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Old 2013-06-13, 06:26   Link #1
belatkuro
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To Aru Majutsu no Index - Light Novel - Power Level Discussion

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A Certain Universal Strength Report Pyramid
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Updated up to NT7. Kuroyoru, Birdway, Rensa and Tsuchimikado are too high imo.
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Old 2013-06-13, 07:51   Link #2
OverNOut
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Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
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A Certain Universal Strength Report Pyramid
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Updated up to NT7. Kuroyoru, Birdway, Rensa and Tsuchimikado are too high imo.
Lol, the washing machine is in the pyramid.
It looks like Misaka 10032's cat is name Dog.
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Old 2013-06-13, 10:32   Link #3
dniv
Science is Romance
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
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A Certain Universal Strength Report Pyramid
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Updated up to NT7. Kuroyoru, Birdway, Rensa and Tsuchimikado are too high imo.
I laughed so hard at this chart. It's really really good. My only complaint is that it says that Levinia's current power was below what Vento was at some point. How could that be true? That chart was great. Thanks.
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Old 2013-06-13, 12:14   Link #4
Miraluka
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^I disagree with this chart.

Carrisa with Curtana Second's shards stronger than Aqua? Birdway lower than Vento despite Touma can't negate the former attacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaman View Post
Its missing Kanzaki and Pendex(if you count that as a punch) in September.
He only touched Index, and he really didn't hit Kanzaki it was Kanzaki the one hit herself .
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Old 2013-06-13, 13:46   Link #5
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
^I disagree with this chart.

Carrisa with Curtana Second's shards stronger than Aqua? Birdway lower than Vento despite Touma can't negate the former attacks?



He only touched Index, and he really didn't hit Kanzaki it was Kanzaki the one hit herself .
I was also wondering about Mikoto's upgraded version (not specifying). Also, The top 4 are debatable:
Spoiler for DRAGON, NT 7:
Also, Rikou's position is ridiculous... I don't think
Spoiler for Accelerator, after 3 stories arc:
Spoiler for Misaki arc in Railgun manga:
.

I still think it's a pretty good chart regardless though. The effort is appreciated. It's obviously hard to make it near perfect at this point. We don't have near enough information that's definite.
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Old 2013-06-13, 18:29   Link #6
Ashaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
^I disagree with this chart.
Spoiler for Carrisa:
Spoiler for Carrisa:


Quote:
Misaki and Rikou
I have no idea what you are looking at because Misaki and Rikou are both in the Support section, donating their relatively no direct combat roles.

It doesn't matter that they are powerful, they are ultimately Support

Quote:
Spoiler for Aiwass:
Hence why Touma is given his own border indicating he can't be placed well and the disclaimer "this is not a who beats who chart"
Spoiler for NT7:



Quote:
He only touched Index, and he really didn't hit Kanzaki it was Kanzaki the one hit herself .
He hit Kanzaki.
Quote:
He grabbed Kanzaki’s collar with his battered left hand.

“Why did you acquire power?”

He made a bloody fist with his battered right hand.

“Who did you want to protect!?”

Using that weak fist, he struck Kanzaki’s face. There lacked anything remotely resembling force behind the punch and the fist itself actually spurted blood like a tomato.

Even so, Kanzaki stumbled back as if truly punched. She released Shichiten Shichitou which spiraled as it fell to the ground.
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Old 2013-06-13, 19:22   Link #7
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaman View Post
Spoiler for Carissa:



I have no idea what you are looking at because Misaki and Rikou are both in the Support section, donating their relatively no direct combat roles.

It doesn't matter that they are powerful, they are ultimately Support



Hence why Touma is given his own border indicating he can't be placed well and the disclaimer "this is not a who beats who chart"
Spoiler for NT7:





He hit Kanzaki.
In terms of Misaki/Rikou I was speculating for future volumes/ manga chapters... (I mean:
Spoiler for speculation for future Index New Testament:
In terms of Misaki
Spoiler for future railgun manga chapters speculation:


In terms of Birdway...
Spoiler for late OT of Index and details on her power and some NT:


I know what you mean about Touma. I understand that. I'm not saying this makes the top 4 weaker. I'm saying this should make Touma higher than he is... Considering everything we have seen about him... he will probably be there sometime.

Even if it doesn't claim to be a power relation chart (?), it was made to show the relative strength of characters. If it can't do that correctly, then what's the point of making one in the first place. Maybe they should change it from a 2-D pyramid to a 3-d pyramid. That would better account for the different possibilities (me trolling).
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Old 2013-06-13, 20:14   Link #8
Haigon
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Rikou and Misaki even with all the boosts remains non-combat oriented, so they are support.
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Old 2013-06-13, 21:33   Link #9
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigon View Post
Rikou and Misaki even with all the boosts remains non-combat oriented, so they are support.
This is getting off topic so I won't make a long discussion about this here... However, I'll concede what you say about Misaki, but Rikou no way...

