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View Poll Results: Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 12 16.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 35 46.67%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 18.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 14.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.33%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.33%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-06-10, 00:58   Link #101
FlareKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
What do people think Kugel's reaction will be when Ledo tells him about the true nature of the Hideauze?
I'd probably go with initial disbelief followed by not being overly affected. If Kugel's been in the military for such a long time he might not care what the Hideauze are or used to be. They are the enemy and that's all that matters.
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Old 2013-06-10, 01:17   Link #102
MeggieMay
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The idea that Kugel has started a cult of Whalesquid killers is just one theory of what is going on here, so lets not get a cart before a horse, so to speak. Until we see the next episode, that is just one of several possibility for what may happen. I've seen just as good scenarios put forth by other viewers, both here and at other forums, that point out that Klugel may actually still be in status and/or his unit has been captured but he may not be cooperating with the group who showed up at the end. Also, someone at Random Curiosities said they saw the Hideauze symbols on the back of the cloaks of the "cult." I keep putting "cult" in parenthesis because we may end up finding out they aren't really a cult, though I personally do think they're some sort of extremist going by the wacky looks on their faces. Still, other than Striker we didn't actually see Kugel. Maybe he didn't turn native or god-head but is a captive? It's another scenario worth thinking about. Also, Ledo didn't have a direct message from Klugel. What Ledo got was a encrypted pulse from the Striker - that could turn out to be a message but it also may be a default automated beacon type thing that was set off by proximity to Chamber. I actually just went back and checked this out. It was enlightening because I was wrong in thinking that they were using radio waves to talk but it's not that at all (also whoever pointed out that the Striker could have been on the other side of the planet gets a cookie from me - sorry, I actually didn't think of that issue and it's a good one!). I'm not sure what to think of the message now, though I did wonder if it was a direct message or just some sort of identification beacon when I saw the episode.

I noticed something else when I was doing this check with the next week teaser (which didn't get screened capped at RC). While it seems to show someone other than Ledo in a pilot suit, I'm not too sure that it's Klugel in the suit but instead is someone else We might have a Mecha jack going on here, though we also just might have a off model picture as well (I'd almost lean towards that at this point). Hopefully someone will get some good screen caps of the next week stuff put up soon (I don't have a good way to post screencaps myself).

BTW, I've yet to see anyone on this thread bring up the fact that Kugel outranks Ledo. Ledo's ranking was an important plot point last week, so Kugel's reappearance could potentially cause some big problems here.
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Old 2013-06-10, 01:32   Link #103
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
To an A.I. like Chamber this argument of his surely is perfectly sound, but to my ears it's incredibly hollow and semantic. Chamber uses words like "pure" and "civilization" a lot to defend his position - surely no coincidence. In his logic any sacrifice is justifiable to preserve civilization, and his own existence is the proof of the purity of the cause - effectively "Because I exist, the cause must be just."
Yes, Chamber justifies Humanity's war... because without it he wouldn't exist. If all humanity went squid... he wouldn't exist. I'm still not convinced he won't be a near final antagonist for Ledo... remember the foreshadowing of how Ledo could not fish without a computer to target for him? I can imagine Ledo having to fight, but first having to unplug Chamber because ultimately Chamber is subtly manipulating him.

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We have one side that's given up their physical humanity and the trappings of civilization, and another which has kept their physical form on the strength of eugenics, slavery and advanced robotics. Yes, it's a mess - I know - but what I long for here is for Gen to put himself on the line, just this once. Choose a side and stick with it - make someone the good guy, and tell us what he thinks the right answer to try and resolve this terrible mess is...
The only good one here is clearly Amy. I'm betting on a flawed Ledo sacrificing himself for her and Gargantia's vision of a future of co-exsistance.
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Old 2013-06-10, 01:46   Link #104
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What do people think Kugel's reaction will be when Ledo tells him about the true nature of the Hideauze?
I wouldn't be surprised if he already knows and just doesn't care. He could've even known the whole time. After all, he's an officer. Plus, that's usually how these things work out.

"How can you continue the mission? It's wrong and stuff!" "Who cares?! It's politics and stuff! Now I'm dead. You're naive. *bleh*"
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Old 2013-06-10, 03:28   Link #105
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Let's go with more crazy conjectures!

