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View Poll Results: Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 27 32.53%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 43 51.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 9.64%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 6.02%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-06-23, 15:09   Link #41
Funkatron
King of the Castle
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helius View Post
Chances are the Gargantians don't know what the key does. But referring to it as a "Stairway to Heaven" seems to imply something that...shoots into the sky, or vice versa. The wormhole device immediately comes to mind.
If I have some big deus ex machina final trump card weapon passed down from my predecessor, I'd sure as heck want to know what it does before I even THINK about turning the key. Ridget seems smart enough to ask that much. Oldham should know at least that much.

"Yeah, here you go new leader! Magic key that will save us!"
"What does it do?"
"Save us!"
"How?"
Who cares!"
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Old 2013-06-23, 15:10   Link #42
RobotCat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I'm just somewhat disappointed that they let Kugel be dead after all. If Ledo really had to go up against Kugel's ambitions, that would have been delightfully complicated.
Now, he's absolved of that. It's been reduced to a matter of putting down a runaway machine.
Ledo made his decision to oppose Kugel before knowing that Kugel's dead. Now, if he only made this decision after finding out that Kugel's dead then it'd be what you're saying, but in this case, Ledo basically did go against Kugel (or who he thought was Kugel).

Anyways, looks like all the budget cuts from last episode were saved for this episode an the finale.
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Old 2013-06-23, 15:26   Link #43
User210120
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My prediction: next ep they will hunt strike
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Old 2013-06-23, 15:32   Link #44
stormy001_M1A2
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My speculation is the golden key is some kinda access to an orbital launch device similar to historical video when the Evolved nation is sending crafts to space so Striker and Chamber will self destruct in space. Those 2 advanced war machines should have tremendous energy source as propulsion and if even one of them exploded on Earth, it would be equalivent to multiple current modern nuclear rounds in terms of sheer destruction.

Nice ending: Ledo/Red decides to stay on Gargantia and becomes intimate with Amy after Chamber ejected him out of the cockpit to fulfill its last mission in protecting the pilot while it hugged Striker to the orbit for self destruct sequence

Bad ending: In last ditch effort to defeat the rogue war machine, Ledo/Red with his mecha hugged Striker, shoots into orbit and self destruct - a noble self sacrifice.

Crazy ending: GA or Space Hideauze appears in the orbit.
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Old 2013-06-23, 15:37   Link #45
LystAP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2 View Post
My speculation is the golden key is some kinda orbital launch device similar to historical video when the Evolved nation is sending crafts to space so Striker and Chamber will self destruct in space. Those 2 advanced war machines should have tremendous energy source and if even one of them exploded on Earth, it would be equalivent to multiple current modern nuclear rounds being exploded.

Nice ending: Ledo/Red decides to stay on Gargantia and becomes intimate with Amy after Chamber ejected him out of the cockpit to fulfill its last mission in protecting the pilot while it hugged Striker to the orbit for self destruct sequence

Bad ending: In last ditch effort to defeat the rogue war machine, Ledo/Red with his mecha hugged Striker, shoots into orbit and self destruct - a noble self sacrifice.

Crazy ending: GA or Space Hideauze appears in the orbit.
Urobutcher Ending: Bad ending + Hidueaze AND GA appearing in orbit and horde of evolved whalesquid descending on Gargantia/Cultist Remnant fleet looking for revenge.
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Old 2013-06-23, 15:42   Link #46
Kaoru Chujo
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Enjoyable episode, but it just helps the whole series seem rushed and shallower than it could have been. Perhaps it's just my romance-oholism, but it seems to me that they wasted a lot of time through the series that they could have used to develop more of an emotional relationship between Ledo and Amy. Now we get reveal 1 (Kugel's survival), reveal 2 (his non-survival) and reveal 3 (the key) in three episodes.

Great quick-flying fighting scenes. Good partial rehabilitation for both the Lobster Lady and Pinion. Personally, I want the whale-squids to emerge as intelligent and befriendable, but that would be another too-quick reveal. Maybe the key calls in the whale-squids? I'm perfectly happy that Kugel is dead and a machine caliber other than Chamber is the bad buy. But the way Chamber found justification for obeying Ledo rather than the representative of his former rulers seemed a bit of a trick.

