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Old 2013-09-08, 11:51   Link #161
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0 View Post
If there were any guesses, not actual dates, I painted the graph favoring your theory.

Shanks lost his arm when Luffy was 7. The month I took, in favor of your theory, was May, because this is the earliest time Luffy could have been seven.
Shortly after that (could also be a longer gap, but again in favor of your theory) he was taken to Dadan and started following Ace.
The following months are stated in the manga. It took Luffy at least 6 months to trail Ace and subsequently find Sabo.
The whole "three brothers hanging out together"-time, Sabo getting kidnapped and the Gray Terminal Incident along Sabo's death only got accounted with 4 months in the graph, which I think is rather short.



The next thing is a guess again. Luffy headed out on his birthday in May and I gave him six months to reach Moria. Could be longer or shorter - it was just a guess.


I really like your theory. Especially your idea of Kaido/Sabo not wanting to attack Whitebeard, rather than helping him, in order to save Ace, which Shanks and the Marines misunderstood, shows that you know about story-telling.
But I have to say, that the numbers simply don't match.
Again, you are working with assumptions the same way as i am. What you were ( until i questioned the dates) doing is trying to pose as facts what you assumed against my arguments( as you have implied here, you are guessing). Also the only thing we know is that the time he was trailing ace was 3 months. No need to assume it was 6 when we are given that in manga ( chapter 583).

Your dates are assumptions. Based on your assumption and guesstimate of dates my theory doesn't hold.

As i have repeated myself, this is just a theory based on signs/hints. Many other possibilities are open.

All i am trying to argue is that Oda sensei have given himself enough leeway to go this path if he choose to. He has not given any facts that contradict this. There is no contradiction nor issues time related wise.

So thus far i am not convinced. Many claiming that what i say is flawed because the time doesn't match. But that is not the case. There is nothing in manga that invalidate my theory at least due to time and history of events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Whitemoon648, what would you say the likelihood of Sabo being Kaido is?
You can't put a number on this. All i can say this is one possible path the story can take.

There are some subtle hints imo,

-Kaido trying to gather a huge army to change Akainu's way of government ( Aokiji-smoker chatter). Aokiji talked about how big of a threat Doflamingo's dealing with Kaido could be. These could be linked. This is more of an assumption/guessing than hint.

- Why didn't Sabo go help ace? Well what if he actually did as Kaido. Or maybe Sabo is just a high ranking pirate in Kaido's crew.

- Also i see a link between an injured Sabo (when/if rescued by dragon), and the high chance Sabo's DF has some sort of heal ability ( Gorosei hinting Marco and Kaido could defeat blackbeard)

There are more but let's leave it at that.


Also Sabo after being rescued by dragon and revolutionaries, could have been trained by the revolutionaries. Ace and luffy were had relatively much funner life back at their village while Sabo was training hard/mastering Haki, ... .
And also you know how in one piece, the celestial dragons and WG can be evil right? Those experiences might have changed his vision drastically and changed the person he once was. This isn't uncommon in anime/manga world.

P.S. No one has to agree with me on this theory. The reasoning i have been replaying back, generally was because people were calling this theory factually flawed. I mean i would probably not cared or argued back if people argued about how unoriginal it would be, but since people challenged it's facts, i had an obligation to reply.

Last edited by Whitemoon648; 2013-09-08 at 12:09.
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Old 2013-09-08, 14:29   Link #162
ri0
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You're right about those six months... As I said I painted the graphic from what I remembered and I could have sworn, it took Luffy six months.

Still, I highly doubt your theory because there is simply way too less time.

Even if Luffy got taken to Sabo one or two days after his birthday - it's up to you to decide the likelihood of this - that would only leave nine months for all the following to happen:
- Sabo, Luffy and Ace befriend and become brothers
- Sabo gets kidnapped
- Gray Terminal Incident with Sabo dying
- Sabo healing from his wounds (allrigt, with Iva's help)
- Sabo, a 10 year old (!!), getting a motive for and being able to defeat a Shichibukai level opponent and his crew.

Actually nine months only if we assume, that it took Luffy a whole year to reach Moria. It's far more likely that this happened faster and that he got taken to Dadan some time after his birthday, which would further shrink the time for all that to happen.