Signs on "cult" people are actually looking more like Evolver. It's definitely not Alliance sign which would make sense if Kugel was calling shots there.

So... Kugel has sided with Hideause! His Machine Caliber is in hands of enemy! And he'll go and annihilate human fleet (that much is given - i'm sure noone expects "omnious ships in the distance" to mean "let's talk entire next episode!") while simultaneously trying to talk Ledo into joining him.
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Old 2013-06-10, 03:57   Link #106
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So he finally appears... I was waiting for him to appear.

Hell, even last episode with Ledo asking Chamber to declassify the video.. I was totally expecting Chamber to say: "No, you are not the highest ranking authority within the area."
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Old 2013-06-10, 04:17   Link #107
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Umm. I feel bad for the GA to be viewed as another Nazi space or Blue Cosmos here.

I can't comprehend what the hell the Evolvers were thinking, and what the Hideauze are thinking now. Maybe you should turn into one of them and tell me how you feel.

There's a huge possibility that if the CA wasn't formed, and the GA didn't become what it has become now, the human race would go extinct by the Hideauze.

It's like how a few eccentric people voluntarily and needlessly morph themselves into squid, then start expanding their kind, until the current humans become the minority, discriminated and have no choice bu to turn into one... They just had to choose the most absurd choice possible and leave us with no choice...

What will Ledo think if the Earth is a peaceful planet where all humans are non-aggressive whalesquids who tell Ledo to turn into one as them if they want to live together in harmony out of their "peaceful advice"? Will Ledo has choice to choose?
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Old 2013-06-10, 04:37   Link #108
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Originally Posted by Kleeyook View Post
There's a huge possibility that if the CA wasn't formed, and the GA didn't become what it has become now, the human race would go extinct by the Hideauze.
Even if the Continental Union wasn't formed the Evolver would've still been attacked as they performed human experiments violating human rights and international law.

We heard the Evolver founder spouting international laws and ethics are are obsolete which means in his view he doesn't care any sort of enforced morality just he wants to perform his experiments and SHOW THEM ALL.

The Continental Union likely formed as cooperation between countries to develop space infrastructure so humans can live in space and find a new world to colonize. They even figured out to create a wormhole travel.

In my opinion everybody else except the Evolvers recognized that evolving to space creatures is a dead end solution to their problem.

What happened to the Evolvers? Their descendants are nothing more than animals. Individual Hideauze doesn't even have beam weapons anymore.

Much like the lightbug nanomachines the space flower just shoots out energy. It isn't human sophistication anymore just that particular species can do it.
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Old 2013-06-10, 05:00   Link #109
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With this episode , i just don't care about Pinion anymore , i hope he'll get what he deserves & die. He seek revenge but he's a complete idiot.
At this rate , i hope Whalesquids will get their revenge too.
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Old 2013-06-10, 07:15   Link #110
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Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Fun fact: The military doesn't make weapons that are hard to fire. That makes them hard to fire. If they need to fire them, they want to be able to do so quickly.

Just as well, in hundreds of years time there will likely be very little change in the actual firing of even the most advanced weapons in terms of the person pulling the trigger. The mechanics of it can be as advanced as they need to be, but when it comes to firing the bullet it has to be as simple as it can be.

That having been said, they manually pointed it at the target to begin with, so all they really had to do was find the big red button, so to speak.
Okay, I've found the big red button to release all the nuclear weapons upon the Soviet Union. All I gotta do is push it, right?

Sure, the run-of-the-mill point and shoot mechanical military weapons that are in use now are easy to fire and, if they happen to fall into the enemies hands, they can then turn them on the original faction. But that was not your typical run-of-the-mill point and shoot mechanical military weapon. It was a highly advanced computerized weapon. If it did not have some kind of fail-safe security system in place to prevent unauthorized use, then whoever built it is dumber than I am. What the heck, I can even password protect my ten year old cell phone from someone else using it. Duh.

I'll agree with Cloudedmind, the writers chose anime logic and ignored realistic consistency, just to scare the pirates.
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Old 2013-06-10, 07:38   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
To an A.I. like Chamber this argument of his surely is perfectly sound, but to my ears it's incredibly hollow and semantic. Chamber uses words like "pure" and "civilization" a lot to defend his position - surely no coincidence. In his logic any sacrifice is justifiable to preserve civilization, and his own existence is the proof of the purity of the cause - effectively "Because I exist, the cause must be just."
I agree that Chamber's logic only works to a certain extent, but you aren't getting his message if you think Chamber makes it a matter of good VS bad or wrong VS right.

