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Old 2014-03-13, 15:03   Link #1261
HandofFate
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dang, I kind of thought of the possibility that he might be going thru the same thing as Goto-san, but didn't expect them to reveal it in the same episode.
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Old 2014-03-13, 15:28   Link #1262
Shadow5YA
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Didn't that god say his next opponent would be a mental battle?

And didn't Masayoshi turn down that offer?
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Old 2014-03-13, 16:13   Link #1263
Faerie
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What on earth is even going on anymore...

First I thought the kid was a second person like Masayoshi (just evil), because of his need to repeat "Flamenco" over and over- statistically inconceivable though. But then they went down the mental battle route. Which is even more weird.
Now I'm just confused. This show. Seriously, this show.. xD
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Old 2014-03-13, 16:15   Link #1264
foxbox360
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After achieving World Peace and defeated evil, what does a superhero do with his life? Create your own villain with your imaginations and contined fighting evil.
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Old 2014-03-13, 16:30   Link #1265
Breimoon
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i think it is the otherway around. That guy continued to say flamenco right? So universe granted his wish
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Old 2014-03-13, 16:49   Link #1266
Goty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullFaerie View Post
First I thought the kid was a second person like Masayoshi (just evil), because of his need to repeat "Flamenco" over and over- statistically inconceivable though. But then they went down the mental battle route. Which is even more weird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breimoon View Post
i think it is the otherway around. That guy continued to say flamenco right? So universe granted his wish
The scene where Haiji Sawada goes "Flamenco, Flamenco" can end up meaning two things:

a) Masayoshi was truly making up the entire story in his head. He's the only one who knows the word Flamenco works like a charm (literally), so it could be just his subconscious acting here.

b) Haiji had a wish and got it granted by accident, so things are actually happening to Masayoshi and people around him, even though he died (or is seen as dead by everyone).

That scene is pretty much the reason i'm still not buying the "he's not real" answer.
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Old 2014-03-13, 17:38   Link #1267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxbox360 View Post
After achieving World Peace and defeated evil, what does a superhero do with his life? Create your own villain with your imaginations and contined fighting evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breimoon View Post
i think it is the otherway around. That guy continued to say flamenco right? So universe granted his wish
It's one or the other, but I'm leaning towards the foxbox360 theory.

Samurai Flamenco hasn't truly overcome his desire to have a villain to fight. Haiji represents that lingering inner desire for conflict, excitement, and being a superhero in a conventional way.

It'll be interesting to see how this all ends up. There's two main possibilities I see here - Hazama grows out of his desire to be a superhero once and for all, or he comes to the viewpoint that a certain degree of evil is necessary in order for good to exist and thrive (reflecting what Haiji himself said earlier).
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Old 2014-03-13, 17:51   Link #1268
KleenexGhost
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This was a heavy episode. I will say that the part involving Sakura was pretty funny. Even though it was messed up on some levels

Goto and Masayoshi needed to have that fight. Masayoshi made a really good point. Brutally honest, but a good point. Goto. I still feel so sorry for the guy. He wasn't just angry as Masa, but probably angry at himself. Mari and now Masayoshi have called him out on what he's going through. He was in the denial phase, but it was good to see him actually lash out. He wants to believe that she's still out there, but at the same time no physical evidence to support that. So if anything he should be able to understand where Masayoshi was coming from. Masayoshi thought that as well.

So if Masayoshi's subconscious desire fight evil is responsible for Sawada, then what party was physically responsible for the attacks on Harazuka, Kaname and the Flamengers?
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Old 2014-03-13, 17:51   Link #1269
Kanon
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I don't think Haiji is a figment of Masayoshi's imagination. Masayoshi himself and pretty much everybody else has already reached that conclusion, and it's too soon for that. There will be another twist. This is Samurai Flamenco we're talking about! It can't be that simple!
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Old 2014-03-13, 17:54   Link #1270
KleenexGhost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I don't think Haiji is a figment of Masayoshi's imagination. Masayoshi himself and pretty much everybody else has already reached that conclusion, and it's too soon for that. There will be another twist. This is Samurai Flamenco we're talking about! It can't be that simple!
Nega-Flamenco?

Masayoshi's evil desires given form. Evil alternate version created by the Will of the Universe? Probably voiced by Koyasu
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Old 2014-03-13, 18:24   Link #1271
amaterasu4
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This episode was kind of like Fight Club.

What confuses me is whether Haiji is really a physical manifestation or Hazama's head is playing tricks with him. Consider everybody he called got attacked in a consistent order. The only ones who weren't attacked were Goto, Mari, etc. However, Goto was attacked by Hazama even if you don't find that that bad so it's really tricky.
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Old 2014-03-13, 18:28   Link #1272
foxbox360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It's one or the other, but I'm leaning towards the foxbox360 theory.

Samurai Flamenco hasn't truly overcome his desire to have a villain to fight. Haiji represents that lingering inner desire for conflict, excitement, and being a superhero in a conventional way.

It'll be interesting to see how this all ends up. There's two main possibilities I see here - Hazama grows out of his desire to be a superhero once and for all, or he comes to the viewpoint that a certain degree of evil is necessary in order for good to exist and thrive (reflecting what Haiji himself said earlier).
I believe the final boss is himself, that he stated at the end of the episode because he can be his own worst enemy. The only way to win is to grow out playing Samurai Flamenco and move on with his life, like a adult because the whole theme about this show are adult who refuse to grow up.
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Old 2014-03-13, 18:41   Link #1273
jeroz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It's one or the other, but I'm leaning towards the foxbox360 theory.

