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Old 2013-08-15, 21:21   Link #21
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
Now what if it happens that you have made the last post, and the thread falls behind Page 1?
If that happens, then no one else had anything to contribute to the thread, and were more interested in other topics, hence those rise to the top. That does not mean the thread should be bumped.

Incidentally, the 10 character limit is just to help people remember the rule about no pointless posts. If someone randomly adds characters just to meet the limit but their post is still pointless, it would still be against the rules anyway.
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Old 2013-08-16, 00:27   Link #22
Daniel E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim
Only the creator of a thread could use it
And yet the problem would remain, because the only excuse to do this would be the "my topic is cooler than yours" mentality; which brings us back to the "No pointless bumps allowed" rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim
I explained everything how this could not be abused in specific,
No, you haven't explained anything. At the very least, you haven't explained why you would bump/favor some threads over others. You have also failed to visualize a scenario were all threads creators would bump their topics one after the other, thus making the initial bumps worthless.
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Old 2013-08-16, 01:57   Link #23
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'd rather wall discussions didn't descend into...

Yo bro! (7 characters)

Wassup? (7 characters)

Yuri! (5 characters)

In what? (8 characters)

YuruYuri (8 characters)

Well duh (8 characters)

plz watch (9 characters)

Ok (2 characters)

Cool (4 characters)


With the 10 character limit, this turns into...

Yo bro! You should be watching YuruYuri! It has yuri in it.

Well duh. Anyway, I'll check it out.

Thanks! I look forward to hearing your take on it.


The 10 character limit actually helps ensure that less time is wasted on numerous very short messages that could be conveyed better in longer but much fewer messages. It also means that for a 3rd person checking out somebody else's wall, the context of each VM is less difficult to piece together.

Now, that being said, the "Yo bro!" chain I showed above kinda fits the easy, breezy style of Social Club chats.
That's each own person's housekeeping preference no? After all, it's your wall and for many (myself included) 75% at least of our activity on AS is via wall messaging/chats

There's many situations where a simple "no"/ "yes" would suffice. I get round the 10 char rule by putting several dots at the end of such replies but apparently some people think it's rude for some reason I cannot grasp...
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Old 2013-08-16, 05:30   Link #24
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
If that happens, then no one else had anything to contribute to the thread, and were more interested in other topics, hence those rise to the top. That does not mean the thread should be bumped.
Quite the opposite.
It might mean that the ones who saw it while it was still on Page 1 did not find it interesting, but what if some did not even have the chance to see it or even judge if it is interesting, but it was on Page 2 at that time? What if some just missed that interval of time while it was still on Page 1?

Bumping would allow those kind of members to spot the thread.

There was also an idea that if the thread would be bumped 3 times, for example, and still no post would be made on it, the Bump option would then be disabled.
The whole idea of Bumping is to let members know that a certain thread exists by letting them see it for themselves on Page 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Incidentally, the 10 character limit is just to help people remember the rule about no pointless posts. If someone randomly adds characters just to meet the limit but their post is still pointless, it would still be against the rules anyway.
AnimeSuki Forums are not the only ones with that specific filter, and I do not find it unhelpful in any way.
In fact, from 10 to 50,000 characters sounds quite reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
And yet the problem would remain, because the only excuse to do this would be the "my topic is cooler than yours" mentality; which brings us back to the "No pointless bumps allowed" rule.
Read my response to Relentlessflame, it is not about how "cool" a topic is, but how spotted it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
No, you haven't explained anything. At the very least, you haven't explained why you would bump/favor some threads over others. You have also failed to visualize a scenario were all threads creators would bump their topics one after the other, thus making the initial bumps worthless.
On this thread, I still haven't.
Also, due to the stream and flow I see on this forums, I didn't think I will, but you seem just so persistent.

First off, as far as I know, the vB 3 Forum Software does not include the Bump option as a default, so a plug-in would be needed, which is yet another issue since more important plug-ins would already be wanted, as well as the Mobile Device Version of the forums as well before that.

