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View Poll Results: Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA☆ILLYA - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 1 6.25%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 6 37.50%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 6 37.50%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 18.75%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-09-08, 11:53   Link #41
Random Wanderer
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Why would I want anyone to spoil me? I'm just voicing my discontent at her randomly without any explanation being able to do something just by seeing someone else do it once for no reason other than being a damn Sue.
There is a very good reason why she can do it. Your insistence that there isn't one is why I'm saying you are begging for someone to spoil you.

Also, get over your obsession with calling her a Mary Sue. The series is making it quite clear that, despite all the things she's good at, she stil isn't winning. She lost this fight, and would have died without Illya's help. She fails at a number of things, and there are some things she just cannot do. Sometimes her idea of how to solve a problem is the wrong choice, and it would just make things worse. In short, she's just a girl. A person, imperfect like everyone else.

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Illya was breaking down before she used the Install maneuver, but it struck me as just a typical emotional breakdown. It didn't strike me as something that would actually cause memory loss.
Typical emotional breakdowns include magical locks suddenly opening and storms of mana pouring out of people's bodies, do they? The presnce of the card was coincidental. That still would have happened even if Illya hadn't had the Archer card. She wouldn't have been able to turn into Archer, but the lock would still have opened, and Illya's powers would still have been unleashed.
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Old 2013-09-08, 12:06   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
There is a very good reason why she can do it. Your insistence that there isn't one is why I'm saying you are begging for someone to spoil you.
If there really is a good reason for it like you say then it's an example of piss poor storytelling, given that there is 1) No foreshadowing and 2) No implication whatsoever that what there's an underlying reason for it.

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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Also, get over your obsession with calling her a Mary Sue. The series is making it quite clear that, despite all the things she's good at, she stil isn't winning. She lost this fight, and would have died without Illya's help. She fails at a number of things, and there are some things she just cannot do. Sometimes her idea of how to solve a problem is the wrong choice, and it would just make things worse. In short, she's just a girl. A person, imperfect like everyone else.
I'm sorry but I disagree. I haven't seen her lose at anything. For christs sake, she can still fly despite not being able to fly. Does everything at school perfectly, was responsible for getting about half the cards with hardly any contribution from others, and the only reason she's losing to Berserker is because of Twelve Works. You might not like me calling her a sue but I'm just calling it what it is.
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Old 2013-09-08, 12:40   Link #43
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was responsible for getting about half the cards with hardly any contribution from others
She got Rider. That's all. Lancer and Archer were already obtained, Caster was a joint effort by her and Illya, and Saber and Assassin were all Illya. One out of six is about half now?

And there are hints for her, just not screaming them out as it's more of a 2wei plot point that just had some incredibly minor hints laid in this season.
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Old 2013-09-08, 12:48   Link #44
Random Wanderer
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If there really is a good reason for it like you say then it's an example of piss poor storytelling, given that there is 1) No foreshadowing and 2) No implication whatsoever that what there's an underlying reason for it.
Then you can tell us where she came from? Why she was homeless and alone when Sapphire and Luvia found her? Why she is, in fact, good at many things she tries? Why she is bad at dealing with people? Why she is completely incapable of imagining herself flying, even after seeing someone else do it? All this, and more, are hints about her. Foreshadowing, if you're willing to look close enough to notice it, rather than close your mind and dismiss her out of hand.

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was responsible for getting about half the cards with hardly any contribution from others,
She got one card on her own. One. Caster would have killed her without Illya's help. In fact, Illya faired far better against Caster than Miyu did, all things considered. The only reason Miyu was the one who struck the killing blow was because she was the one who had Gae Bolg. Saber was clearly Illya's win, and so was Assassin. I'm sorry, but your count is off. She had one independent victory, one victory that would have been a complete loss and death without Illya, and two where Illya won entirely without her help. Illya is way ahead in this contest.
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Old 2013-09-08, 15:16   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Then you can tell us where she came from? Why she was homeless and alone when Sapphire and Luvia found her? Why she is, in fact, good at many things she tries? Why she is bad at dealing with people? Why she is completely incapable of imagining herself flying, even after seeing someone else do it? All this, and more, are hints about her. Foreshadowing, if you're willing to look close enough to notice it, rather than close your mind and dismiss her out of hand.
Having poor social skills is an indication of having poor social skills, not of secretly being a robot or whatever it is her secret might be. Likewise, being good at everything is an indication of being good at everything.

