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Old 2013-07-08, 13:50   Link #41
hamazura
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Hah there are many ways to defeat accel... Especially after he got his chocker

1. Use ability to remove oxygen, suffocate him
2. Make him exhaust, possible by real strong man gang him up
3. Use magic or unknown attack which accel dont know its vector law
4. Use curse magic
5. Use touma's "extend my right arm"
6. Kiiihaaaaraaaaa kuuuuun
7. Surprise him, maybe he will surprised and his heart will stop beating
8. It would be cool if awaki can teleport accel heart and then smash it like what killua did
9. Attack him with attack that powerful enough to make accel concentrate 100% on it and then turn off his passive barrier just like when he save last order

Though its become super near-impossible level after he got his black and white wing

Dont know if there are another strategy, im not sure misaka 19990-20.000 can beat him.
I mean look, we know dat clone not very smart or dumb. Shared memory of 10.030 attempt and still surprised when the bullet repelled? Fvk that misaka imotos are idiot -_-
well, despite being idiot over 10.000 time and just spam gun and electric, 10.032 is a fvkin genius to suffocate accel -_-
if the 20.000th imoto fight accel and have power output of mikoto, maybe she coukd beat him with some kind strategy and use dat cocky personality of overpowered accel.
Too bad mikoto is normal student who dont know anything about dark side. If mikoto join dark side, she could gain battle experience and become super strong...
Well dont know about mugino... Despite being a pro, she is Fvkin idiot who only spam her beam gundam laser
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Old 2013-07-08, 19:50   Link #42
Sackett
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Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
...Are you trolling here? Because I literally just explained why that happened in the post you are responding to. He didn't 'turn it off' he was so busy calculating something else he didn't have the spare calculation to make it work by default like it normally does.

It's explained why he can breath and stuff so many times it's not even funny so I'm not even going to bother replying to that.
If he turn it off, then he can turn it off. Where are you getting the idea that he can't?

Where is that said?
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Old 2013-07-08, 20:22   Link #43
dniv
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Can't actually answer because it's spoilers but

Spoiler for Index stuff:
Oh yeah... Doi... I forgot about that... I take it back... but still. He's one of the strongest characters we've seen yet.
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Old 2013-07-08, 20:34   Link #44
Ilidsor
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Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
If he turn it off, then he can turn it off. Where are you getting the idea that he can't?

Where is that said?
Spoiler for Index 2:


It'd never written anywhere because Kamachi expects you to understand it without needing to be told. Please don't pull the bad-writing card again, explaining every little easy-to-figure-out thing would be the bad writing
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Old 2013-07-08, 21:08   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
Spoiler for Index 2:


It'd never written anywhere because Kamachi expects you to understand it without needing to be told. Please don't pull the bad-writing card again, explaining every little easy-to-figure-out thing would be the bad writing
In other words it's your opinion. Considering that Kamachi is not subtle at all in any of his other descriptions of the various character abilities or limitations I don't see why I should accept your opinion that he is being subtle here.

As for bad writing, I will repeat: Kamachi sucks as a writer. I have read plenty of novels translated from Japanese into English. I am usually rather forgiving, because I can tell that things get lost in translation. That is not the case here. Kamachi sucks as a writer, and I don't really care if you fanboys say otherwise.

He lectures the reader, which is annoying as all get out. He repeatedly likes to deceive the reader into thinking a character is villain before revealing it was a misunderstanding - which would be okay, except that he flat out tells you that the character is a villain before telling you later that it wasn't true after all. (Plus after the third or fourth time happening it becomes rather predictable and boring). It's one of the reasons why his insistence on telling instead of showing is so terrible. If you show a character doing something and thus deceive the reader it's because the reader is making the same misjudgement as the protagonist. If you use an omniscient view to tell the reader one thing, and then later say it was untrue - that's just bad writing. His plots are confusing (with a few exceptions, such as the Sister's Arc). He rarely shows character development through actions, instead just dumping on you the "inner thoughts" of the characters as they do some navel gazing.