Fine series, but like many, it could have been better.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2013-06-23 at 15:58.
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Old 2013-06-23, 15:47   Link #47
Tranhieu
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I don't really get why Chamber is unable to comprehend the legitimacy of going against Commander's orders. Technically speaking, a soldier has to obey whatever his Commander's order is, and disregarding it means treason. A computer should understand at least that much, or the GA forgot to program him before he left the factory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helius View Post
Chances are the Gargantians don't know what the key does. But referring to it as a "Stairway to Heaven" seems to imply something that...shoots into the sky, or vice versa. The wormhole device immediately comes to mind.
No, it's that huge sprinkler.
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Old 2013-06-23, 15:49   Link #48
apotheosis
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I'm disappointed Kugel is dead. I think it would have been far more interesting to have a long back and forth between him & Ledo about what the proper society is for the earthlings. Now it just feels black vs white with the computer blindly following GA protocol, instead of Kugel believing the GA way needed to be carried out on Gargantia.

I suppose there's only 1 episode left, so they just did not have time for that ..

Honestly I'm not much of fan of either GA or Gargantia's current society (though I can excuse GA more in their actual evironment than Gargantia on Earth). I hope they will at least hint that something between "happy go lucky with no real progress" and "space nazis" is possible for Earth. Even if Chamber is destroyed, there's always Pinion and his machines I suppose.
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Old 2013-06-23, 15:57   Link #49
LystAP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranhieu View Post
I don't really get why Chamber is unable to comprehend the legitimacy of going against Commander's orders. Technically speaking, a soldier has to obey whatever his Commander's order is, and disregarding it means treason. A computer should understand at least that much, or the GA forgot to program him before he left the factory?


No, it's that huge sprinkler.
Not necessarily, Chamber did note that Striker was acting out of habit for Galactic Alliance military protocol, nor could Chamber rationalize that "Kugel"'s actions were as a member of the Galactic Alliance, or determine if it was something "Kugel" did independently; thus why he deferred to Ledo's judgment.

Chamber could conclude and perhaps did, that "Kugel"'s actions could be seen as corrupt, and as the next highest ranking GA officer, Ledo could be authorized to remove "Kugel" from command.
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Old 2013-06-23, 16:08   Link #50
hai_san
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haha so the Endboss is Striker Machina, seem due to the death of Kugel and without any guidance it developes an own will to pacify the planet and make it 2nd avalon... somehow it makes me fear that the real Avalon and the GA could have the same fate... somewhere a computer AI is controlling the humans to eradicate the Hideauze just to have the human having a task... Matrix/Terminator somehow...living while being controlled.
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Old 2013-06-23, 16:10   Link #51
stormy001_M1A2
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When Chamber requesting Colonel's health data, I suspect that is when the AI is crosschecking the military protocol to see if something amiss.
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Old 2013-06-23, 16:30   Link #52
mikeomni
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It figures that death is an endemic disease. The question is, when did Kugel die? Judging from the long hair and unshaven face, he was alive for a while since he entered that Striker. Did the MC Caliber kill him or was it other causes? He decomposed immediately after exposure to atmosphere while he seemed peacefully asleep. Sure it was dramatic, seemed kind of pointless to preserve the body unless (a) he was in stasis when he died (b) the MC was trying to preserve him for revival by an expert medical team.

The least ominous possibility, Striker put Kugel in stasis like Chamber did to Ledo when they went through the wormhole. Kugel couldn't be revived, so it went into "autopilot" which makes sense to keep the command structure operating despite the death of the superior officer. Of course, another officer can later assume command ... they could have "ai shotgun" programs for rogue MC like those omega worms in the Bolo series.

Most ominous possibility, Kugel has been dead since the before of the last battle. Space human bodies are flawed and do not work passed a certain service length. Which is why they are meant to reproduce once they reach 16. Ledo will learn he won't live beyond 2x age like Kugel. The GA is a human farm.

The Stairway to Heaven looks like it could be a power receiver. I'd imagine you need a lot of energy to fire magnetic space launchers. It may even be externally powered by orbiting solar collectors. Of course it is too strong to use for powering office equipment and ships in its original form. But may be able to pick up trickle charges from the sea galaxies which you could use to power a floating city. Once you use the key, you turn the core of gargantia into a spinal gun /yamato cannon with dire consequences. Which would further explain the indifference to Ledo's firepower in the start of the series, they had this trump card.
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Old 2013-06-23, 16:42   Link #53
DuelGundam2099
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So a rebellion just happened without any build up? Not that I am complaining though, this series was overdue for an action scene and it looks the wait was worth it depending on how they finish it next week. Either way, Surfing Lobster has now been mass produced.