If you pay attention he isn't being partial on describing the two factions, he objectively examines their pros and their cons. For example he admits that humans are frail beings while Hideauze are extreme creatures.

And when you consider the he states that it all comes down to a war for different views in survival strategies and in which the losing side is going to be exterminated, you realize that he is justifying the alliance attacking the Hideauze as much as he is justifying the Hideauze for attacking humans.


Chamber reached the conclusion that the war is inevitable, which is a bit hasty in my opinion, but if that's true then all the rest that he said follows logically.
There is in fact no logic in not fighting when your existence is at stake and he doesn't have a choice in which side to fight on.


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Originally Posted by MeggieMay View Post
The idea that Kugel has started a cult of Whalesquid killers is just one theory of what is going on here, so lets not get a cart before a horse, so to speak. Until we see the next episode, that is just one of several possibility for what may happen. I've seen just as good scenarios put forth by other viewers, both here and at other forums, that point out that Klugel may actually still be in status and/or his unit has been captured but he may not be cooperating with the group who showed up at the end. Also, someone at Random Curiosities said they saw the Hideauze symbols on the back of the cloaks of the "cult." I keep putting "cult" in parenthesis because we may end up finding out they aren't really a cult, though I personally do think they're some sort of extremist going by the wacky looks on their faces. Still, other than Striker we didn't actually see Kugel. Maybe he didn't turn native or god-head but is a captive? It's another scenario worth thinking about. Also, Ledo didn't have a direct message from Klugel. What Ledo got was a encrypted pulse from the Striker - that could turn out to be a message but it also may be a default automated beacon type thing that was set off by proximity to Chamber. I actually just went back and checked this out. It was enlightening because I was wrong in thinking that they were using radio waves to talk but it's not that at all (also whoever pointed out that the Striker could have been on the other side of the planet gets a cookie from me - sorry, I actually didn't think of that issue and it's a good one!). I'm not sure what to think of the message now, though I did wonder if it was a direct message or just some sort of identification beacon when I saw the episode.
Well okay, though I don't quite agree with everything that you said, perhaps you have a point that the truth might be more complicated than what it seems.

Looking back, people thought that the whalesquids would cause problems and even deaths, and so far they didn't. Then people thought that Chamber and Ledo would become enemies, and so far they didn't. Now people think that Kugel is going to be the main enemy... well it might also turn out to be completely wrong.

However these new guys look like trouble not matter how you slice it. Whatever it is their reason a sane person wouldn't decorate his house with the carcasses of some dead animal, even less dead humans. I don't think it can be said that they are well preserved, they are not, their flesh shows lacerations and decay.

This might actually be a point against the theory that Kugel is in command, unless he became insane himself.

There's also to consider that these guys are going toward a fleet that exterminated a whole nest of whalesquids and they look happy.
It's very unlikely that they are pro whalesquids, unless they are so crazy that their bloodlust for a holy war is stronger than the sadness and anger for the dead whalesquids.

Striker doesn't look damaged in any way and she's sending a message.

If Kugel is still inside then Striker should wake him up as soon as she meets Chamber.

If Kugel is dead, then Striker is likely in standby mode waiting for someone of the alliance to come. I don't think that it's very likely that someone hijacked her. Pinion and his crew couldn't do a thing on Chamber, and Chamber refuses to take orders from anyone but Ledo, unless Ledo himself transfers authority.

Going by the cultist idea that seems almost undeniable, it seems that they view Strikers as a sort of idol. In a preview shot you see them watching in amazement at something that is above them. That's most likely Chamber. They'll be probably shocked when they'll see that there is another machine caliber.

If Striker refused to help them and never did anything but remaining in stand by that might be even more shocking for them.


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Originally Posted by MeggieMay View Post
I noticed something else when I was doing this check with the next week teaser (which didn't get screened capped at RC). While it seems to show someone other than Ledo in a pilot suit, I'm not too sure that it's Klugel in the suit but instead is someone else We might have a Mecha jack going on here, though we also just might have a off model picture as well (I'd almost lean towards that at this point). Hopefully someone will get some good screen caps of the next week stuff put up soon (I don't have a good way to post screencaps myself).
I don't know if you are looking at something different, but in the preview I've seen I can only see Ledo in a pilot suit.
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Old 2013-06-10, 11:00   Link #112
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Feels like Chamber will get destroyed at the end of this series due to battle with Striker or something, or because of the weapons that were salvaged being stolen then used against him or something.