Now, let me repeat the main idea for the bumping option to even exist.
It would exist to let as biggest part of the community as possible to see that a specific thread exists, and with that allow the biggest part that is interested in the topic to be a part of it.

We can agree on the fact that most of the members either surf through their Subscribed threads in their User PC, or just look at the First Page of a specific Section.
Since bumping would bring the thread on the First Page, the second part is covered, meaning that there is a very high possibility the thread will be spotted.

However, there must be some restrictions to bumping, since we want bumping to be something positive, not chaotic.

So, here they are:
  • Only the owner/creator of the thread would have the option to bump the thread.
  • He/she would only be able to bump one of his/her threads every 30 minutes.
  • A specific thread would only be able to be bumped 3 times, but that counter would be reset as soon as the thread would receive a post (preferably a post from anyone other than the creator, if that would be possible). By having this set, I think we can agree that a thread would truly be found as "uninteresting" by a big part of the community if no posts would be made after 3 bumps. If that would be the case, the bump option would be disabled, reason being, as said by Relentless and myself, a thread being uninteresting.

If you would like to add something, feel free to.
I do realize you might find this as something dangerous, but I really see only good come from it, since finding a certain thread you want to discuss a specific topic on is what everyone wants.

Last edited by Haiprbim; 2013-08-16 at 05:52.
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Old 2013-08-16, 06:03   Link #25
relentlessflame
 
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Sorry, but I really think that's unnecessary. If a forum is moving so quickly where threads are not getting noticed because they're getting too-quickly shifted down to the second page, then easier solutions are either to a) split the forum into sub-forums so that the topic list doesn't shift so quickly, or b) change the default number of threads per page so that more threads are visible at once.

Otherwise, every thread has an equal chance at "advertising itself" while it's on the front page. If it doesn't catch anyone's interest in that time, then we can conclude that it either wasn't interesting or the fates were against it. But that's basically how it goes.

And besides, why bother spending time making some plugin for this? If you really wanted to allow this, you could just make it a policy and tell people that they're allowed to bump their own thread three times. We don't want them to do this anyway. But, in either case, it seems to me that this is not a problem that needs a complex technical solution, if it was agreed to be a problem at all.
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Old 2013-08-16, 06:18   Link #26
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Sorry, but I really think that's unnecessary. If a forum is moving so quickly where threads are not getting noticed because they're getting too-quickly shifted down to the second page, then easier solutions are either to a) split the forum into sub-forums so that the topic list doesn't shift so quickly, or b) change the default number of threads per page so that more threads are visible at once.
No worries, I do think that this could only be an extra adding if there would be too much time to spend. I think there are already other changes/adding that should take priority, I was just expressing my opinion on the matter here.

a) I'm still keeping an eye on that Forums Reorganization thread.
b) That is actually a really nice idea that would actually cover the part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Otherwise, every thread has an equal chance at "advertising itself" while it's on the front page. If it doesn't catch anyone's interest in that time, then we can conclude that it either wasn't interesting or the fates were against it. But that's basically how it goes.
I'm in agreement that every thread should be treated the same and have the same possibilities for members to visit, as it is now.
As far as it goes for fate, we could call it luck and unluck. If that's how it goes, than okay, it personally doesn't bother me since I search the forums up in almost every corner anyway. I was trying to point out the overall biggest part, but it is also true that members probably don't have that much different tastes, and would probably be interested in the already-most-active threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
And besides, why bother spending time making some plugin for this? If you really wanted to allow this, you could just make it a policy and tell people that they're allowed to bump their own thread three times. We don't want them to do this anyway. But, in either case, it seems to me that this is not a problem that needs a complex technical solution, if it was agreed to be a problem at all.
Heh, well, that depends on the one running the forums (Admins) how they would like most of the things to run - on the automatic or manual way.
If there is enough trust given and rules with let's say strict consequences made if broken, then entrusting the actions to members would be okay.

