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View Poll Results: To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S - Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 51 49.04%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 33 31.73%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 11.54%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 6.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.96%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-09-29, 10:19   Link #161
Haak
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It doesn't have anything to do with logic.
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Old 2013-09-29, 12:06   Link #162
Ilidsor
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Exactly. It doesn't. He's the kind of person who likes to crush his enemies head on, and therefore that's what he tried to do.
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Old 2013-09-29, 21:35   Link #163
dniv
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It doesn't have anything to do with logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor View Post
Exactly. It doesn't. He's the kind of person who likes to crush his enemies head on, and therefore that's what he tried to do.
It should be apparent by now that the execution of stuff that Kamachi directly writes has tended to rely on the personalities of the characters involved for successful resolution (up til now in railgun). He tends to give this detail a lot of good attention. This is why character personalities are so important when considering anything canon to the plot. This is also why things like this hinge on the fact that Accelerator is the type of person who wants to attack his opponent head on...
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Old 2013-09-30, 07:02   Link #164
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Exactly. It doesn't. He's the kind of person who likes to crush his enemies head on, and therefore that's what he tried to do.
That shouldn't stop emotions from telling yo stay the hell away from Touma.

And no, he's actually the type of person who throws things first or lets his shield deflect everything. Hence why his initial thought was to use the wind which was blocked.
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Old 2013-09-30, 07:39   Link #165
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That shouldn't stop emotions from telling yo stay the hell away from Touma.

And no, he's actually the type of person who throws things first or lets his shield deflect everything. Hence why his initial thought was to use the wind which was blocked.
Again I don't think you understand that emotions != logic. People get the urge to do illogical things sometimes, particularly when they are that angry and/or in a fight.

He threw things at Touma back when he was toying with him and didn't take it seriously. The second he started to see Touma as a threat he started trying to attack him close distance. Controlling the wind felt like moving his arms and legs to him. It felt personal.
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Old 2013-09-30, 08:32   Link #166
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Again I don't think you understand that emotions != logic. People get the urge to do illogical things sometimes, particularly when they are that angry and/or in a fight.
And I specifically explained how his emotions should be telling him to stay away regardless of what logic says. O don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this.


Quote:
He threw things at Touma back when he was toying with him and didn't take it seriously. The second he started to see Touma as a threat he started trying to attack him close distance. Controlling the wind felt like moving his arms and legs to him. It felt personal.
The second he started to see Touma as a threat, he caused an explosion so you're wrong there too. And in the novel even after he got punched he tried to throw something at him. Controlling the wind is like moving his arms and legs? Where are you getting that? He only just learned to use it...
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Old 2013-09-30, 09:24   Link #167
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And I specifically explained how his emotions should be telling him to stay away regardless of what logic says.
Nobody here agrees with you on that. So you can say it a thousand times over, and it's not going to change anybody's mind. Most people here can easily see how Accelerator's emotions could cause him to want to finish off Touma up close and personal.

It's pretty obvious you're carrying on this debate to legitimize what Mikoto did at the end of Episode 22 (i.e. "Well, it's not like she acted any worse than Accelerator did in Episode 16").

Accelerator made a mistake for understandable emotional reasons. But Mikoto had no logical or emotional reason to agree to Aritomi's demands.

Now, did what Mikoto do in Episode 22 completely ruin the final arc of this season? No. You can argue that Mikoto had a rough day, and so she did something dumb. But obviously many of her fans aren't going to like that, and so are going to have issues with the scene. It can be very aggravating when one of your favorite characters is forced by the plot to do something dumb that you'd expect him/her to be smart enough to avoid doing.
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Old 2013-09-30, 10:57   Link #168
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Nobody here agrees with you on that. So you can say it a thousand times over, and it's not going to change anybody's mind. Most people here can easily see how Accelerator's emotions could cause him to want to finish off Touma up close and personal.
That still doesn't make it true.