But I won't argue with you about that. The time-table would have been a set argument based on the manga, but I remembered the chapter you mentioned falsly. I still doubt your theory but at least it "could" be possible

Last edited by ri0; 2013-09-09 at 02:56.
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Old 2013-09-08, 15:29   Link #163
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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@Whitemoon648 - Again, I ask you what you think the likelihood of Sabo being Kaido is. You can put a number to it, and that number will determine the level of merit of your theory. The only thing that is keeping your theory from being completely destroyed is that we don't know Kaido's age. And it's just a matter of time until we're introduced to Kaido and Oda gives us his age in a databook (or perhaps even in the story itself). If he's older than 22, which looks to be very likely, then say goodbye to your theory.
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Old 2013-09-08, 17:32   Link #164
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Chapter 720
Not a bad chapter. Kinda hope Cavendish gets the Mera Mera No Mi. But I see Cavendish winning D Block but Luffy winning the fruit and giving it to Rebecca. If we have to get a new member in this arch I hope its Cavendish(Very Unlikely). Kinda curious about Rebecca's past but her little stunt with Luffy was sad. Hopefully she does not receive the fruit. Luffy saving the fruit for later archs would be better idea or give it to Zoro.
Zoro shouldn't get the fruit. He's trying to become the best swordsman. For him to rely on anything but his own strength would defeat the principle of his goal.

It would be interesting if Cavendish ate it though. It has the potential for a lot of gags...

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Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
I do wonder though when I get to see my star wars themed arc....
Gintama had a fantastic Star Wars x Gundam parody arc a while back...

p.s. Please tell me if I'm not allowed to talk about other series, and I'll edit the Gintama bit out.
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Old 2013-09-08, 21:09   Link #165
Poetic Justice
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Best chapter in ages - Scope is finally getting larger. Luffy has fanboys.

Also Sabo being Kaido, Don't see it. We already saw Kaidou has a huge frame and we've also seen what an older Sabo looks like in the what-if picture.
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Last edited by Poetic Justice; 2013-09-08 at 21:19.
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Old 2013-09-09, 03:04   Link #166
ri0
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Originally Posted by Rainbowman View Post
So the strongest likely candidates are Bartolomeo and Chinjao's grandchildren Sai and Boo. I hope Luffy will be recruiting them.
Do you mean highly likely candidates to join the crew?

For Sai and Boo I think this chapter made it quite clear that they won't become Mugiwaras. Why should Luffy ask them to join? They don't have any specific skill/trait and Chinjao puts them under Luffy's wing anyways. They'll be allies in the NW, but I doubt they'll join the crew.

As for Bartolomeo, I think it's the same. But love could also turn into hate as, I think, Whitemoon already mentioned.
Though Bartolomeo would at least fit better into the crew, because his personality isn't comparable to one of the others and he's kind of unique, I don't see any of those three becoming a new member.
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Old 2013-09-09, 10:46   Link #167
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Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
Best chapter in ages - Scope is finally getting larger. Luffy has fanboys.
I don't know if it is the "best chapter in ages" (I enjoyed the more chaotic portions of the arena fights), but there were quite a few interesting tidbits that helped to expand the world in meaningful ways.

That being said, I was not a fan of Barty's behaviour. I enjoyed the idea of the humour of the situation, but the execution came across as too forced for me (mostly due to the exaggerated nature of Barty's character design).
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Old 2013-09-09, 11:17   Link #168
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0 View Post
You're right about those six months... As I said I painted the graphic from what I remembered and I could have sworn, it took Luffy six months.

Still, I highly doubt your theory because there is simply way too less time.

Even if Luffy got taken to Sabo one or two days after his birthday - it's up to you to decide the likelihood of this - that would only leave nine months for all the following to happen:
- Sabo, Luffy and Ace befriend and become brothers
- Sabo gets kidnapped
- Gray Terminal Incident with Sabo dying
- Sabo healing from his wounds (allrigt, with Iva's help)
- Sabo, a 10 year old (!!), getting a motive for and being able to defeat a Shichibukai level opponent and his crew.

Actually nine months only if we assume, that it took Luffy a whole year to reach Moria. It's far more likely that this happened faster and that he got taken to Dadan some time after his birthday, which would further shrink the time for all that to happen.


But I won't argue with you about that. The time-table would have been a set argument based on the manga, but I remembered the chapter you mentioned falsly. I still doubt your theory but at least it "could" be possible
Imo the authors generally have the freedom with the age and time. 7 years could also mean 6 years and 11 months, ... . I won't delve on this point too much though.

