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Old 2004-04-22, 11:08   Link #1
gokigenyou
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Fansubs promote commercialism

Hello! This is my first ever post here, so hi everyone.

Some people may argue that fansubs detract from the legitimate sales of commerical product by the copyright holders, but I must say, because of fansubs, I have gone out and bought alot of stuff I would not have usually done so.

For example, this past week, I just bought the first 3 "D.C. Da Capo" DVD box sets, because I saw the fansubs and enjoyed them much.

And, I bought 3 rosarios for "Mariasama ga Miteru" (one of each type) because I got introduced to the show via fansubs.

And the CDs and manga.....

Just my random thought.

Thank you.
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Old 2004-04-22, 11:29   Link #2
Fronzel
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Well, I'll buy Spiral if it ever comes out, and I know I'll buy Kodocha.
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Old 2004-04-22, 11:53   Link #3
Arwyn
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Welcome to the forums!

I would agree with you as well. I wind up spending money on series as they come out in DVD due to the fansubs as well. I will certainly be spending the money to purchase several of the fansubs I have watched recently. DC, Onegai Twins, FMPF, and definately Shingetsutan Tsukihime.

If its good, I buy it.
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Old 2004-04-22, 12:27   Link #4
Melazoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arwyn
Welcome to the forums!

I would agree with you as well. I wind up spending money on series as they come out in DVD due to the fansubs as well. I will certainly be spending the money to purchase several of the fansubs I have watched recently. DC, Onegai Twins, FMPF, and definately Shingetsutan Tsukihime.

If its good, I buy it.
On another note: Tsukihime seems to be close to license. Geneon USA is squatting on the www.tsukihimedvd.com url (or something to that effect). Although there's no official announcement on the license of the animated series. The firm is releasing the Tsukihime OST, detail on their website.

All the above from Animeondvd.com

This is one I might want to buy--I hope they include a Aruceid figurine or something in the obligatory "Premium Edition" Plus it's a short series, 4 DVDs at most with the R1 episode count standard.
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Old 2004-04-22, 14:16   Link #5
microlith
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For example, this past week, I just bought the first 3 "D.C. Da Capo" DVD box sets, because I saw the fansubs and enjoyed them much.

Just out of curiosity, where'd you buy them?
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Old 2004-04-22, 14:35   Link #6
TronDD
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I have not, and never will, buy a show I've never seen before. Even online descriptions and reviews aren't enough. Descriptions can be completly wrong (Narutaru, for example) and many many times, I've hated shows that every one seems to rave about.

Unless more anime comes to TV on a station I get (I'm not gonna pay for digital cable and all the crap that comes with it, just for the anime network), I'll only be buying the DVDs of shows I've seen fansubbed.

no fansubs = no money from me.
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Old 2004-04-22, 14:36   Link #7
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gokigenyou
Hello! This is my first ever post here, so hi everyone.

Some people may argue that fansubs detract from the legitimate sales of commerical product by the copyright holders, but I must say, because of fansubs, I have gone out and bought alot of stuff I would not have usually done so.

For example, this past week, I just bought the first 3 "D.C. Da Capo" DVD box sets, because I saw the fansubs and enjoyed them much.

And, I bought 3 rosarios for "Mariasama ga Miteru" (one of each type) because I got introduced to the show via fansubs.

And the CDs and manga.....

Just my random thought.

Thank you.

If you live in Tokyo, why do you need to rely on fansubs?
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Old 2004-04-22, 14:50   Link #8
gokigenyou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microlith
For example, this past week, I just bought the first 3 "D.C. Da Capo" DVD box sets, because I saw the fansubs and enjoyed them much.

Just out of curiosity, where'd you buy them?

I bought the "D.C. Da Capo" DVD boxes at Liberty 2 in Akihabara. They are having a grand opening sale, so the boxes were only about 6000 yen each.