Spoiler for Speculation on Rikou... in late New Testament don't read this unless you've finished through novel 22...:


That's all I'm going to say about that... I have to admit though: it's really really hard to figure out where things would go on a pyramid like that and get even half of the relative power levels right.
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Old 2013-06-14, 06:01   Link #10
Ashaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
In terms of Misaki/Rikou I was speculating for future volumes/ manga chapters... (I mean:
Spoiler for speculation for future Index New Testament:
In terms of Misaki
Spoiler for future railgun manga chapters speculation:


In terms of Birdway...
Spoiler for late OT of Index and details on her power and some NT:


I know what you mean about Touma. I understand that. I'm not saying this makes the top 4 weaker. I'm saying this should make Touma higher than he is... Considering everything we have seen about him... he will probably be there sometime.

Even if it doesn't claim to be a power relation chart (?), it was made to show the relative strength of characters. If it can't do that correctly, then what's the point of making one in the first place. Maybe they should change it from a 2-D pyramid to a 3-d pyramid. That would better account for the different possibilities (me trolling).
It is a power relation chart. But it isn't a who beats who chart. These things are not the same.

Spoiler for Touma:


Spoiler for Birdway:


Quote:
Spoiler for Rikou:
Spoiler for Rikou:
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Old 2013-06-14, 09:30   Link #11
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaman View Post
It is a power relation chart. But it isn't a who beats who chart. These things are not the same.

Spoiler for Touma:


Spoiler for Birdway:



Spoiler for Rikou:
Okay sheesh I don't want to argue anymore.

But: the Birdway stuff happened somewhere in 20-22 don't remember which

Rikou in 22

Touma (that's obvious)
Spoiler for volume 22:


And fine: I was just speculating. I still think things will happen ok?
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Old 2013-06-14, 10:43   Link #12
Ashaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
Okay sheesh I don't want to argue anymore.

But: the Birdway stuff happened somewhere in 20-22 don't remember which

Rikou in 22

Touma (that's obvious)
Spoiler for volume 22:


And fine: I was just speculating. I still think things will happen ok?
And charts made on who you think might be more powerful in the future are better than the current relative strengths?

Spoiler for Final Arguments:
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Old 2013-06-14, 11:02   Link #13
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaman View Post
And charts made on who you think might be more powerful in the future are better than the current relative strengths?

Spoiler for Final Arguments:
You're being really rude. I don't feel like arguing.

P.S. I did read the legend.

P.P.S. about Birdway... (the actual truth)
Spoiler for NT 6 Birdway:


P.P.P.S. It's a good chart. I was saying it could be improved. It's an opinion. I was giving some critical feedback. Is that a problem? People accomplish things, making better charts, by taking critical feedback and doing something about it... just saying. You work and you work to get results...
Spoiler for NT 6:
Otherwise, a person/character is weak.

P.P.P.P.S. (if you're saying Touma's power isn't his own ability, then......... that's silly...) his power is his ability... Touma can use IB... so his power is the power of IB... what about that isn't obvious?... Every aspect of IB is part of Touma's power. In terms of Gemstones, their abilities are their own powers. Touma is like that even if he is technically a special case. I guess it's still too early to speculate,
Spoiler for Vol 22:


Lastly...
Spoiler for Rikou NT6, NT7:

Last edited by dniv; 2013-06-15 at 23:09.
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Old 2013-06-16, 16:08   Link #14
judasmartel
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So Misaki is actually adept at hand-to-hand combat like Mikoto and Kuroko (but not really at the same level as Touma)? Or does she use her powers directly?
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Old 2013-06-16, 18:10   Link #15
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
So Misaki is actually adept at hand-to-hand combat like Mikoto and Kuroko (but not really at the same level as Touma)? Or does she use her powers directly?
As long as she's fighting with a lot of other espers involved or other people... she can mind control those other people to fight for her and to protect her... As long as the people she is with can't block her mind control... that makes her pretty powerful... imagine what she'd be like with Rikou, Awaki, and even magicians fighting for her... that would not be pretty to see... I'm curious as to whether or not she'd be able to mind control Levinia... I mean would Birdway just be too smart/powerful for it to happen... if not, Misaki could absorb Birdway's knowledge and become a super-powerful force to be reckoned with...

I'm guessing Aleister Crowley is also immune to mind control somehow... I wonder how...

Misaki could also just mind control important people who have legal power or influence... she doesn't need to directly control "powerful" espers in that sense to get her work done. She could have mind controlled everyone in the Radio Noise project probably to solve Mikoto's problem for her... if she had wanted to.. (that's more than Mikoto would have been able to accomplish)...

