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Old 2013-07-03, 18:19   Link #41
Owlman
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Him being hurt by Kakashi in such a low level way still doesn't make sense. So it doesn't matter what happens in this chapter or in any chapter after this, in the last chapter Obito's performance was simply nonsense.
I agree, he couldve done far more than he did, but somehow I think most of the problem was about who was going to kill the "leader of Akatsuki", rather than how he was killed. If Naruto did what Kakashi just did with a rasengan, I doubt we'd get the same amount of complaints.
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Old 2013-07-03, 18:32   Link #42
Ero-Senn1n
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I still expect that Obito will somehow become a Narutard
So i don't think he will be killed in a battle, i mean not by the good guys. I don't know how we will get to that point, but with all the build up until now i would be disappointed if he just died in a big fight. Now he even met Minato, and the only one who's missing now is Rin. I wouldn't be surprised if for the next chapter Kishi went for the extreme: suddenly we are inside Obito's eternal tsukiyomi where Rin is his girlfriend, the Uchiha clan is alive in Konoha and Naruto is hokage as he promised to him, etc. An idyllic world that would slowly fall apart or Obito slowly realizes how empty this fake world is. Also Sasuke and Madara could have a major role in breaking the idyllic picture because their eyes should give them some level of immunity against the tsukiyomi (especially Sasuke since he has Itachi's eyes). For this dream world Kishi could also create some interesting artistic drawings, that would be fun. We know that the 10-tails that he is using is imperfect, that is an obvious sign that Obito's dream will have to fall apart when the 10-tails inside him breaks down. If he breaks down when his dream fails and cries or something like that i'm sure Naruto will be there to help him (at that point Madara should try to use him again, also the alliance along with Sasuke will try to kill him) and at that point Obito will be convereted by Naruto.
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Old 2013-07-03, 19:21   Link #43
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When I saw the title of the chapter, I automatically assumed that it had to have been Madara... Was pleasantly surprised by the twist.

Felt a little too convenient for Minato's mark to still be present on Obito's body, but I like that the Fourth is aware of who he's facing now and who he faced then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I still expect that Obito will somehow become a Narutard
So i don't think he will be killed in a battle, i mean not by the good guys. I don't know how we will get to that point, but with all the build up until now i would be disappointed if he just died in a big fight. Now he even met Minato, and the only one who's missing now is Rin. I wouldn't be surprised if for the next chapter Kishi went for the extreme: suddenly we are inside Obito's eternal tsukiyomi where Rin is his girlfriend, the Uchiha clan is alive in Konoha and Naruto is hokage as he promised to him, etc. An idyllic world that would slowly fall apart or Obito slowly realizes how empty this fake world is. Also Sasuke and Madara could have a major role in breaking the idyllic picture because their eyes should give them some level of immunity against the tsukiyomi (especially Sasuke since he has Itachi's eyes). For this dream world Kishi could also create some interesting artistic drawings, that would be fun. We know that the 10-tails that he is using is imperfect, that is an obvious sign that Obito's dream will have to fall apart when the 10-tails inside him breaks down. If he breaks down when his dream fails and cries or something like that i'm sure Naruto will be there to help him (at that point Madara should try to use him again, also the alliance along with Sasuke will try to kill him) and at that point Obito will be convereted by Naruto.
That's an interesting take on what'll happen next. Though I don't see Obito, as broken as he is, having the kind of feelings that would lead him to realizing that life inside the genjutsu Matrix is empty. As "real" as Tsukuyomi's impact on the senses is, I think he'd be satisfied.

But having the dream world break down and dissipate because the Ten Tails was incomplete.. that'd make sense. And I'd expect that you'd be right about Sasuke/Madara being able to resist Tobi's illusion to some extent, especially since we've already seen Sasuke overcome Itachi's Tsukuyomi.

On another note: I kinda want to see Obito wreak havoc on the Alliance first. That's a more Madara-esque course of action but after that nonsensical flop of a fight Obito put up against Kakashi... c'mon. lol
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Old 2013-07-03, 19:23   Link #44
Typeblue
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There are still about a dozen loose ends in the plot related to Obito, even if some of them are never heard off again a few are bound to be addressed eventually.

I don't think you understand what linear thinking means.