Though, I was a little annoyed to see that I could have gotten them for 5500 yen at Traders Used Anime just down the street.
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Old 2004-04-22, 14:57   Link #9
babbito2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TronDD
I have not, and never will, buy a show I've never seen before. Even online descriptions and reviews aren't enough. Descriptions can be completly wrong (Narutaru, for example) and many many times, I've hated shows that every one seems to rave about.

Unless more anime comes to TV on a station I get (I'm not gonna pay for digital cable and all the crap that comes with it, just for the anime network), I'll only be buying the DVDs of shows I've seen fansubbed.

no fansubs = no money from me.
This gets my vote. I have seen plenty of bad marketing from US distributors. Anime fans are understandably not often skilled at reviewing titles whether they like or dislike them. Print media people are often not qualified to evaluate what little they see or review (example: a movie reviewer for the Newark, NJ Star-Ledger was annoyed that the characters in a movie had "cliche" big eyes).

It's been said before in a thread or two around here that watching fansubs can be considered the equivalent of getting to see the shows on free TV. In the case of series which are likely to be licensed that is a good way to look at it. In the case of series like Kodomo no Omocha there is no market without fansubs.
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Old 2004-04-22, 14:58   Link #10
gokigenyou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
If you live in Tokyo, why do you need to rely on fansubs?

I missed the original airing for alot of these shows. While I am currently watching stuff like "Madlax" on TV as it airs on TV Tokyo, or setting the DVD-R deck to record stuff, or whatnot, I am finding the internet to be a great way of catching up on shows that I missed out on. (Animesuki has been really convenient on that regard)

Now, to find episode 1 of "Orange Days". I caught episode 2 this past Sunday and am hooked.

Gokigenyou
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Old 2004-04-22, 17:16   Link #11
SketchyMcChips
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Until we get a TV station over here in the UK that shows a fair amount of recent anime then i'll probably keep ownloading Fansubs.

My only real objection to buying DVD's is that the are often released so far after the series has aired - and even longer before they get official distribution in the UK.

I would agree though that fansubs do help to promote series and probably acts as a good guider for the US Distribution companies who are bidding on a series - a quick trek round a few anime discussion forums and robert's your mother's brother.

Of course there is the argument that they may lose sales from the cheap buggers that leech from the net - but that's the way of entertainment media these days
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Old 2004-04-22, 20:37   Link #12
Yebyosh
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People who buy DVDs after watching it for free are a minority.

Face it, who ever saw the sales of DVDs shoot up just because a bootleg of it appeared free for everyone.

Or better yet, I have never heard any of the people around me clamouring to watch a good movie after they downloaded it off the Internet. Yet they praise the movie and such. But when asked if they would buy the DVD or go watch it, guess what answer they give.
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Old 2004-04-22, 21:02   Link #13
Shii
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sp.
commercialism --> buying anime
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Old 2004-04-22, 23:24   Link #14
jennwenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yebyosh
People who buy DVDs after watching it for free are a minority.

Face it, who ever saw the sales of DVDs shoot up just because a bootleg of it appeared free for everyone.

Or better yet, I have never heard any of the people around me clamouring to watch a good movie after they downloaded it off the Internet. Yet they praise the movie and such. But when asked if they would buy the DVD or go watch it, guess what answer they give.
Who says they have to buy the DVD? They may unwittingly "support" the film/anime in other ways by say, buying a T-shirt with the character/logo or buying a poster, or following the actors/director of the film or recemmend it to others. Some sort of usually consumption follows, just not the intended one.

But I just said that to argue. I still don't believe the fansubs=more sales bit. I won't believe until I see numbers, and that's impossible to get.
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Old 2004-04-23, 00:40   Link #15
Rem Margot
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I agree with Jennwenn, until some University economics student/otaku (or, whomever) conducts an empirical, scientific and thorough evaluation...it's hard to argue one way or another.

