon for the people to rally upon. No one else could have kept the module united like she could. L-Elf? Haruto? Satomi? No way the people would follow them and I doubt either had the tact or the willingness to accept humiliation like Shoko had to just to ensure that Neo JIOR would receive the supplies it needs to exist.

It was a poor decision for the team to keep Shoko in the dark and to take the entire staff to Earth and leaving her alone without any help. Her job was hell enough and that's before ARUS made things harder for her or the Dorssians portraying the image they want to that damns the Golden 7 team.

So really, no one on the module has political tact other than Shoko who has very little herself. Not even L-Elf. Shoko at the very least kept things in order and everything was fine until the aftermath of the mission, that she was mislead about, came back to haunt the returning team.

Besides. She can trust what her enemies say because she knows their intent for the most part. While with her own staff she has no idea WHAT their intent is, what they are, or even who they are anymore after they destroyed all the trust she had in them.
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Old 2013-12-05, 17:37   Link #871
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She can trust her enemies to kill them all without a shadow of a doubt, what did she think that they were actually going to honor their promises after all the mass killing they did. If she actually thought that her ability to think has some serious flaws. She can trust the people who have been fighting for her and everyone else all this time even if they kept secrets from her.
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Old 2013-12-05, 17:42   Link #872
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Yet they seemed to be playing ball when Shoko was going to hand them over. If they weren't cartoon villain evil than it would be the best thing to do as they gain nothing for killing off Shoko and the students once they have the Golden 7 and the such. If anything sparing an enemy that surrendered and was no longer a threat would greatly help PR and would destroy ARUS morale as than surrender would be a viable option.

She cannot trust those that brought ruin to Neo JIOR because they mislead her, lied to her, and kept such dark secrets from her. They aren't the people she used to know, the curse has changed everything and her life just went from "Why wont the suffering end?" to "**** everything!".

Shoko is so hurt by their betrayal that she's willing to die than be saved by them. That's how torn up she has become due to all the BS she has had to deal with that even death is a better alternative than living.
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Old 2013-12-05, 17:50   Link #873
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The points you stated are all valid points for a teenager without any responsibilities but that's not the case for her. She's a leader and she has to make the correct decisions based on rational thought not what she's currently feeling. As a leader of a country, you do not hand over your strongest weapons when an aggressive enemy tells you that they will cease attacking if said weapons are handed over.
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Old 2013-12-05, 17:53   Link #874
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Precisely, after what happened in episode 4... when she actually used her brain (the last time she used her brain unfortunately), is she really that stupid? Stupid people aren't fit to be leaders. She can grab poms poms and cheerlead if her role is to motivate, but please leave the real decisions to those who are capable. It's just... awful.
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Old 2013-12-05, 18:02   Link #875
Destined_Fate
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The points you stated are all valid points for a teenager without any responsibilities but that's not the case for her. She's a leader and she has to make the correct decisions based on rational thought not what she's currently feeling. As a leader of a country, you do not hand over your strongest weapons when an aggressive enemy tells you that they will cease attacking if said weapons are handed over.
The role was thrust upon her as the people were iffy about Satomi and between her and him she's the far better choice since at that time Satomi wasn't ready to lead. Remember she has had to make big decision already for the good of the module. Everything was GREAT under her until the returning party came back and the BS followed them home. What she did was putting the Module first as she has no reason to believe that Dorssia would commit war crimes against a force that has surrendered. Or that ARUS would be cool with that.

Remember the students were close to being wiped out at that point.

-

Shoko isn't stupid. She follows her heart and her idealism. Such a betrayal to her destroyed everything she knows about anything and shattered her resolve greatly. So she's pushing those closest to her away because at this point she cannot deal with them due to how hurt she is over this.

Many of those hating of Shoko keep forgetting she's a teenager and that she's human. She has suffered many things as Leader that would break a weaker person. Yet after Cour 1 she didn't grieve but instead worked hard to be better. Than she gave Haruto a chance to prove that he was still the man she knew. If Haruto had told her the promise he made she would have looked over everything he did and trusted in him again that he had a reason for doing the things that he did. Instead he couldn't which in turn reflects that Haruto has "changed" and because of this everything was burning. Shoko has a responsibility for her people, Haruto not proving to be trustworthy means she cannot risk their lives anymore for him.

Furthermore she DID leave stuff to those that could help. L-Elf was made her second, by her own choice, for a reason. She promoted Satomi and co. on to her staff for a reason. They were meant to help her.

She NEEDED them and she trusted them!

Instead they abandoned her and they mislead her as they went on a mission that was nothing like they had told her. A mission that only made things far worse.

Than when they returned they brought a ton of BS that she was NEVER informed of. Hell she wouldn't know a thing on what was happening if the enemy didn't reveal the truth to her since apparently those she TRUSTS didn't trust her enough to know the truth of what they were or what they were doing. Especially when what they are doing involves Neo JIOR a great deal.
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Old 2013-12-05, 18:17   Link #876
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Betrayal? What betrayal? I don't recalled that hiding secret is betrayal, so are you saying that Shoko also betrayed Haruto because she hided secret from him too? The fact that Haruto and the other pilots is risking their life protecting her SHOULD MAKE HER REALIZED THAT HE THE REAL HARUTO not to mention the fact that Kyuuma sacrificed his life for it.
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Old 2013-12-05, 18:23   Link #877
Destined_Fate
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I already listed all the BS Shoko went through in the episode topic. Go there and look at that. She has had a lot of things going against her.

Not to mention she's completely torn by everything that has happened. Even though it isn't her fault all the people that died are on her due to her trust in the team. So she's freaking out for MANY reasons. The betrayal was just the tipping point.
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Old 2013-12-05, 18:24   Link #878
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Yea, again, all that stuff would be valid if she wasn't in a leadership position. Then she could sit around and mope and abandon her friends while everything goes to shit, I couldn't care less. That would still make her a bad person, but hey. At least no one depended on her. But because she is their leader, it's uninteresting how she felt or what horrible things she supposedly had to deal with.

Quote:
What she did was putting the Module first as she has no reason to believe that Dorssia would commit war crimes against a force that has surrendered.
Really? Because they sure had no qualms opening fire on unarmed minors a few minutes before that. Or ambushing unarmed minors and opening fire on them. Or executing a minor in public. But apart from that, I'm sure she had lots of good reasons to believe they would honour their end of the bargain.
That bargain being pretty heinous in itself.

Quote:
She cannot trust those that brought ruin to Neo JIOR because they mislead her, lied to her, and kept such dark secrets from her.
I see. But she can trust those who just, without batting an eyelash, opened fire on and systematically murdered the vast majority of the people whose protection she took on as her job?
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Old 2013-12-05, 18:34   Link #879
Destined_Fate
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It's still very much valid that she's in a leadership position. No matter what the Golden Team did in the past that was good, the fact of the matter if that ARUS betrayed them and the module was burning BECAUSE of them. Siding with those she cannot trust when the enemy is saying "Hand over the monsters, we don't want to kill you guys!" is in poor form of any leader. She cannot let personal relationships get in the way of her doing what's best for her people. Which in this was case was surrender.

Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2013-12-05 at 18:53.
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Old 2013-12-05, 19:01   Link #880
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I feel this is a way to get the rid of her so L-Elf could take control which is fine but they could have done it without completely derailing her character. I know they were hopeless without L-Elf but come on.
Making others dumb to build up L-Elf is old news. Welcome to yesterday.
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