It has been hinted that Obito intended to double cross Madara since a little more than 70 chapters but if you think this made a difference in the discussion about his worth as a villain you really don't understand the reason people have a problem with Tobito.
Perhaps, however, people in this forum sometimes dissect the manga chapter by chapter. And when they do that, they miss the big picture
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Old 2013-07-03, 19:38   Link #45
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That's always a possibility, what big picture do you think was missed?
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Old 2013-07-03, 20:13   Link #46
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
In this manga there are "geniuses" who are able to do that and Kakashi is one of them.
but so is obito it would be nonsensical for kakashi to be able to use kamui as effectively as obito. also with the lack of chakra kakashi has it makes it doubly wrong

Quote:
I remember debating whether Obito's jutsu requires MS, and i thought it shouldn't since he is spamming it and that would require not only much chakra but also his eyes should burn out like Sasuke's did.
but back when we had this debate it was speculated that it's due to his zetsu body and hashirama cells that obito can spam whatever he wants. so far, i see no reason to think otherwise

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I did double-check the chapter for signs of that, but i couldn't notice any. There should be at least a minor hint about that happening, otherwise what would be the point of showing us how crappy Obito performed there. If there was a hint we could argue if Obito deliberately missed Kakashi's vital organs with his black rod. Or maybe i missed something in that chapter...
i agree there are no hints, but we do know that obito (as tobi) encountered kakashi several times and never tried to fight him or more significantly, he never tried to take kakashi's sharingan. that was one of the biggest sellers to me of tobi being obito. so now we have this horrible fight where obito seems to barely try compared to what we know he can do. my hunch is that there will be an explanation in the future than obito can't bring himself to kill kakashi out of friendship and that he does still harbor feelings for this real world.

my problem with obito throwing the kakashi fight is that obito started it in the first place...
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Old 2013-07-03, 20:18   Link #47
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That was a little confusing. Madara was indeed going to use the Rinne Tensei, but at the end he seemed fine with how things played out. So Minato figured out it was Obito he was fighting years ago. Though how did Obito become the jinchuriki after he was slashed by Minato. Did Obito call Mianto the friend of the traitor? Did he mean Kakashi for letting Rin die?
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Old 2013-07-03, 20:23   Link #48
Artimus_Prime
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Well at this point it is more likely than not, obito thru the fight against Kakashi... My best guess is that you can't be influenced by tsukiyomi if you are dead.

Anyways, yay obito for becoming the jinchuriki. I hope you shrink back to regular ninja size
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Old 2013-07-03, 20:24   Link #49
Typeblue
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
That's always a possibility, what big picture do you think was missed?
My whole point is "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" we will all just have to wait a few more chapters to see
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Old 2013-07-03, 20:54   Link #50
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Something has been bugging since the 3rd and the rest was brought back to life.

Does this jitsu brings them back at the age they die or in their prime?

Because the 3rd was brought back the same age(from looking at him) he died. But in Madara case he was brought back to life in his prime state. If you check out the first page it shows Madara when he was old and about to die, in the flash back panel. Or did I miss something important in the past chapters about Madara saving Obito?

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Originally Posted by ars89 View Post
Did Obito call Mianto the friend of the traitor? Did he mean Kakashi for letting Rin die?
Wasn't the White Fang(Kakashi's father) called a traitor? Maybe Mianto and Kakashi's father was best buddies.

I'm pretty sure I got Kakashi's father's nickname wrong

Might have been already said but I think the reason Madara wasn't to upset of his failure. Was because as soon as Obito becomes jinchukwhatever it would get out of the 1st jitsu and barrier.

That will give Madara the chance to get a full swing at the first. But I'm pretty sure if that happens the 1st will just put him down again and put his focus on Obito. Leaving Madara to dye his hair pink and going into full emo mode.

Last edited by Hunter; 2013-07-03 at 21:57. Reason: do not triple post
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Old 2013-07-03, 21:33   Link #51
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Po9 View Post
Does this jitsu brings them back at the age they die or in their prime?
the age they die

Quote:
Because the 3rd was brought back the same age(from looking at him) he died. But in Madara case he was brought back to life in his prime state.
kabuto modified the jutsu to bring madara back at his prime state. basically it's plot-kai since edo-old madara would have sucked
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Old 2013-07-03, 22:06   Link #52
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My whole point is "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" we will all just have to wait a few more chapters to see
Yes I understood that, no need to tell me about the forest and the tree next. I'm only asking you to elaborate on what you had precisely in mind when you said this.
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Old 2013-07-04, 00:16   Link #53
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The better translation reads "my fellow judas" so he was talking to sasuke, by comparing the fact that they both left konoha and tried to destroy it