But i do question this, would you chew an author if 10 years wasn't exact and it was 10 years and 2 months? Would you say "WOW he is a troll author" because of that?

Also Sabo couldn't have been healed by Iva. Iva couldn't accompany/guard Dragon because of his big head. This was stated in both anime and manga when Iva was angry at Dragon for going alone ( at the same time he came back with the wounded person). So we can safely assume Iva at that time didn't possess his devil fruit powers. I really pay close attention to details when i come up with my theories . This theory is not something i came up with yesterday. I have been working on this for months.

As Sabo's motivation, simply we don't know. We can guess but those won't be reliable. Not enough information.

And yes indeed "could be possible". I don't think i have claimed that it must be this or that . I have repeated this many times for every one that this is a possible path Oda could take based on hints/signs.

P.S. what you mean the chapter i mentioned falsely ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
@Whitemoon648 - Again, I ask you what you think the likelihood of Sabo being Kaido is. You can put a number to it, and that number will determine the level of merit of your theory. The only thing that is keeping your theory from being completely destroyed is that we don't know Kaido's age. And it's just a matter of time until we're introduced to Kaido and Oda gives us his age in a databook (or perhaps even in the story itself). If he's older than 22, which looks to be very likely, then say goodbye to your theory.
Well this is one of my theories regarding who sabo is. If it isn't right at the end i am fine with it. All i am just saying is that my theory isn't based on flawed information. Every thing i have said to support my theory is either explicitly or implicitly implied in manga.

As for number, you can put a number on flipping a coin ( 50/50) or when you know for a fact X can be only 4 possibility ( 25 percent each). Putting a number on something like this would at best be arbitrarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0 View Post
Do you mean highly likely candidates to join the crew?

For Sai and Boo I think this chapter made it quite clear that they won't become Mugiwaras. Why should Luffy ask them to join? They don't have any specific skill/trait and Chinjao puts them under Luffy's wing anyways. They'll be allies in the NW, but I doubt they'll join the crew.

As for Bartolomeo, I think it's the same. But love could also turn into hate as, I think, Whitemoon already mentioned.
Though Bartolomeo would at least fit better into the crew, because his personality isn't comparable to one of the others and he's kind of unique, I don't see any of those three becoming a new member.
I personally think, this arc will end by Mugiwara's having gained many allies to go against a yonkou.

This will be more of a recruiting/gaining more power arc. Same as Ri0 I don't think Sai or Boo will become Mugiwaras but they could be allies against Kaido ( Like how Whitebeard had allies ).

I honestly think Bartolomeo will get mad at luffy because of something he might say. Maybe realizing that he wasn't destroyed by lighting because of his powers or something silly like this . I however do see him as an eventual ally or mugiwara but not before they have their drama .

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I don't know if it is the "best chapter in ages" (I enjoyed the more chaotic portions of the arena fights), but there were quite a few interesting tidbits that helped to expand the world in meaningful ways.

That being said, I was not a fan of Barty's behaviour. I enjoyed the idea of the humour of the situation, but the execution came across as too forced for me (mostly due to the exaggerated nature of Barty's character design).
I personally like the word unstable better . It was a good chapter, but imo not the best in ages either.

Last edited by Whitemoon648; 2013-09-09 at 16:22.
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Old 2013-09-09, 18:58   Link #169
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Quote:
And yes indeed "could be possible". I don't think i have claimed that it must be this or that . I have repeated this many times for every one that this is a possible path Oda could take based on hints/signs.
I guess it could also be possible that Luffy does not succeed in his goal to be pirate king by the end of the manga. Nothing in the manga explicitly contradicts my theory.

Quote:
explicitly or implicitly implied in manga.
What does this even mean...
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Old 2013-09-09, 21:06   Link #170
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Please cease with all conversations concerning what Oda can and cannot do. This is a avenue of discussion that can bear no fruit.
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Old 2013-09-09, 21:39   Link #171
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I hope next chapter's about Nami's situation. They should be able to pull their own weight. Even if Zoro shows up, he shouldn't help Nami's group. They should have been alert and more on their guard since they're close to enemy territory, instead of just kicking back like there's no danger.
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Old 2013-09-10, 01:54   Link #172
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That being said, I was not a fan of Barty's behaviour. I enjoyed the idea of the humour of the situation, but the execution came across as too forced for me (mostly due to the exaggerated nature of Barty's character design).