It's not exactly a secret that his writing is terrible. The western author he reminds me most of is George Lucas. Great imagination and creativity, but he really needs co-authors to polish his work into something smoother and better refined. The Railgun manga is an example of this occurring.
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Old 2013-07-08, 21:27   Link #46
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In other words it's your opinion. Considering that Kamachi is not subtle at all in any of his other descriptions of the various character abilities or limitations I don't see why I should accept your opinion that he is being subtle here.
It's not subtly it's just plain not feeling the need to explain. If Accelerator could turn off his reflection he would have. There's literally no need to bring that up in any way. Does he feel the need to explain that Kamijou can't turn off his imagine breaker?
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Old 2013-07-08, 23:19   Link #47
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How did a thread about how to beat Accelerator turn into whether or not Kamachi is a good writer.
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Old 2013-07-08, 23:39   Link #48
hyl
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How did a thread about how to beat Accelerator turn into whether or not Kamachi is a good writer.
Because Accelerator's powers are pure PIS?
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Old 2013-07-08, 23:51   Link #49
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Let's go back to the topic at hand. If people can't do that, they don't need to keep on posting here.
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Old 2013-07-09, 00:07   Link #50
dniv
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Exclamation

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Let's go back to the topic at hand. If people can't do that, they don't need to keep on posting here.


Like I said. His weaknesses are probably his ego and his naivety at the fact that the clones are actually human. Accelerator separates the experiment from his personal life... he doesn't like to kill "good, innocent" humans.

So: beating him up even a little and psychologically traumatizing him might work?

BTW: answering Sackett's point briefly anyway... in a way that relates to to defeating Accelerator:

Spoiler for Accelerator vs. that Kihara analysis of battle; basically what chaos says 2 posts down.... ;):


So I don't see why you guys' are really having the argument in the first place...

Last edited by dniv; 2013-07-09 at 02:59.
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Old 2013-07-09, 00:39   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Spoiler for future novels:
Spoiler for Spoiler for same future novel:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
Now that I think about it isn't there a really simple spell that defeats flying people? It's the reason so few magicians fly iirc. If that doesn't use any vectors than pretty much any magician could beat Accelerator if he decides to start using his tornadoes.
I'm pretty sure that spell just works on people using magic to fly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Actually he does have a setting for "reflect everything" (which does have the draw back you describe) he even has a setting for "reflect everything except for specific exceptions" and that is his usual default setting before being injured.

It's not that Accelerator is unbeatable, just that for most people beating him requires a non-reflectable attack with surprise and speed sufficient to defeat Accelerator before he figures out how to counter it. An attack that confuses Accelerator (such as magic) is a plus.
Spoiler for Spoilers for future events in LN:
Spoiler for Spoiler for novel events:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
Spoiler for Index 2:
Spoiler for Index 2:
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Old 2013-07-09, 02:52   Link #52
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by SilverTalon View Post
Spoiler for Index 2:
He can, and it's been done before.

Spoiler for However, Index 2:
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Old 2013-07-09, 03:01   Link #53
dniv
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
He can, and it's been done before.

Spoiler for However, Index 2:
The main point after all is that Accelerator is
Spoiler for Railgun S episode 15 ; how much Accelerator works out ;) :
so like Chaos said it wouldn't do any good.
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Old 2013-07-09, 08:41   Link #54
Ilidsor
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Originally Posted by SilverTalon View Post

I'm pretty sure that spell just works on people using magic to fly.
Ah. my bad then.

Quote:
Spoiler for Index 2:
Well he can "turn on" other parts sure, we've seen him do that. But we've never seen him able to turn off his basic threat reflection, so I assume he can't. Maybe he can and like Chaos said it just wouldn't matter against Amata, but it seems simpler to just assume he can't.

All I want to say is that it was no plot hole.

Back to the topic on hand, I wonder if Accel could fight off telepathy? I'm inclined to think he can since Mikoto can so it's obviously something that can be 'blocked' but does anybody know for sure?
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Old 2013-07-09, 09:38   Link #55
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Spoiler for F*cking big spoiler:
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Old 2013-07-09, 09:44   Link #56
Chaos2Frozen
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^
The short answer is no.