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It's pretty obvious you're carrying on this debate to legitimize what Mikoto did at the end of Episode 22 (i.e. "Well, it's not like she acted any worse than Accelerator did in Episode 16")..
Actually, this is just an example to show how there are questionable moments throughout the series if you look hard enough. This is just one of them. I'm not comparing Accelerator's actions to Mikoto's specifically. I also explained the whole schtick about how Touma's plan relied on an incredibly ambiguous plot device for this reason.
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Last edited by Haak; 2013-09-30 at 11:31.
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Old 2013-09-30, 10:59   Link #169
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And I specifically explained how his emotions should be telling him to stay away regardless of what logic says. O don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this.
How long are you going to continually ignore his personality and insist that he should be feeling what you would be feeling?

Quote:
The second he started to see Touma as a threat, he caused an explosion so you're wrong there too. And in the novel even after he got punched he tried to throw something at him. Controlling the wind is like moving his arms and legs? Where are you getting that? He only just learned to use it...
He caused that explosion when Touma touched his hand. That didn't make him a threat it made him a shock and an annoyance. I got him claiming that controlling the wind felt like moving his hands and arms from him saying controlling the winds felt like moving his hands and arms.
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Old 2013-09-30, 11:12   Link #170
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How long are you going to continually ignore his personality and insist that he should be feeling what you would be feeling?
How long are you going to insist it's his personality and not just a contrived method of getting him to do what the plot wanted?

Quote:
He caused that explosion when Touma touched his hand. That didn't make him a threat it made him a shock and an annoyance.
I'm talking about the dust explosion right after he said he was starting to get annoyed with Touma.

Quote:
I got him claiming that controlling the wind felt like moving his hands and arms from him saying controlling the winds felt like moving his hands and arms.
Yeah, you've got understand the the context. He was talking about how it was all under his control now. It didn't suggest that his new found power was more reflexive than anything else.
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Old 2013-09-30, 11:34   Link #171
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How long are you going to insist it's his personality and not just a contrived method of getting him to do what the plot wanted?
Because he's been like that in every other thing he's done in the series too, for better or worse.

Quote:
I'm talking about the dust explosion right after he said he was starting to get annoyed with Touma.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. At that point Touma had only touched his hand. He hadn't hit him back at all.

Quote:
Yeah, you've got understand the the context. He was talking about how it was all under his control now. It didn't suggest that his new found power was more reflexive than anything else.
He literally used the line "It's like my own body, like moving my arms and legs." (Railgun manga). Unless the translators really messed up the line, that means it was instinctual for him.
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Old 2013-09-30, 11:45   Link #172
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He literally used the line "It's like my own body, like moving my arms and legs." (Railgun manga). Unless the translators really messed up the line, that means it was instinctual for him.
Two scans and an official translation had something along those lines. Unless he is trying to insinuate that two translators and a professional got it wrong, you are right about this.
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Old 2013-09-30, 11:49   Link #173
Haak
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Because he's been like that in every other thing he's done in the series too, for better or worse.
He hasn't but whatever.

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That's exactly what I'm talking about. At that point Touma had only touched his hand. He hadn't hit him back at all.
Accelerator fighting Touma up close after he gets hit wasn't showing how he fights when he gets serious. He just kept going in up close to Touma because he was angry at why his powers wouldn't work. It wasn't instinctual. He was just being stubborn. But he didn't care about that in the final attack.


Quote:
He literally used the line "It's like my own body, like moving my arms and legs." (Railgun manga). Unless the translators really messed up the line, that means it was instinctual for him.
No, like I said. He was excited about getting a new power that was under his control. He didn't mean it literally.
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Old 2013-09-30, 11:57   Link #174
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How long are you going to insist it's his personality
It is his personality. Accelerator is a proud alpha male. His whole goal was to become so powerful that nobody would even dare challenge him. How much more "proud alpha male" can you get?

Granted, Accelerator also had inner altruistic reasons for wanting to be that powerful, but there's no question that being "top dog" appeals to him emotionally.

So here's this Level 0 nobody that's actually putting up a decent fight against Accelerator, and refuses to go down. Of course that's pissing off Accelerator, making Accelerator want to kill this nobody up close and personal.


Now, was Accelerator wanting this convenient to the plot? Yes, it is.

But this is the difference between good writing and bad writing.