In any way, we are more on the "No" than "Yes" side here, so I guess I'll just leave it at that for the time being.
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Old 2013-08-16, 06:38   Link #27
milan kyuubi
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Moderators can we have at least lower characters limit on visitors messages? From 10 to be lowered to 5.
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Old 2013-08-16, 10:51   Link #28
Daniel E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
We can agree on the fact that most of the members either surf through their Subscribed threads in their User PC, or just look at the First Page of a specific Section.
Which is exactly the reason as for why this idea is just plain horrible. It is simply imposible to have a balance with it, as you would be punishing those that cannot/do not want to play this little bumping game of yours.

Quote:
we want bumping to be something positive, not chaotic.
The very essence of your suggestion is chaotic.

Quote:
[*]A specific thread would only be able to be bumped 3 times.
This is both irrelevant and pointless.

It takes a single bump to push another thread to the second page, something that you yourself has claimed to be the "dead" of any topic. By the time your "fair limits" kick in, it is already too late for another thread.

Quote:
If you would like to add something, feel free to.
You want to favor a certain group (thread creators that check the forum daily), while punishing everybody else that wants to start a thread. You also want to make threads more visible, but you want to do it at the cost of making others harder to see and follow.

As Relentless said, there are better options to handle this, options that would certainly be considered if needed.

Moving on......

Quote:
Moderators can we have at least lower characters limit on visitors messages? From 10 to be lowered to 5.
I am againts changing the limit........ in case anyone was wondering.
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Old 2013-08-16, 11:15   Link #29
Haiprbim
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You clearly only want to headbutt in here and trash my idea away, with no direct point.
You just keep on saying how the essence itself is chaotic. Please, stop being so aggressive against someone who only wants to help with improvement. I'm not trying to push any kind of ideals onto you, you could also consider this from other angles as well.

Also, here are a few statements I do not quite understand.

"You want to favour a certain group (thread creators that check the forum daily), while punishing everybody else that wants to start a thread." - Why would someone want to start a thread and then leave it behind, and not maintain it? I do not see the point there.

"It takes a single bump to push another thread to the second page, something that you yourself has claimed to be the "dead" of any topic. By the time your "fair limits" kick in, it is already too late for another thread." - Then that thread could be bumped as well, if the creator of it is still active. If it is not, then there should be no worries for a known thread to get back on track and in action, since members could have either memorized it or subscribed to it, so falling behind Page 1 would not be an issue. That is for older threads. The whole bumping system would be for newer threads to get known around.
In the end, the older threads would push the newer thread on the 2nd page anyway, and if the newer thread would indeed be so uninteresting, the bumping option would be disabled for it. That's pretty much that, but I want to give the newer, not so-known threads around a way to start off.

In any way, I already said that the idea is more at a "No" than a "Yes" at the moment, but you still had to input that you greatly dislike the idea for no clear reason whatsoever.
Well, I can't judge anyone, since it is only an idea that wasn't put into action or any kind of test.

Sorry if this post sounded rough, but what I got from you was a meaningless attack on me and the idea, and then saying Moving on... Well, yeah, that's that.

From your post, what I agree with is the Moving on... part, since I seem to be the only one with this kind of an idea, which was already respectfully disapproved by an Administrator.
I hope you are getting the picture of what I meant by saying "a meaningless, aggressive attack" now.
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Old 2013-08-16, 11:36   Link #30
Klashikari
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Qualifying a suggestion to be chaotic isn't any ad hominem/aggressive attack whatsoever. As far as it goes, Daniel disagrees because the very idea of allowing "bump" can be considered as chaotic, to which I fully agree with him.
Clarifications of one's statement isn't synonym to being persistent.

Regarding the reason behind that, it was fairly clear: allowing that kind of bumping system might lead to a "bumping war" assuming some thread makers are persistent to show off their threads and so on. It is quite irrelevant how harmless the intent of a forum feature is, but how abusable it can be, and how many benefits you get from the flaws of this kind of addition. Daniel and Relentless already covered the latter point.
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Old 2013-08-16, 11:38   Link #31
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
You clearly only want to headbutt in here and trash my idea away, with no direct point.
You just keep on saying how the essence itself is chaotic. Please, stop being so aggressive against someone who only wants to help with improvement. I'm not trying to push any kind of ideals onto you, you could also consider this from other angles as well.