The details can be discussed in the Index subforums as it's too spoilerish for here.
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Old 2013-07-09, 12:16   Link #57
Tranhieu
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I actually feel a bit skeptical about the idea of suffocating him. We all know that Accelerator can control any vectors, even at submolecular level. If he were to be in a situation where all the oxygen around is sucked out, the guy might as well create oxygen himself out of something else by rearranging electrons, nuclei, quarks and so on right?

And going by that logic he can regenerate himself if any part of his body (except vital ones) gets blown off in battles?
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Old 2013-07-09, 13:06   Link #58
Ilidsor
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Originally Posted by Tranhieu View Post
I actually feel a bit skeptical about the idea of suffocating him. We all know that Accelerator can control any vectors, even at submolecular level. If he were to be in a situation where all the oxygen around is sucked out, the guy might as well create oxygen himself out of something else by rearranging electrons, nuclei, quarks and so on right?

And going by that logic he can regenerate himself if any part of his body (except vital ones) gets blown off in battles?
I don't think he has that good control. Fixing LO's brain took all of his calculation power alone, so something like that would probably be beyond him. It would be much simpler to fix the suffocation by controlling the wind to blow the ozone away.

Spoiler for LN Volume 22:
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Old 2013-07-09, 15:30   Link #59
LazyHunter
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Originally Posted by hamazura View Post
Hah there are many ways to defeat accel... Especially after he got his chocker
1. Would only work if Accelerator would just stand there and let you do that, which didn't work for Misaka 10032 He can always move the air around him to gather more oxygen.
2. Before the choker this is practically impossible. After the choker, sure, if you have enough people than he can't take in 15 (later 30) minutes. This time limit is his first weakness but you need to be strong enought o survive against him that long and still have strenght to beat him.
Spoiler for LN spoiler:

3. Unknown vector like Dark Matter would take a few tries for Accelerator to incorporate them to his Reflect, so sure, an attack powerful enough to kill him in one blow would work.
Spoiler for LN spoiler:

4. We still don't know how "curse" magic works. If the curse magic doesn't have vector
Spoiler for LN spoiler:
then yes, this his second weakness.
5. Ignoring that
6. Ignoring that(Though if you'r referring to Amata's technique, then yes, this is his third weakness)
7. Ignoring that.
8. We don't know much about how teleporters work in Toaru save the fact that they calculate on the 11th dimension, but they still have vectors so no.
9. The strenght of the attack should be irrelevant to Reflect. It's not a big calculus to just invert the movement vector The situation with Last Order was special because he was basically working at neuronal level erasing the virus.

Quote:
if the 20.000th imoto fight accel and have power output of mikoto, maybe she coukd beat him with some kind strategy and use dat cocky personality of overpowered accel.
Too bad mikoto is normal student who dont know anything about dark side. If mikoto join dark side, she could gain battle experience and become super strong...
The sisters and Mikoto never had a chance against Accelerator, no matter what they tried. If Mikoto had joined the darkness her powers wouldn't become stronger. She would be more ruthless but I don't see how that would help. She would be more willing to use lethal attacks against Accelerator that he would reflect and killed her with.
Quote:
Well dont know about mugino... Despite being a pro, she is Fvkin idiot who only spam her beam gundam laser
She's not and idiot, but there's just so much you can do with a power so focused on destruction like hers is. Not only she uses lasers, she figured out a way to compensate her limit of simultaneous beams using silicon cards, she can use her power as a shield, as a recoil boost, as prothesys and she's a good hand to hand fighter. And strong enough to throw Hamazura around with one normal arm. But she doesn't stand a chance against Accelerator.
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Old 2013-07-09, 16:15   Link #60
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Originally Posted by LazyHunter View Post
The sisters and Mikoto never had a chance against Accelerator, no matter what they tried. If Mikoto had joined the darkness her powers wouldn't become stronger. She would be more ruthless but I don't see how that would help. She would be more willing to use lethal attacks against Accelerator that he would reflect and killed her with.
Let me put one hypothetical situation.

Spoiler for LN:
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