Good writing manages to get the plot points it wants by using established characterization to get there. Bad writing manages to get the plot points it wants by forcing characters to act OoC.
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Old 2013-09-30, 12:14   Link #175
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Like I said: His "proud alpha male"ness had nothing to do with his final attack. He attacked Touma because he feared him.

And even if he is a proud alpha male type, that doesn't mean he prefers up close and personal attacks any more than reflective attacks or throwing things or using wind.
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Old 2013-09-30, 13:09   Link #176
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He hasn't but whatever.
What show are you watching? I can't go into specific's here but just look at the 2nd last arc in Index II. Look at what happens there.

Quote:
Accelerator fighting Touma up close after he gets hit wasn't showing how he fights when he gets serious. He just kept going in up close to Touma because he was angry at why his powers wouldn't work. It wasn't instinctual. He was just being stubborn. But he didn't care about that in the final attack.
Where are you getting that from?

Quote:
No, like I said. He was excited about getting a new power that was under his control. He didn't mean it literally.
Well I sure am glad that you have the psychic power to read the minds of fictional characters and know he didn't actually mean what he said.

Quote:
And even if he is a proud alpha male type, that doesn't mean he prefers up close and personal attacks any more than reflective attacks or throwing things or using wind.
We know he prefers up close and personal attacks because he's always done up close and personal attacks, or attacks with the wind whenever he's facing someone that's a serious threat.
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Old 2013-09-30, 16:58   Link #177
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Actually, this is just an example to show how there are questionable moments throughout the series if you look hard enough.
Sure, but not all questionable moments are equally bad and/or equally questionable. Some stand-up better under debate and scrutiny than others do.

And from following/participating in both this debate, and the one on the Mikoto Misaka character thread, it's very clear to me that the questionable Accelerator moment stands up better under debate and scrutiny than the end of Episode 22 does.

The filler arc really is more poorly wrote than the Sisters Arc is. Now, that's not to say there's no value in the filler arc, or even that it doesn't have some strengths over the Sisters Arc (more cast involvement, obviously), but it does mean that many hardcore fans will have more issues with the filler arc than they did with the Sisters Arc.


Quote:
I also explained the whole schtick about how Touma's plan relied on an incredibly ambiguous plot device for this reason.
Touma's plan was fine. If a Level 0 single-handedly defeats Accelerator, then yeah, that would understandably make the higher-ups think "Whoa, maybe this guy doesn't have what it takes to reach Level 6 after all".

But yeah, Mikoto and the sisters getting involved makes things more murky, I agree with you there. Still, Touma did almost all of the work in defeating Accelerator, so I can still see the higher-ups having second thoughts due to Accelerator losing to Touma.



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Like I said: His "proud alpha male"ness had nothing to do with his final attack.
I disagree. I think it does. And I think I've done a reasonably good job in supporting my stance there. You have wrote nothing that significantly undermines that.
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Old 2013-09-30, 19:56   Link #178
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At this point Haak pretty much doesn't concedes, I don't see what is the point of repeating the same obvious facts at him if he turns arond and covers his eyes/ears...
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Old 2013-11-01, 03:19   Link #179
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I want to ask one thing about Accelerator's memories/revelation during that episode.
In the manga and in this episode his thoughts were translated equally:
Quote:
Maybe one day, again... If I do that... I will not have to hurt anyone anymore.
And at the same time the picture of him holding another hand was shown.
What did he mean saying 'again' at the beginning? He meant that he would never have to hurt anyone again? Or was this scene of friendship one of his childhood memories and he meant that he would hold that hand/have friend again?
I actually don't think that it was his childhood memory because it can't be possible since he probably never had good relationships with other children (they were afraid of him due to his powers that he couldn't control them properly and hurt ones who tried to get close to him, moreover, he hadn't any classmates at all).
So it was just his imagination that was connected to the dream of not hurting anyone again?(he is admitted, he has not to hurt people and he has friends) And therefore he actually meant that he would never hurt anyone again because till that accident with the military of AC he really never had to hurt people, right?
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Old 2013-11-01, 09:37   Link #180
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He was just a normal kid (well probably a child error) for a while. The horrible experiments/isolation and stuff started happening to him when he was about 6-7 (I think)
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