Ledo though, I don't think he will die.
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Old 2013-06-10, 12:03   Link #113
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I think Chamber's reasoning is based on the premise that the survival of an AI like him is a Good Thing. And so is the survival of the militaristic society he was built in. So we are being shown that AIs are human, too, and can bend logic to enhance their chances of survival. Chamber is this show's Kyuubei, it seems to me, bent on forcing humans into a life of combat, for reasons of his own.

Ledo is emotionally shattered by having seen that the Hideauze evolved, in part, from humans, that their young look fairly human, and that there are even Hideauze like the little one Chamber crushed that look quite humanoid. The human-like aspects of the Hideauze make no impression on Chamber. I'd say that Chamber is unemotional, but I have to say I felt some kind of hard emotion coming from him (it?) during his (its?) self-justifying explanation.

And now I hope it's time for more Amy in this show. And more of her brother, too.
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Old 2013-06-10, 12:38   Link #114
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Ledo is emotionally shattered by having seen that the Hideauze evolved, in part, from humans,
That seems rather strange. He didn't care about killing pirates. Though yeah, I can see why the baby killing would be different, but he seemed just as sorry about the adults, including those he killed in the war.
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Old 2013-06-10, 13:25   Link #115
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Originally Posted by MeggieMay View Post
The idea that Kugel has started a cult of Whalesquid killers is just one theory of what is going on here, so lets not get a cart before a horse, so to speak. Until we see the next episode, that is just one of several possibility for what may happen. I've seen just as good scenarios put forth by other viewers, both here and at other forums, that point out that Klugel may actually still be in status and/or his unit has been captured but he may not be cooperating with the group who showed up at the end. Also, someone at Random Curiosities said they saw the Hideauze symbols on the back of the cloaks of the "cult." I keep putting "cult" in parenthesis because we may end up finding out they aren't really a cult, though I personally do think they're some sort of extremist going by the wacky looks on their faces. Still, other than Striker we didn't actually see Kugel. Maybe he didn't turn native or god-head but is a captive? It's another scenario worth thinking about. Also, Ledo didn't have a direct message from Klugel. What Ledo got was a encrypted pulse from the Striker - that could turn out to be a message but it also may be a default automated beacon type thing that was set off by proximity to Chamber. I actually just went back and checked this out. It was enlightening because I was wrong in thinking that they were using radio waves to talk but it's not that at all (also whoever pointed out that the Striker could have been on the other side of the planet gets a cookie from me - sorry, I actually didn't think of that issue and it's a good one!). I'm not sure what to think of the message now, though I did wonder if it was a direct message or just some sort of identification beacon when I saw the episode.

I noticed something else when I was doing this check with the next week teaser (which didn't get screened capped at RC). While it seems to show someone other than Ledo in a pilot suit, I'm not too sure that it's Klugel in the suit but instead is someone else We might have a Mecha jack going on here, though we also just might have a off model picture as well (I'd almost lean towards that at this point). Hopefully someone will get some good screen caps of the next week stuff put up soon (I don't have a good way to post screencaps myself).

BTW, I've yet to see anyone on this thread bring up the fact that Kugel outranks Ledo. Ledo's ranking was an important plot point last week, so Kugel's reappearance could potentially cause some big problems here.
I did, way back in the beginning of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post

I'm just saying that assuming that suddenly Kugel and Red will be enemies is jumping to conclusions. Especially for a soldier trained to obey his CO. And I don't care how much more in touch with his humanity Red has become, he still carries the mind and instincts of a soldier.
I mention and agree with many of the points you bring up as well as the fact that since Kugel is Red's CO and he's trained to obey him could bring problems. Also Chamber wouldn't go against him unless it was in detriment to Red's health.