Also, here are a few statements I do not quite understand.

"You want to favour a certain group (thread creators that check the forum daily), while punishing everybody else that wants to start a thread." - Why would someone want to start a thread and then leave it behind, and not maintain it? I do not see the point there.

"It takes a single bump to push another thread to the second page, something that you yourself has claimed to be the "dead" of any topic. By the time your "fair limits" kick in, it is already too late for another thread." - Then that thread could be bumped as well, if the creator of it is still active. If it is not, then there should be no worries for a known thread to get back on track and in action, since members could have either memorized it or subscribed to it, so falling behind Page 1 would not be an issue. That is for older threads. The whole bumping system would be for newer threads to get known around.
In the end, the older threads would push the newer thread on the 2nd page anyway, and if the newer thread would indeed be so uninteresting, the bumping option would be disabled for it. That's pretty much that, but I want to give the newer, not so-known threads around a way to start off.

In any way, I already said that the idea is more at a "No" than a "Yes" at the moment, but you still had to input that you greatly dislike the idea for no clear reason whatsoever.
Well, I can't judge anyone, since it is only an idea that wasn't put into action or any kind of test.

Sorry if this post sounded rough, but what I got from you was a meaningless attack on me and the idea, and then saying Moving on... Well, yeah, that's that.

From your post, what I agree with is the Moving on... part, since I seem to be the only one with this kind of an idea, which was already respectfully disapproved by an Administrator.
I hope you are getting the picture of what I meant by saying "a meaningless, aggressive attack" now.
Your suggestion is an almost same repeat of the last time
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=119203
And back then most people didn't exactly favor that idea.

Also some of the points that you try to defend now , were already discussed. You are assuming and expecting too much of the people here if you really think that every threadstarter is going to maintain this thread, but whatever.
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Old 2013-08-16, 11:51   Link #32
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
It is quite irrelevant how harmless the intent of a forum feature is, but how abusable it can be, and how many benefits you get from the flaws of this kind of addition. Daniel and Relentless already covered the latter point.
Trust me, I've covered the latter point as well, if you have read through my posts.

It is clearly visible that you are showing fear of the damage a specific update/change might bring, which is nothing else but good, but you don't have to present yourself like that... (not meaning you in person).
The main issue here seem to be the restrictions. Whether you trust me or not, with good enough restrictions, a bumping system can be made positive and not chaotic. But in the end, it wouldn't matter, since, yet again, the whole idea of it is way more on the "No" than the "Yes" side at AnimeSuki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Your suggestion is an almost same repeat of the last time
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=119203
And back then most people didn't exactly favor that idea.
Hence why I have said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
I explained everything how this could not be abused in specific, but the idea was then dropped since the rule against bumping stays.
Again, but now really for the last time, I said I understand.

It is unnecessary to "team-up" in order to achieve something, but still, you can't assure me that I'm wrong in any way if things aren't put to test, the same way as I cannot assure you guys and gals that you are wrong.
I'm just speaking from experience from elsewhere and how I see specific things go. I personally see the argument of a "Bumping War" quite invalid if the restriction of bumping a thread every 30 minutes, and being able to do so only 3 times would be put into action.

In any way, I can see very well, and I can see all the disagreement.
I've just said that from my point of view, the post was aggressive towards me, which too, I am sorry now to have ever said.

Keep on with the thread's main discussion, I'll create a thread myself if I'll want to suggest something, but overall looking at how suggestions, especially for something new or changes are taken over here, don't expect one soon/ever.


PS: Man, I just keep falling out as the main antagonist of the Forums & Site Feedback section.

Last edited by Haiprbim; 2013-08-16 at 12:02.
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Old 2013-08-16, 13:07   Link #33
Dhomochevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
PS: Man, I just keep falling out as the main antagonist of the Forums & Site Feedback section.
This forum is serious business!

That's why I only post here while drunk.

