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Old 2013-10-12, 04:13   Link #141
alluka
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This poor girl has death flags all over her face, that's why I believe she's soooo NOT dead. Sunrise! I won't be fooled! *raise fist*
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
The module is in Neutral territory so it's safe for now.
It's a little bit off topic, but remember what the ARUS politicians said about spy infiltration. What if there was a spy there from beginning? Because Nanami is getting less focus and it's suspicious.
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Old 2013-10-12, 04:26   Link #142
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let her die a quick death
1) Valrave has too many characters competing for screen time, already
2) L-Elf needs some personal suffering too. He's been unblemished so far
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Old 2013-10-12, 08:11   Link #143
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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
Well, Shinn was the hero and MC of Destiny, until Kira returned to the battlefield near the second half. And at that point Shinn really became a footnote in his own series and the returning cast pretty much began to take over.
Nonetheless, Shinn is the main protag of Destiny. Even if he was shelved for a while, he's still the central character of the series. Therefore, while SEED Destiny is a direct sequel to SEED, it is also a separate series.

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I too thought about Cain and Amadeus being actually other Magius that have taken over their bodies. However, now that I think about it, I'm not so sure. Haruto became a Magius and is now a completely different species, no one possessed him. And likewise, when he possess others, they don't become Magius. Cain and Amadeus have clearly been changed like Haruto has. Whatever happened to them is irreversible and more than a simple body swap, if that was even what it is. Again, no one swapped with Haruto and he's a Magius, so I think there is more to this and somethings we're missing.
I beg to differ, That conversation that he had with Amadeus(Mirko) in the end implies that he is not the real Cain, but rather a Magius "camping" in his body.

It also makes sense, "plant a spy among the high ranking members of the Dorssian military." Being the Chancellor's right hand, grants a lot of power. So I'd understand why the Magius "borrowed" his body.

Since he's (Well, his body is) a VVV pilot, I say he'll get back control of his body & join the soon-to-be G7. With him there, we're just missing the 7th & final member to complete the seven.

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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
Since this is a "who will die next" thread, I'd say say that Marie's death flag rating is between green to yellow
Magazine tidbits confirm that she will interact with Akira, but I think killing her off just to develop Akira would be bad taste
Not to mention they pulled something like that last season

Speaking of death flags, it's been funny for Haruto
before knowing the context, it seems he had the biggest immediate death flag.
I still say he has a huge death flag because of his implied non-presence in the future and his self sacrificing complex, but for now I'd say L-Elf has a larger death flag
I'm actually inclined to agree with this, L-Elf being a constant supply without suffering any side effects will be unbelievable. After all, anything involving the Magius have had bad outcomes so far, so I don't expect L-Elf to be the exception.

But the bright side is, he'll at least have a kid/clone by the time he dies (if he dies, that is), because in the future, that kid defo has some Elf DNA flowing through his veins.
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Old 2013-10-12, 08:23   Link #144
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I see the flag of death for both, but it is still unclear what effect it will have on L-Elf.
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Old 2013-10-12, 09:56   Link #145
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
let her die a quick death
1) Valrave has too many characters competing for screen time, already
2) L-Elf needs some personal suffering too. He's been unblemished so far
His parents were killed when he was young, and was forced to become a guerilla soldier. I think he's had personal suffering though we haven't seen any of it.
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Old 2013-10-12, 10:03   Link #146
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
The module is in Neutral territory so it's safe for now. Besides, Dorssia's prey has moved elsewhere.
Neutral means nothing when the ones guaranteeing neutrality are part of the "evil organization"

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I beg to differ, That conversation that he had with Amadeus(Mirko) in the end implies that he is not the real Cain, but rather a Magius "camping" in his body.

It also makes sense, "plant a spy among the high ranking members of the Dorssian military." Being the Chancellor's right hand, grants a lot of power. So I'd understand why the Magius "borrowed" his body.