However, we don't even know if Kugel will be the enemy or not. The episode preview doesn't show any fight scenes, so it's really up in the air what will happen.
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Old 2013-06-10, 13:35   Link #116
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That seems rather strange. He didn't care about killing pirates. Though yeah, I can see why the baby killing would be different, but he seemed just as sorry about the adults, including those he killed in the war.
I speculate that, after having slaughtered every whalesuid in sight, including the "mother" and "babies", he sees videos which could just as well have been Hollywood mock-ups for propaganda purposes, the veractiy of which even Chamber couldn't verify. In the video he sees what appears to be, not only the first human-to-Hideauze transformation, but also a subsequent transformation tagged with the same name as the young girl who appeared previously in the footage.

At that point, there is nothing to convince him either way, that what he saw was real, or faked. Yes, it could be actual footage of actual events, or, no, it could have been something the Disney of his day could have made.

Then, all of a sudden, right after watching the footage, right before his eyes appears a humanoid creature that seems to look identical to the squidgirl in the video. In an instant, what could have been just a bunch of malarkey, becomes a 100% certainty in Ledo's mind. Yes, the Hideauze really are transformed humans.

It's a psychological thing.
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Old 2013-06-10, 13:41   Link #117
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
That seems rather strange. He didn't care about killing pirates. Though yeah, I can see why the baby killing would be different, but he seemed just as sorry about the adults, including those he killed in the war.
Even during the days of Rome pirates are considered Enemy of all mankind.

Besides Amy asked for help. He thought this was a good way to clear the impasse between him and the Gargantians.

There are other groups of humans in space called Drifters. It wouldn't surprise me if some of those groups became space pirates.

It has been indoctrinated to Ledo that humans should help each other for the advancement of the human race. Gargantians though technologically primitive and have cultural differences to the Galactic Alliance at their core have these values. Give water to those that catches fish.

Pirates go against these values and is classified as a threat for endangering their fellow humans.

Unfortunately Ledo having issues for the episode with the revelations of the origin of Hideauze does not notice Pinion mad with greed is becoming detrimental to the advancement of the human race.

If he did he join Flange with sharing and trading as he believes in the Galactic Alliance and Gargantian philosophy that humans should cooperate.
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Old 2013-06-10, 13:59   Link #118
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I don't there is enough faceplams to express how "gone full retard" Pinion was in this episode. What little sympathy he got with me when story of his brother came up pretty much vanished. Now, he's just high power and continues to treat Ledo as tool rather than a partner. If he his skills weren't irreplaceable Flange should just throw him into the brig.

Chamber completely surprised me here, never did I think he would gain some sort of character development and I agree with his general argument. the GA and Hideauze will never see eye-eye because they are too different in every way now and the nature of the war remains unchanged even with truth.

...and now we got Cults showing up now with Kugel (somehow) in toe? Yeah, nothing going to go wrong here, not all.

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Originally Posted by Grey View Post
Ledo's behavior was painfully inconsistent with vaporizing those pirates early on. It really bugged me that they didn't address that. I was thankful when Chamber gave his own analysis. It was interesting to hear.
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
That seems rather strange. He didn't care about killing pirates. Though yeah, I can see why the baby killing would be different, but he seemed just as sorry about the adults, including those he killed in the war.
I kind of agree here too. Even if you could rationalize the Pirates as deserters as Tirece said, it still felt little over the top.
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Old 2013-06-10, 14:08   Link #119
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Originally Posted by MeggieMay View Post
Also, someone at Random Curiosities said they saw the Hideauze symbols on the back of the cloaks of the "cult."

I noticed something else when I was doing this check with the next week teaser (which didn't get screened capped at RC). While it seems to show someone other than Ledo in a pilot suit, I'm not too sure that it's Klugel in the suit but instead is someone else We might have a Mecha jack going on here, though we also just might have a off model picture as well (I'd almost lean towards that at this point). Hopefully someone will get some good screen caps of the next week stuff put up soon (I don't have a good way to post screencaps myself).
Looking back, I see the symbols on their backs are identical to the ones on their faces and do look like the Hideauze, but not like the ones that Gargantia has, but like the way they looked originally as the Evolvers, especially that big Matsumoto one.

As to next weeks teaser, after looking again, I think it's just Red being show in the pilot suit. There are three shots of an Alliance pilot and I think they are all Red. Kugel hasn't been shown once.
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Old 2013-06-10, 14:22   Link #120
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It wouldn't surprise me if they are an Evolver remnant as it looks like Gargantia make have been a Continental Union/Galactic Alliance remnant all along.

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