How did this end up being about bumping ones own threads?
I have like two threads...one, because I think this one got taken over.
And the other one I bump with youtube vids links, which are longer than 10 characters.

This thread is about the lack of appreciation for the short message.
The short message, which still delivers, is a piece of art.
It says all it needs and there is nothing you could trim to make it better.
It's perfect.
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Old 2013-08-16, 13:25   Link #34
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
This forum is serious business!

That's why I only post here while drunk.
Haha, seriousness kills, that's where alcohol helps, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
How did this end up being about bumping ones own threads?
Yeah, I'm sorry about that, that was my fault.

But to keep the "Thread Hijacking" aside, I find the 50,000 max character limit reasonable, as well as the 10 min one, although it was not explained why well enough by others.

The issue is not in the intended spam, since someone can just do something like: @@@@@@@@@@@@@ and the post already includes more than 10 characters but is still spam.
The answer is the preventing of the possible unintentional spam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
This thread is about the lack of appreciation for the short message.
The short message, which still delivers, is a piece of art.
It says all it needs and there is nothing you could trim to make it better.
It's perfect.
Maybe a solution you are looking for is something like enabling the posting of messages with less than 10 characters, just preventing the post to count as +1 to the Overall Post Count?
And yeah, although I like to write a lot in this section since it is filled with a lot of "quality discussion users", I prefer short and sweet responses myself as well.
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Old 2013-08-16, 20:14   Link #35
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
Moderators can we have at least lower characters limit on visitors messages? From 10 to be lowered to 5.
Five characters is still longer than it takes to write "yes" or "no," which is what most people seem to want to reply with. I've been hit with the "must be 10 characters or longer" message before, which just forces me to write something like "yes, that is correct." I've been hit with the 50,000 character limit much more often, though (usually over PM's), because that character limit includes quoted text. I'd love to ask for that limit to be upped, but there are perfectly justified reasons for leaving it as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
You just keep on saying how the essence itself is chaotic.
Whether it is chaotic or not depends on how you view the forum operation and organization. I agree with the notion that bumping is chaotic and unproductive. I'll explain why.

As has been mentioned previously (and as I think we all know), each forum page can only hold a certain number of threads. Those with the oldest activity are shifted to page 2 or later as threads with newer activity take up space on the first page. This is a self-sorting system reflecting the interests of the community. Topics that don't generate much interest are cast off in favor of topics that generate more interest. If you compare this with the way that group conversations occur offline, the process is fairly similar.

One aspect of "chaos" with bumping occurs because it overrides that natural, organic flow of conversation. While it is possible that a fantastic thread topic was overlooked before passing on to page 2, in my opinion that is exceedingly rare. Thus, a bumped thread rises back to the top with no justification from the rest of the community, knocking off another topic from the first page.

But now we have a problem, because everyone can bump their own threads. Here's where it becomes truly chaotic. What happens if everyone bumps their threads as soon as they hit page 2? The forum would no longer be sorted based on discussion activity, but on the whim of the thread creator who thinks that their topic is fantastic and is unwilling to accept that the community doesn't agree. In a worst-case scenario that first page of the forum would be a quickly swirling mass of topics that shifted not based on merit, but on the activity of the very people who created the topics. That has the potential to become disruptive to discussion.

To use an analogy, have you ever been in a group where one person kept wanting to bring up a topic that nobody else cared to discuss? It's awkward. Parallels between discussion forums and offline discussions can only go so far, but I think this describes the feeling over bumping quite well.

It isn't the case that page 2 is a wasteland, either. I primarily navigate the forum by the User Control Panel and subscribed threads; when I feel that I'm not saturated by conversation or bored with my current threads, I will seek out new ones, including going back a few pages in the forums of interest. I can't say whether my behaviors are standard, but we have thousands of users accessing this forum per day. I doubt I'm the only one doing this. And if I reply, bringing a thread back, and nobody else chimes in, then oh well; this is a global forum with a huge diversity of users, but it stands to reason that there will be topics that people don't care to discuss at a particular time.
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Old 2013-08-16, 23:00   Link #36
Solace
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If there are threads you feel you might miss due to lack of activity, just want to keep up with out of interest/curiosity, or are afraid you'll miss because of the rapid movement of a busy forum, there's always the thread subscription feature.