On a related note I don't care if there is a massive casualty rate next episode or not just because of this Gen guy being on staff. I also don't see how people are calling this series dark/murder-fest, only two named people died so far.
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Old 2013-06-23, 16:42   Link #54
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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At first I was disappointed because it turned out Kugel was just out to create his own slice of paradise inspired by self-centeredness and megalomania. Order without purpose, a cargo cult-like imitation of the GA.

And then I was even more disappointed because it turned out it was just an AI gone crazy.

Why couldn't it have been a compelling villain with valid reasons for his actions?
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Old 2013-06-23, 16:49   Link #55
mikeomni
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
At first I was disappointed because it turned out Kugel was just out to create his own slice of paradise inspired by self-centeredness and megalomania. Order without purpose, a cargo cult-like imitation of the GA.

And then I was even more disappointed because it turned out it was just an AI gone crazy.

Why couldn't it have been a compelling villain with valid reasons for his actions?
It still could be. What we are seeing as a megalomaniac AI maybe someone's idea of a emergency protocol. Imagine in space you have adults and children in various stages of development. If all your adults got killed you need some way to ensure the next generation survives to fulfill the mission. The parameters may have been set up for pure survival mode. Discard defects, keep the best and ensure continued operation. If the exit threshold was set too high or not achievable then the machine stays in the loop.

Terrorist attack ...enforce martial law ... reduce civil liberties for greater protection until terror "goes away". Natural disaster ... enforce rationing until resources are in surplus. Sound familiar? It's not the right way to live. But it is a way to live ... some people say this is justifiable ... other will argue it isn't. My bar for humanity is a bit higher than merely living and breathing ... an acquired first world mentality.
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Old 2013-06-23, 16:57   Link #56
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by mikeomni View Post
It still could be. What we are seeing as a megalomaniac AI maybe someone's idea of a emergency protocol. Imagine in space you have adults and children in various stages of development. If all your adults got killed you need some way to ensure the next generation survives to fulfill the mission. The parameters may have been set up for pure survival mode. Discard defects, keep the best and ensure continued operation. If the exit threshold was set too high or not achievable then the machine stays in the loop.

Terrorist attack ...enforce martial law ... reduce civil liberties for greater protection. Natural disaster ... enforce rationing. Sound familiar? It's not the right way to live. But it is a way to live ... some people say this is justifiable ... other will argue it isn't. My bar for humanity is a bit higher than merely living and breathing ... an acquired first world mentality.
Still an AI gone crazy. Or it wouldn't have tried to deceive Ledo, and it would put more of an accent on restoring what it recognize as civilization than on conquest. In other words, more education and no overtaxing of its assimilation capabilities.
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Old 2013-06-23, 17:00   Link #57
LystAP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
At first I was disappointed because it turned out Kugel was just out to create his own slice of paradise inspired by self-centeredness and megalomania. Order without purpose, a cargo cult-like imitation of the GA.

And then I was even more disappointed because it turned out it was just an AI gone crazy.

Why couldn't it have been a compelling villain with valid reasons for his actions?
In my opinion as I thought earlier, they might have made a opponent like that, perhaps developed Kugel more had they more time. But with only one episode left, they went the fast route.
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Old 2013-06-23, 17:07   Link #58
mikeomni
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Still an AI gone crazy. Or it wouldn't have tried to deceive Ledo, and it would put more of an accent on restoring what it recognize as civilization than on conquest. In other words, more education and no overtaxing of its assimilation capabilities.
You could be right, given that Chamber showed some independent analysis, that Striker simply broke.

I'm saying the deception may be built in to the command units. It's running as designed. What we view as crazy is something a person up the chain decided was an expedient solution. In "emergency" situations some humans program in weird things that appear justifiable in their context. If you see an injured fellow, the human response should be to aid him. But if the cause of his injury, say a fire / tiger/ sniper, is also a threat to your survival it may prevent you from rendering aid. Until the story ends, this reason may still be lurking.
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Old 2013-06-23, 17:12   Link #59
Anh_Minh
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Well, yes. "Crazy" AIs generally act as programmed. It's just that someone didn't think things through, or they're in a context the AI wasn't designed for.
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Old 2013-06-23, 17:17   Link #60
mikeomni
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Well, yes. "Crazy" AIs generally act as programmed. It's just that someone didn't think things through, or they're in a context the AI wasn't designed for.
The beauty of sci-fi it exposes both the optimism and frailty of humans. We live with these kinds of problems everyday. Everytime I travel by plane I see these compromises in action. Someone from a different time would say we are crazy ... who is sane ... the "crazy" fellow or the person arguing with him?
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