I'm still confused about how this exactly resulted in obito becoming the jinchuuriki? when did he perform the seal? his white hair shows that madara was clearly planning to sacrifice him, so i don't think this is part of madara's plan at all

I can see obitio reviving madara now, and killing him so show the extent of his power (mayeb finally using the wood jutsu just ot mock madara) then there's a flashback showing how obito knew that madara was controlling the mizukage into kidnapping rin, so she'd be killed in front of obito's eyes, and that he decided to play along to get to power to destory madara with his own two hands as revenge and then revive rin, and tsukiyomi the world into how he wants it
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Old 2013-07-04, 00:58   Link #54
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I'm still confused about how this exactly resulted in obito becoming the jinchuuriki? when did he perform the seal? his white hair shows that madara was clearly planning to sacrifice him, so i don't think this is part of madara's plan at all
That's the point I'm confused about as well.
But it's not only about the seal. In his seriously wounded state, how was he able to pull of such a jutsu?

Maybe we get explanations in the next chapter.
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Old 2013-07-04, 01:22   Link #55
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Linear thinking is just being logical,orderly.It's not an insult.Fantasy stories usually make connections between unrelated concepts,being nonlinear.
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Old 2013-07-04, 04:39   Link #56
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Yes I understood that, no need to tell me about the forest and the tree next. I'm only asking you to elaborate on what you had precisely in mind when you said this.
This is an ongoing work of fiction with cliffhangers, twist and curves. Reading this forum, which I love by the way, I have seen many people get upset prematurely over recent developments. No one knows the author's intent, we can only speculate (which is one of the goals of a forum). At any given moment the Author can choose to retcon (a dirty word in this forum) any of our preconceived notions, making any previous conclusions made invalid.

Anyways I have not been disappointed yet by this manga. I think when the manga is over, and people go back and read 14 years worth of content, they might feel the same way (or not), but at least then their disappointment will be justified
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Old 2013-07-04, 05:02   Link #57
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So uh, do people still think it's "Blatantly obvious" that Obito is going to change sides?
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Old 2013-07-04, 05:31   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Typeblue View Post
This is an ongoing work of fiction with cliffhangers, twist and curves. Reading this forum, which I love by the way, I have seen many people get upset prematurely over recent developments. No one knows the author's intent, we can only speculate (which is one of the goals of a forum). At any given moment the Author can choose to retcon (a dirty word in this forum) any of our preconceived notions, making any previous conclusions made invalid.

Anyways I have not been disappointed yet by this manga. I think when the manga is over, and people go back and read 14 years worth of content, they might feel the same way (or not), but at least then their disappointment will be justified
To me Naruto grew less and less important and interesting over the years. I first signed in a couple of years ago to discuss Naruto topics but, in my humble and personal opinion, things got out of hand a long time ago.
I liked the beginning where team work was necessary and good thinking was needed for winning fights. Nowadays everyone has an uber attack which the world has never seen before, everyone can destroy mountains and guys who once were real monsters are sidekicks because they lack strength. That and all those plot holes disappointed me a little bit too much.
I still read the chapters but it's more because it became a habit rather than with OP where I really can't wait till wednesday morning and the next chapter is on
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Old 2013-07-04, 09:23   Link #59
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Juubito should be stronger than Edo madara and hashirama now right? We foresee a powerup for naruto with the other half of ninetails. Maybe madara bestows something to sasuke??
There are still quite a few ppl missing from the battlefield. With the return of the 5 kage I wonder if the Edo kages will somehow be spirited away from the conflict finally leaving it to the living to resolve this.
I do hope tho that we get some version of the infinite tsukiyomi. Maybe doing so will fill in some more gaps in the background story
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Old 2013-07-04, 12:09   Link #60
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in shounen series' it's a pretty much certainty that whenever a large scale technique or plan is talked about, then we will see it at some point. so the chances are extremely high for the moon's eye plan happening at least to an extent with an incomplete juubi. i wouldn't even be that shocked if obito managed to get all of kurama and hachibi and perform a full infinite tsukiyomi. that would just mean that sasuke takes over, saves the world and then resurrects naruto and bee with rinne tensei. or naruto could manage to stay alive through uzumaki prowess long enough for sasuke to finish the job and perhaps put kurama back in naruto to save him. perhaps sasuke takes minato's half of kurama for himself in that case? it is the darker half after all. in any case, usually the worst happens before things get better and in this war's case, the worst would be a complete juubi and perfect infinite tsukiyomi
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