I'm sorry if my not liking this offends you, but I can't bring myself to like this development. I tried my best not to be bothered by her perfect-ness, but now she can Install on top of all that, I'm sorry but that was the last straw.


As for the fight against Caster. So yeah, she got Catapulted by Illya to gain some extra speed. REAL big conribution there. What? So the game would've been lost without Illya? Well, an office building would be a complete mess without a janitor, but no one's paying him any extra credit.
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Old 2013-09-08, 15:51   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Having poor social skills is an indication of having poor social skills, not of secretly being a robot or whatever it is her secret might be. Likewise, being good at everything is an indication of being good at everything.

I'm sorry if my not liking this offends you, but I can't bring myself to like this development. I tried my best not to be bothered by her perfect-ness, but now she can Install on top of all that, I'm sorry but that was the last straw.


As for the fight against Caster. So yeah, she got Catapulted by Illya to gain some extra speed. REAL big conribution there. What? So the game would've been lost without Illya? Well, an office building would be a complete mess without a janitor, but no one's paying him any extra credit.
As to the Caster thing...seriously? If Illya doesn't save Miyu the first time after she got teleport attacked by Caster and she's shot to death by magical beams. If she doesn't give her that boost Miyu then everyone else dies. That's a somewhat important contribution. Can talk about Miyu's perfection, but she made a tactical blunder by charging Caster when she didn't have the speed to actually reach her.

That was undeniably a team effort.
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Old 2013-09-08, 15:57   Link #47
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As for the fight against Caster. So yeah, she got Catapulted by Illya to gain some extra speed. REAL big conribution there. What? So the game would've been lost without Illya? Well, an office building would be a complete mess without a janitor, but no one's paying him any extra credit.
Go back and watch that fight again. You know, the part where Miyu got shot down, and was a split second away from being killed when Illya yanked her out of the blast radius. Or the part where she only got any shot at Caster at all because Illya immobilized said Servant for her.

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Having poor social skills is an indication of having poor social skills, not of secretly being a robot or whatever it is her secret might be. Likewise, being good at everything is an indication of being good at everything.
Do you think I would have brought those points up if they only meant what you think they mean? Let me put this plainly: everything that you think you understand about Miyu is wrong. Every element of her character that you think you know the meaning of, you don't. Absolutely nothing you are saying about her is correct.
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Old 2013-09-08, 16:46   Link #48
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I don't get how you can think Miyu is a Mary Sue at this stage. She was introduced as one as a joke, her shortcomings were made clear soon after that. This very episode provided yet another proof she can't do everything on her own. The only time she hasn't needed Illya's help is against Rider.
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Old 2013-09-08, 17:09   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
Typical emotional breakdowns include magical locks suddenly opening and storms of mana pouring out of people's bodies, do they?
You do realize that anime uses symbolic imagery all the time, right? Locks opening can be a visual meant to signify a mind breaking. As for the mana pouring out, it's not long after we see similar streams of mana converge on Illya as she uses the Install maneuver. Was the previous mana summoned to install the Archer card?

In any event, I certainly didn't get the impression that the presence of the card was coincidental.

But I thank you for the info.
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Old 2013-09-08, 22:31   Link #50
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Irisviel, kudos to you for being a true mother to your child, and encouraging Illya to go and seek what's truly important to her.

But, I do understand Illya due to being just as impressionable as her, and it was rough for her learning those words from Miyu herself. Nonetheless, Miyu said them to protect Illya, because deeply she truly regards Illya as a friend as well; she, at last, openly said that she treasures Illya as her best friend and her first one.

BTW, Saber Miyu rocked against Black Berseker, but the one truly crushing the Heaven's Feel was Archer Illya.
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Old 2013-09-09, 00:17   Link #51
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I didn't think Excalibur could hurt Berserker without resorting to it's Nobel Phantasm. Melee strikes are effective?
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Old 2013-09-09, 01:09   Link #52
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Illya had that blank eye before installing back in ep6, just fyi. The lock is the key here

And you simply don't ask why foreshadowing themselves don't have foreshadowing to them
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Old 2013-09-09, 01:49   Link #53
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I don't get how you can think Miyu is a Mary Sue at this stage. She was introduced as one as a joke, her shortcomings were made clear soon after that. This very episode provided yet another proof she can't do everything on her own. The only time she hasn't needed Illya's help is against Rider.
Shortcomings? What shortcomings? And don't say something silly like "no social skills". Lack of social skills has never lost a battle or gotten someone killed. The fact that she can't fly doesn't count either cos she clearly found a workable workaround.