Since he's (Well, his body is) a VVV pilot, I say he'll get back control of his body & join the soon-to-be G7. With him there, we're just missing the 7th & final member to complete the seven.
Unless they take on new names on ascension....
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Old 2013-10-12, 10:04   Link #147
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by alluka View Post


This poor girl has death flags all over her face, that's why I believe she's soooo NOT dead. Sunrise! I won't be fooled! *raise fist*
There are somethings I take at face value in Sunrise openings, and then there are times they like to just use creative visuals, such as this scene with Lieselotte. I never really thought of it as a deathflag. The girl's hardly been introduced, with only one scene in flashback, and barely a second of her in the shadows.

She does have a few indications of death flags, but there are people who have WAYYYY more, and have yet to kick the bucket, so we'll have to see.

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Originally Posted by mangakid95 View Post

I beg to differ, That conversation that he had with Amadeus(Mirko) in the end implies that he is not the real Cain, but rather a Magius "camping" in his body.

It also makes sense, "plant a spy among the high ranking members of the Dorssian military." Being the Chancellor's right hand, grants a lot of power. So I'd understand why the Magius "borrowed" his body.

Since he's (Well, his body is) a VVV pilot, I say he'll get back control of his body & join the soon-to-be G7. With him there, we're just missing the 7th & final member to complete the seven.
The thing is, as someone pointed out, Cain is called "Cain", even while at the council. So whatever Cain is, Cain is still Cain. He's been a Magius for ten years now, and I don't think that's through body swap. Now, there is the indication of body swapping with Amadeus because of the name "Mirko", but I think it might be that with the council you could possible carry another name, versus the one you carry in public. Cain's might not have mattered as much, so he's called "Cain" regardless.

Also, if it was a body swap, the person doing the swapping might get the learned reactions and a bit of the personality of the person they swapped with, as indicated with Haruto and L-11 then Haruto took over L-elf's, however, that doesn't include the melding of ALL of the personality, the memories, the secrets and such. Haruto did not totally become L-11 and neither did Saki become Haruto.

Cain as far as we've seen from his behavior around everyone around him and that of everyone else towards him, acts the exact same as he did before he became a Magius ten years ago. He also has all of his memories, as he's able to recall events that happened to him and around him even before ten years ago. The same would be necessary for the Fuehrer as well. Because in all essence, everyone would become suspicious if he suddenly didn't know the right security codes or passwords, or didn't remember events or conversations that took place before now in public or in secret.

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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
Shin still had most of the focus due to his confusions and inner thoughts. He wasn't shafted despite contrary belief.

Saki possessed Haruto for a time. Besides, Cain is referred to as himself on and off council meetings, but this Mirco has not. Cain is definitely himself.
Well, if you really wanted to pay attention to all that, I guess Shinn was sort of important. I didn't care for it and tended to ignore him and his emo inner monologues and actions altogether.

As for the later part, when I was talking about no one possessing Haruto, I meant at the point in which he was made a Magius at the very beginning. We know at his inception that he didn't swap bodies with anyone. If it's the same with all the other Magius, then they haven't switched bodies either. Also, the switching of bodies doesn't mean that the body you switch to is immortal, it's only the one you started off with. Also, the body you switch to, doesn't have the vampiric characteristics and hunger that went with the original body either. So why would the Magius stay permanently in a body that might die on them? Especially if they have nowhere to go if that body is killed? And if the Magius must feed (Cain's going to have to in order to power Prue and his new Valvrave) how could they do so if inhabiting a human body? The bodies themselves must have endured a transformation, and that's why I don't think it's simply body swapping, but a transformation of species.
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Last edited by Irenesharda; 2013-10-12 at 10:21.
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Old 2013-10-12, 11:07   Link #148
Kurohane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
There are somethings I take at face value in Sunrise openings, and then there are times they like to just use creative visuals, such as this scene with Lieselotte. I never really thought of it as a deathflag. The girl's hardly been introduced, with only one scene in flashback, and barely a second of her in the shadows.

She does have a few indications of death flags, but there are people who have WAYYYY more, and have yet to kick the bucket, so we'll have to see.



The thing is, as someone pointed out, Cain is called "Cain", even while at the council. So whatever Cain is, Cain is still Cain. He's been a Magius for ten years now, and I don't think that's through body swap. Now, there is the indication of body swapping with Amadeus because of the name "Mirko", but I think it might be that with the council you could possible carry another name, versus the one you carry in public. Cain's might not have mattered as much, so he's called "Cain" regardless.