Samurai Flamenco hasn't truly overcome his desire to have a villain to fight. Haiji represents that lingering inner desire for conflict, excitement, and being a superhero in a conventional way.

It'll be interesting to see how this all ends up. There's two main possibilities I see here - Hazama grows out of his desire to be a superhero once and for all, or he comes to the viewpoint that a certain degree of evil is necessary in order for good to exist and thrive (reflecting what Haiji himself said earlier).
I still wonder how much of his parents' murder actually still affects him, despite what he says in ep7.
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Old 2014-03-13, 22:17   Link #1274
mangakid95
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Samumenco just earned the Psychological tag. This series, it really knows how to keep things interesting. It doesn't stay on a dedicated plot point for too long, but rather, uses multiple plot points to keep the story interesting, flowing & it isn't messy either. Even with all these plot points being introduced & juggled, it still manages to tie up most loose ends & transition from arc-to-ac fairly reasonably.

I think the Universe is granting his wishes again. Instead of Haiji being real, Haiji is simply the manifestation of his desires. Using Haiji as the proxy, his desires injure/attack his friends & thus makes the attacks assume physical form.

What I'm trying to say is that Masa is seeing Haiji as the perp, while to those who were attacked, they' were simply either injured by mere coincidence (Harazuka, Kaname) or the manifestation directly attacked them without revealing itself. (Flamenger attacks.) The Universe is one tricky bastard, but I love this new plot point. I'm kinda sad that this only has two episodes left.

A second theory is that Haiji is indeed real, but due to special conditions/circumstances, he's only "existent" in Masa's eyes.
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Old 2014-03-14, 03:51   Link #1275
MisaoFan
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Spoiler for Episode 20:
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Old 2014-03-14, 08:29   Link #1276
Breimoon
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if the title of "the boy from the past" relates not only to 1 year ago but to the time he somehow went back in the past to kill Samumenco's parents? It would create a timeparadox and sorta continue along the haruhi way
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Old 2014-03-14, 09:18   Link #1277
SeijiSensei
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I thought the moment when Haiji mentions Goto's girlfriend was a pretty big tell. As far we know, only Mari and Masa know this fact. If Haiji was a real person, how would he have learned this? He just knows too much about Masayoshi's life to believe he is a separate person.

If true, then the destruction of his apartment is a particularly significant event. All of Masa's ties to his juvenile past were destroyed. Like foxbox360 suggests, perhaps this show is really a coming-of-age tale in rather weird garb.
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Old 2014-03-14, 17:27   Link #1278
Frontier
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What prevents me from just accepting the idea that Sawada is just in Masayoshi's head is that Masayosh did see him in that group in the first episode, and it was before Masayoshi had made the wish that caused the world to shift from "real" to "Tokusatsu." And it's strange that, just after that meeting, he somehow just out of the blue dies. That seems a bit too convenient to me, and in some ways kinda mirrors the disappearance of Goto's GF. I wouldn't be shocked if they end up being interrelated at some point.

Now I can see some of the clues that point in the direction that Masayoshi is just making him up to create a new evil for him to fight, so I understand coming to that conclusion and why Masayoshi would start believing it. But, like Kanon said, it honestly seems just a wee bit too simple a conclusion, especially considering this is Samurai Flamenco after all .

So I feel at least some of it is misdirection, and Masayoshi isn't really inadvertently causing all of this to happen and hurting the people closest to him. If we take Sawada's words at face value, then he could have done the same thing Masayoshi did and alter reality with a wish after constantly saying the word "Flamenco." His wish to be Samurai Flamenco's archenemy might just involve screwing with his mind .

Well, with all his stuff burnt down, I guess Masayoshi isn't going back to his old Samurai Flamenco suit like I expected.

Poor Sakura and Soichi. One loses some of her hair, a woman's pride, the other loses his Red Axe collectibles .

Joji

That scene with Goto and Masayoshi was tough to watch, and Masayoshi made some valid points about Goto's hypocrisy in not believing him. It was even harder seeing Goto angry, which is unlike him to begin with, and turning Masayoshi away after how much he's supported Masayoshi in his own way since the beginning .

Well, whatever may happen, here's hoping the series can end on a high note .
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Old 2014-03-14, 17:58   Link #1279
Breimoon
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if you think about it most part of Masayoshi fights could have been part of his wish from the start that wanted to see Samurai Flamenco shine and that overlapped with Masayoshi's. We know how Masayoshi is and while he wished to be a true hero he did not wish for others to get hurt .
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Old 2014-03-14, 18:38   Link #1280
RoboMambo
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I buy Haiji being a figment of Masayoshi's mind, that probably came about as his way of dealing with Goto's own delusions, but also to give shape to the unknown evil responsible for his gf's dissapearance. For the first time he is dealing with problems that he can't solve as Samurai Flamenco, but he can do it if there's an evil mastermind behind everything. He is taking all the random evil and unfortunate accidents there are, about which he can do nothing and putting it all on Haiji. The big question is whether everything is just bad luck, or if the will of the universe is making Haiji into something more solid than a delusion.

Masayoshi and Goto's fight was great, loved Goto's "You call yourself a hero? Couldn't you at least say she lives on in my heart?"



Totally waiting a "We never needed superheroes, did we?" conclusion.
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