Really, I think that's what makes the whole thing even funnier! The idea that some loathsome-looking punk like him gets as giddy as a schoolgirl upon laying eyes on Luffy..... IMO, it's comedy gold!



Anyhoo, now that all of the silly arguing about Sabo being Kaidou has ceased (for now? ), we can also focus on the new thread!
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Old 2013-09-10, 05:19   Link #173
ri0
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Imo the authors generally have the freedom with the age and time. 7 years could also mean 6 years and 11 months, ... . I won't delve on this point too much though.

But i do question this, would you chew an author if 10 years wasn't exact and it was 10 years and 2 months? Would you say "WOW he is a troll author" because of that?

Also Sabo couldn't have been healed by Iva. Iva couldn't accompany/guard Dragon because of his big head. This was stated in both anime and manga when Iva was angry at Dragon for going alone ( at the same time he came back with the wounded person). So we can safely assume Iva at that time didn't possess his devil fruit powers. I really pay close attention to details when i come up with my theories . This theory is not something i came up with yesterday. I have been working on this for months.

And yes indeed "could be possible". I don't think i have claimed that it must be this or that . I have repeated this many times for every one that this is a possible path Oda could take based on hints/signs.

P.S. what you mean the chapter i mentioned falsely ?
No, of course I wouldn't because of 10 years and 2 or 4 months. But as I said before, I think the time frame is simply too short for a 10 year old, who recently beat up bears, to reach a level where he could slaughter a Shichibukai level opponent and his entire crew.

I started this discussion only cause I thought Luffy's hunt after Ace was nearly 7 months. Then the manga would make it quite clear. In my eyes, the room for your theory is still too short, but I understand why you defend it so much. And as I said earlier, I really like it

The "falsly" was reffering to my memory. I remembered the chapter, which you mentioned, falsly (six instead of three months) and that's why I started this argument in the first place.

Not really important for the discussion, but I wasn't able to follow you on that "Ivankov couldn't heal Sabo"-matter.
I also don't remember that Iva's head prevented him from guarding Dragon. On the other hand, I thought Iva accompanied Dragon when he found Sabo. Gonna read that again.

Last edited by ri0; 2013-09-10 at 06:28.
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Old 2013-09-10, 23:46   Link #174
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by ri0 View Post
No, of course I wouldn't because of 10 years and 2 or 4 months. But as I said before, I think the time frame is simply too short for a 10 year old, who recently beat up bears, to reach a level where he could slaughter a Shichibukai level opponent and his entire crew.

I started this discussion only cause I thought Luffy's hunt after Ace was nearly 7 months. Then the manga would make it quite clear. In my eyes, the room for your theory is still too short, but I understand why you defend it so much. And as I said earlier, I really like it

The "falsly" was reffering to my memory. I remembered the chapter, which you mentioned, falsly (six instead of three months) and that's why I started this argument in the first place.

Not really important for the discussion, but I wasn't able to follow you on that "Ivankov couldn't heal Sabo"-matter.
I also don't remember that Iva's head prevented him from guarding Dragon. On the other hand, I thought Iva accompanied Dragon when he found Sabo. Gonna read that again.
When drag came back with wounded person iva was mad as why he went without him
And drag responds by saying your (big) head would attract too much attention hinting he couldn't shrink his head thus no df power yet. Iva didn't have his df power sohe couldn't have healed him .
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:35   Link #175
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
When drag came back with wounded person iva was mad as why he went without him
And drag responds by saying your (big) head would attract too much attention hinting he couldn't shrink his head thus no df power yet. Iva didn't have his df power sohe couldn't have healed him .
I'm pretty sure that was just banter.
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Old 2013-09-11, 13:36   Link #176
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Originally Posted by BPD Renegade View Post
I'm pretty sure that was just banter.
Yeah,that was most likely a joke...
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Old 2013-09-11, 14:38   Link #177
ri0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
When drag came back with wounded person iva was mad as why he went without him
And drag responds by saying your (big) head would attract too much attention hinting he couldn't shrink his head thus no df power yet. Iva didn't have his df power sohe couldn't have healed him .
This must have been a joke. Iva was with Dragon, when he met Sabo for the first time in town. If he didn't have his powers, he couldn't have accompanied him back then either.
I also didn't find this "big head"-comment in the manga.
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