Last edited by Dengar; 2013-09-09 at 02:34.
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Old 2013-09-09, 02:35   Link #54
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Dengar just stop.... you're only going to embarrass yourself further at this point.
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Old 2013-09-09, 02:36   Link #55
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Shortcomings? What shortcomings? And don't say something silly like "no social skills". Lack of social skills has never lost a battle. The fact that she can't fly doesn't count either cos she clearly found a workable workaround.
Practically speaking there isn't much difference between Miyu and Illya. Practically speaking. The differences are telling though. Illya is able to perform as a magical girl because she buys into and believes the hype. The power of love! and all that. She's a fan of the genre so it comes naturally to her (though that's only part of it).

Miyu is able to perform because it's all mathematical to her. She understands how magic works and how to fight. Why she understands these things, why she seems knowledgeable and experienced with things that aren't commonly known, that's the mystery to her.

Illya has led a normal, happy life. The battles they've had have come as a shock to her as you might expect. Miyu isn't shocked though. Why is that? Might it be that her life hasn't been a happy one? Illya is her first friend for crying out loud.
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Old 2013-09-09, 02:37   Link #56
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Are those shortcomings?
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Old 2013-09-09, 02:56   Link #57
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Are those shortcomings?
Do Rin and Lluvia have shortcomings? Are they Mary Sues because they know how magic works, are genius level mages that can fight even though they have limited battle experience? They showed that they're more capable than both Illya and Miyu when using Sapphire and Ruby and they only had them in their possession for a couple weeks at the most.

I don't think you quite understand what a Mary Sue is. Just being capable doesn't make you a Sue. Lots of characters in stories are capable. Being right all the time doesn't make a Sue either. What makes a Sue a Sue is that they 'break' the setting. Other characters, the plot, the whole world ends up revolving around them to the point where things that once were became completely different to serve the Sue. The Sue is also often able to ignore or completely avoid criticism and consequence. Not because something happens to safe guard them, but simply because criticism and consequence never come their way.

They also gain disproportionate amount of importance in regards to what's going on in the story. Even if a Sue has rivals or allies that are as capable or more so than the Sue, they are trivialized or outright ignored because it's the Sue's story.

So in what way is Miyu breaking the setting?
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Old 2013-09-09, 10:10   Link #58
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You raise a good point. I did make the common mistake of misinterpreting the definition of Sue. Doesn't really change the fact that her complete perfectness and inability to fail at anything are starting to really annoy me and breaking my immersion.

By the way, I never said anything about Luvia. She appears to be the same level as Rin.
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Old 2013-09-09, 10:19   Link #59
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Shortcomings? What shortcomings? And don't say something silly like "no social skills". Lack of social skills has never lost a battle or gotten someone killed. The fact that she can't fly doesn't count either cos she clearly found a workable workaround.
Lack of social skills is a shortcoming whether you like it or not. As is lack of imagination. A truly perfect person wouldn't be like that. And you're still talking as if she has never lost a battle and has succeeded in everything she undertook, but we've already told you that's wrong. Illya had to save her plenty of times, either because she was outclassed (Saber), made a mistake in judgment (Caster), or tried to do everything on her own only to fail (Berserker). She would have been killed if not for Illya. How is she completely perfect and unable to fail?
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Old 2013-09-09, 10:54   Link #60
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Lack of social skills is a shortcoming whether you like it or not. As is lack of imagination. A truly perfect person wouldn't be like that. And you're still talking as if she has never lost a battle and has succeeded in everything she undertook, but we've already told you that's wrong. Illya had to save her plenty of times, either because she was outclassed (Saber), made a mistake in judgment (Caster), or tried to do everything on her own only to fail (Berserker). She would have been killed if not for Illya. How is she completely perfect and unable to fail?
Being outclassed by someone who outclasses everyone isn't really a major shortcoming. I'm not sure what mistake you mean with Caster but I'll take your word for it that she did, and she never actually failed against Berserker. In fact she succeeded. Twice.

But yeah the fact that she kicks every type of ass in battle, school and life in general is okay, because she can't talk to people. Because that really is a skill that someone needs to live.


I'm getting a little tired of having to repeat myself though. You apparently value these insignificant things a lot more, and I respect that. And I already retracted my "Mary Sue" bit, but I'm still not liking Little Miss Perfect for reasons I've already stated, and I think I should be allowed to think that way.


It's not like I'm forcing anyone to join me in disliking her?

Last edited by Dengar; 2013-09-09 at 11:08.
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