Also, if it was a body swap, the person doing the swapping might get the learned reactions and a bit of the personality of the person they swapped with, as indicated with Haruto and L-11 then Haruto took over L-elf's, however, that doesn't include the melding of ALL of the personality, the memories, the secrets and such. Haruto did not totally become L-11 and neither did Saki become Haruto.

Cain as far as we've seen from his behavior around everyone around him and that of everyone else towards him, acts the exact same as he did before he became a Magius ten years ago. He also has all of his memories, as he's able to recall events that happened to him and around him even before ten years ago. The same would be necessary for the Fuehrer as well. Because in all essence, everyone would become suspicious if he suddenly didn't know the right security codes or passwords, or didn't remember events or conversations that took place before now in public or in secret.



Well, if you really wanted to pay attention to all that, I guess Shinn was sort of important. I didn't care for it and tended to ignore him and his emo inner monologues and actions altogether.

As for the later part, when I was talking about no one possessing Haruto, I meant at the point in which he was made a Magius at the very beginning. We know at his inception that he didn't swap bodies with anyone. If it's the same with all the other Magius, then they haven't switched bodies either. Also, the switching of bodies doesn't mean that the body you switch to is immortal, it's only the one you started off with. Also, the body you switch to, doesn't have the vampiric characteristics and hunger that went with the original body either. So why would the Magius stay permanently in a body that might die on them? Especially if they have nowhere to go if that body is killed? And if the Magius must feed (Cain's going to have to in order to power Prue and his new Valvrave) how could they do so if inhabiting a human body? The bodies themselves must have endured a transformation, and that's why I don't think it's simply body swapping, but a transformation of species.
I agree about the openings. People shouldn't take the visuals so seriously as most of them are for cool factor and effect. You can take some things as foreshadow, though you have previous info to back it up.

With Cain and Mirco though, Mirco said the he would stay in character, implying at least he is someone else. Plus, Amadues doesn't have the regular Magius symbol. I understand what you are saying now about how Haruto wasn't possessed. Ironically though, in episode 7 I think, he says that he fears his body is really someone else's. That part could be revisited in a way. It appears the valvraves were created without even the Magius' knowledge. There could even be a traitor among them that aligned with JIOR. All this proves is how little we know now. That's why this trip to earth, and meeting the people behind the project is important.
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Old 2013-10-12, 12:33   Link #149
Irenesharda
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post

With Cain and Mirco though, Mirco said the he would stay in character, implying at least he is someone else. Plus, Amadues doesn't have the regular Magius symbol.
Actually the one who said he would stay in character in front of the humans was Cain, not Amadeus. Amadeus told him to call him by his public name and not by the name that they call him while in the Council of 101. Cain responded that he would "remember that" in some subs and he would "stay in character in front of humans" in other subs.

As to the part about the symbol, one thing I noticed was that that though Amadeus had a clover symbol on his cells, he still has the Triple V symbol on his skin. My theory is that the symbol on the cells is a specific clan symbol (Cain talked about different clans in the last episode) and that the Triple V is the symbol for ALL Magius. Haruto has the three VVV's on his cells because he was infected by one the original Magius progenitors which is Pino.
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Old 2013-10-12, 13:17   Link #150
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His parents were killed when he was young, and was forced to become a guerilla soldier. I think he's had personal suffering though we haven't seen any of it.
He also had to lock away his own feelings to become a super soldier so he could embark upon Revolution. I would say he's suffering a great deal due to this feelings resurfacing due to his friendship with Haruto and his confused feelings towards Shoko.
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Old 2013-10-12, 14:19   Link #151
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No matter how many times you say it Destined Fate. It's not going to make the pairing anymore likely.
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Old 2013-10-12, 14:25   Link #152
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Anyone else hoping we get more info on Dr. Tokishima? We don't know what his status is at the moment. Could be in hiding or even be in league with the King's Faction.
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Old 2013-10-12, 14:34   Link #153
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Anyway... A-Drei is pretty popular, don't see him dying. If anything they'll have him develop some kind of friendly relationship with someone in the main cast at one point.