Power is a relative thing.
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Old 2013-06-16, 18:14   Link #16
Miraluka
Even after hope's lost...
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
So Misaki is actually adept at hand-to-hand combat like Mikoto and Kuroko (but not really at the same level as Touma)? Or does she use her powers directly?
Kuroko, yes, she got a proper training from Judgement. Mikoto, no, she is an amateur, just look how Frenda kicked her ass.

Misaki, I don't think so, she must be even less capable than Mikoto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
I'm guessing Aleister Crowley is also immune to mind control somehow... I wonder how...
He must be like Fiamma, once you reach a certain level you r nigh invulnerable to any kind of effects from spells or attacks. Fiamma had his protection from his HR and used against Index's mind poison but once he lost it on his defeat he started to suffer the consequences.
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Old 2013-06-16, 18:48   Link #17
Ihaxlikenoob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
As long as she's fighting with a lot of other espers involved or other people... she can mind control those other people to fight for her and to protect her... As long as the people she is with can't block her mind control... that makes her pretty powerful... imagine what she'd be like with Rikou, Awaki, and even magicians fighting for her... that would not be pretty to see... I'm curious as to whether or not she'd be able to mind control Levinia... I mean would Birdway just be too smart/powerful for it to happen... if not, Misaki could absorb Birdway's knowledge and become a super-powerful force to be reckoned with...

I'm guessing Aleister Crowley is also immune to mind control somehow... I wonder how...

Misaki could also just mind control important people who have legal power or influence... she doesn't need to directly control "powerful" espers in that sense to get her work done. She could have mind controlled everyone in the Radio Noise project probably to solve Mikoto's problem for her... if she had wanted to.. (that's more than Mikoto would have been able to accomplish)...

Power is a relative thing.
Aside:
So many ellipses you're using there pal, in fact there's not one sentence aside from two in your post that doesn't have one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On topic:
It's jarring to consider how powerful individuals in the Magic side compared to their Science side counter-parts.

But then again artificial espers are relatively new to supernatural scene, they'll probably evolve or something as the series progresses.

Last edited by Ihaxlikenoob; 2013-06-16 at 19:01.
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Old 2013-06-16, 18:50   Link #18
Rovert10
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Yeah magic has been in development for what the past couple 1000 years dating back to BC.

Espers been in serious development for about 50 years give or take, have to say that espers/science made up a ton of ground to match magic.
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Old 2013-06-16, 18:52   Link #19
dniv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihaxlikenoob View Post
Aside:
So many ellipses you're using there pal, In fact there's not one sentence aside from two in your post that doesn't have one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On topic:
It's jarring to consider how powerful individuals in the Magic side compared to their Science side counter-parts.

But then again artificial espers are relatively new to supernatural scene, they'll probably evolve or something as the series progresses.
Good point.... (just kidding!) My last sentence in the second post didn't have elipses

It's kind of like a natural pause for me when I'm talking.

On topic: I want to see espers evolve. I hope they do. They can espervolve. Is there some dragon quest reference I can make, now?
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Old 2013-06-16, 19:08   Link #20
judasmartel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dniv View Post
As long as she's fighting with a lot of other espers involved or other people... she can mind control those other people to fight for her and to protect her... As long as the people she is with can't block her mind control... that makes her pretty powerful... imagine what she'd be like with Rikou, Awaki, and even magicians fighting for her... that would not be pretty to see... I'm curious as to whether or not she'd be able to mind control Levinia... I mean would Birdway just be too smart/powerful for it to happen... if not, Misaki could absorb Birdway's knowledge and become a super-powerful force to be reckoned with...

I'm guessing Aleister Crowley is also immune to mind control somehow... I wonder how...

Misaki could also just mind control important people who have legal power or influence... she doesn't need to directly control "powerful" espers in that sense to get her work done. She could have mind controlled everyone in the Radio Noise project probably to solve Mikoto's problem for her... if she had wanted to.. (that's more than Mikoto would have been able to accomplish)...

Power is a relative thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Kuroko, yes, she got a proper training from Judgement. Mikoto, no, she is an amateur, just look how Frenda kicked her ass.

Misaki, I don't think so, she must be even less capable than Mikoto.


He must be like Fiamma, once you reach a certain level you r nigh invulnerable to any kind of effects from spells or attacks. Fiamma had his protection from his HR and used against Index's mind poison but once he lost it on his defeat he started to suffer the consequences.
Thank you for your answers. It seems to me that Misaki holds her own better in combat when fighting as part of a team, but I guess there's a reason why Mental Out is of a different league than most esper powers.
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