On the other hand, if you're bumping threads to keep them visible for others, that's something we frown upon. It's another reason we allow (reasonable) thread necros, actually. We don't want or need people creating new threads just for attention, nor do we want people bumping old threads for the same or similar reasons. Thread promoting has a place, in signatures or relevant discussion. But it's a privilege, not a right, and such awesome power comes with awesome responsibility.

In regards to the character limits, they exist to discourage spamming and pointless posts like "This" or "I agree". Yes, it's a little bit different in Visitor Messaging, but VM's aren't Twitter. As part of the forums it's only reasonable that your replies are at least substantive enough that you can form a reply using ten characters.

On a side note, it's interesting how the internet, and communication in general, seems to be pushing more and more into short bursts and away from longer forms of communication. It's like "too long, didn't read" turned into a highly contagious virus. It's probably possible for a message board to carry on a conversation using nothing but images and gifs at this point....it makes me wonder what the guy who coined the phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words" would think. I'm sure he didn't envision cat pictures and Fresh Prince gifs.
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Old 2013-08-17, 18:39   Link #37
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
On a side note, it's interesting how the internet, and communication in general, seems to be pushing more and more into short bursts and away from longer forms of communication. It's like "too long, didn't read" turned into a highly contagious virus.
This applies especially to my co-workers. All my years on forums like this one has made me quite used to long, in-depth messages... which are often only skimmed over and replied to with one word responses.

Short bits of information have their place, but I tend to be in the camp that likes some degree of detail on my forum posts. Now, that doesn't mean a post needs to be especially long... and sometimes a nice short post makes the most sense, but 10 characters seems like a reasonable minimum to me.
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Old 2013-08-18, 22:52   Link #38
Vexx
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I'm more often running into the 50k character limit posting story chapters. I've found that stripping out all the metacharacters and then re-entering just the really important ones helps (cutting and pasting sometimes introduces a TON of redundant font tags and the like). I've also started running shorter chapters, so it goes.
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Old 2013-08-20, 02:21   Link #39
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I don't disagree that Haiprbim's way of bumping threads works in theory.

However, in reality it won't work, due to the nature of forum posting.

While there are occasions where a thread bump would result in a thread being noticed, as Ledgem said, that occasion will be extremely rare. Instead, you would have people who think that their thread is superior to everyone else's thread or that their question is more important than everyone else's question, turning the whole forum into a loop of threads with little value except for self gratification.

Besides, most of this forum isn't active enough for a new thread to instantly end up on page 2. Only forum I can think of where this might be even applicable is General Chat, and I say might because it isn't even that active most of the time.

Honestly, 10 characters is not that big of a demand, and this is coming from someone who regularly posts in short blurts and admitted is very annoying from time to time. I understand why some may be unhappy with it for visitor messages, but even then it's not a huge problem for me. The visitor message system can be used for chatting, but I don't mind not having to see walls of "wassup" and "bro" on everyone's visitor message walls. I usually reserve blurts and non-major conversations to IRC, and there's my IM info if you (god forbid) ever need to talk to me. One of the main reasons why I like Animesuki is that it attracts a much more mature audience than the vast majority of anime forums I have seen, especially since on AS, you can actually expect real, detailed, intelligent discussions instead of a thread of memes and image macros and/or posts like "this anime sux cuz nohin iz happenin" by a bunch of 14-year olds. I want to keep it that way, and I'm sure the rest of us do too.
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Old 2013-08-20, 19:06   Link #40
TheFluff
Excessively jovial fellow
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Polonius
This business is well ended.
My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day and time.
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief: your noble son is mad:
Mad call I it; for, to define true madness,
What is't but to be nothing else but mad?
But let that go.
(Hamlet, act 2, scene 2)


in other words: this discussion really isn't worth all these words, but if I were to take a side I'd rather be on the side of brevity
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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