Would be funny if it's Marie and than she dies. Thus Shoko, Akira, and A-Drei would have a berserk button pushed due to the same person's death.

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No matter how many times you say it Destined Fate. It's not going to make the pairing anymore likely.
I say it as much as need be.
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Old 2013-10-12, 14:47   Link #154
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Anyone else hoping we get more info on Dr. Tokishima? We don't know what his status is at the moment. Could be in hiding or even be in league with the King's Faction.
I hope we do. I kind of totally forgot about him/her. (it was never confirmed if Dr. Tokishima was Haruto's mom or dad.) We do need someone to explain things to the 5 pilots and to us about who and what the Magius are and how the Valvraves came to be. However, I fear that if Haruto's parent ever shows up, after any sort of explanation, he or she is done for. Parents are often killed off in these things, especially ones who know secrets.

Also, we should get some information who and what the "Facility" was that was mentioned in the VVV TOS.
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Old 2013-10-12, 15:02   Link #155
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I hope we do. I kind of totally forgot about him/her. (it was never confirmed if Dr. Tokishima was Haruto's mom or dad.) We do need someone to explain things to the 5 pilots and to us about who and what the Magius are and how the Valvraves came to be. However, I fear that if Haruto's parent ever shows up, after any sort of explanation, he or she is done for. Parents are often killed off in these things, especially ones who know secrets.

Also, we should get some information who and what the "Facility" was that was mentioned in the VVV TOS.
Right. The Doc could reach out to Haruto. Explain the situation with Valvraves, tell them more about the "Facility" and give the whole "Forgive me for putting my sins onto you" speech to Haruto.
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Old 2013-10-12, 15:27   Link #156
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Or the plot twist is that his parents have been dead and the Magius had implanted someone in their bodies because of their research/work!

Dundundun!

Haruto, you have much mindblowing to prepare for in the future! Mwahahahaha!!!
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Old 2013-10-12, 16:44   Link #157
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I hope we do. I kind of totally forgot about him/her. (it was never confirmed if Dr. Tokishima was Haruto's mom or dad.) We do need someone to explain things to the 5 pilots and to us about who and what the Magius are and how the Valvraves came to be. However, I fear that if Haruto's parent ever shows up, after any sort of explanation, he or she is done for. Parents are often killed off in these things, especially ones who know secrets.

Also, we should get some information who and what the "Facility" was that was mentioned in the VVV TOS.
Star Ocean 3 is guilty of this, though the execution was lacking.

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Originally Posted by KleenexGhost View Post
Right. The Doc could reach out to Haruto. Explain the situation with Valvraves, tell them more about the "Facility" and give the whole "Forgive me for putting my sins onto you" speech to Haruto.
Sad thing though is that it could have been anyone. It's just that Haruto happened to be next to thing when Shoko "died".
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Old 2013-10-12, 16:57   Link #158
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Sad thing though is that it could have been anyone. It's just that Haruto happened to be next to thing when Shoko "died".
Right. The fact that Haruto became it's pilot is just ironic.

Unless they try to say that Dr. Tokishima intended for Haruto to be the pilot all along.
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Old 2013-10-12, 17:04   Link #159
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Than destiny is strange thing since Shoko was needed to "die" for Haruto to pilot. So.... He was really betting high on circumstance getting Haruto to pilot than. Or he lucked out a great deal that circumstance got Haruto to pilot since he wasn't around to hand the Valvrave over to him.

I also don't like the thought of a parent sacrificing their son to that curse.
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Old 2013-10-12, 17:11   Link #160
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Than destiny is strange thing since Shoko was needed to "die" for Haruto to pilot. So.... He was really betting high on circumstance getting Haruto to pilot than. Or he lucked out a great deal that circumstance got Haruto to pilot since he wasn't around to hand the Valvrave over to him.

I also don't like the thought of a parent sacrificing their son to that curse.
Now, we don't know what Dr. Tokishima was like. But think about the fact that each of the students at the school were possible pilots like Kurohane said. Potentially sacrificing someone else's child is fucked up too.

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