Speaking personally, I DO buy a lot of anime DVDs (and manga), at least $60 of it a month, sometimes more. The series I collect on DVDs, however, are ones that I know I will re-watch (e.g., Last Exile). However, after watching the entire Wolf's Rain series on fansub, I have no intention of buying the DVDs. I liked the series, but I didn't like that much.

In short, because of the high cost of anime DVDs, I rarely go out of my way and take a gamble to buy a series just to see whether or not I'll like it. This is why I rely on fansubs to help me make my selection. On the whole, personally speaking, fansubs have prompted me to spend more $ on anime than otherwise.

It also comes down to economics. If someone was really strapped for cash, can you really fault them for downloading only fansubs and not buying the official DVDs? If you do, then isn't that a sort of social-elitism? If you're poor, and you can't afford to buy a $32 hard-cover book, and you go to the library to borrow it--no one would think less of you for doing that.

I guess I'm trying to think about this dialectically.

Last edited by Rem Margot; 2004-04-23 at 00:50.
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Old 2004-04-23, 00:45   Link #16
Navi en Grey
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Fansubs are s000 cool!!! ^_^

Its free, so when the anime comes out, I DON'T HAVE TO WASTE MONEY!! ^___^

- Navi
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Old 2004-04-23, 01:30   Link #17
Yebyosh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennwenn
Who says they have to buy the DVD? They may unwittingly "support" the film/anime in other ways by say, buying a T-shirt with the character/logo or buying a poster, or following the actors/director of the film or recemmend it to others. Some sort of usually consumption follows, just not the intended one.
For argument's sake (since we've almost practically agreed on the same point), this is also not likely to be true. It is illogical if you are dying to download something for free but yet willing to shell out at least $20 on a crummy figurine or its bootleg version (bootleg version doesn't generate revenue for the producers anyway). At the end we still need the statistics to prove this But from experience around me, the majority of those that download fansubs generally don't bother with getting anything related to the series. They download it to watch because it was free. If they had to pay to get anything of the series, they'll skip it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem Margot
It also comes down to economics. If someone was really strapped for cash, can you really fault them for downloading only fansubs and not buying the official DVDs? If you do, then isn't that a sort of social-elitism? If you're poor, and you can't afford to buy a $32 hard-cover book, and you go to the library to borrow it--no one would think less of you for doing that.
The library book is a free legal public resource, you borrow a physical media containing the information and return the physical media. Note that copyright laws attempt to discourage you from photocopying the whole entire volume, the consequences of breaking these laws would be criminal. If you are poor and demand that you should be allowed to eat Russian caviar and top-quality French foie gras, should you be allowed to? The same with anime DVDs. They are a luxury. If you cannot afford them, then why should you be justified for stealing them?

I want a Ferrari but I cannot afford one for a million years at the current rate I'm going. But do I have to go round demanding that I should be given a Ferrari?
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Old 2004-04-23, 01:42   Link #18
Rem Margot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yebyosh

The library book is a free legal public resource, you borrow a physical media containing the information and return the physical media. Note that copyright laws attempt to discourage you from photocopying the whole entire volume, the consequences of breaking these laws would be criminal. If you are poor and demand that you should be allowed to eat Russian caviar and top-quality French foie gras, should you be allowed to? The same with anime DVDs. They are a luxury. If you cannot afford them, then why should you be justified for stealing them?
Lol--point well taken. I acquiesce.

Last edited by Rem Margot; 2004-04-23 at 10:45.
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Old 2004-04-23, 01:46   Link #19
Griffith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yebyosh

The library book is a free legal public resource, you borrow a physical media containing the information and return the physical media. Note that copyright laws attempt to discourage you from photocopying the whole entire volume, the consequences of breaking these laws would be criminal. If you are poor and demand that you should be allowed to eat Russian caviar and top-quality French foie gras, should you be allowed to? The same with anime DVDs. They are a luxury. If you cannot afford them, then why should you be justified for stealing them?

I want a Ferrari but I cannot afford one for a million years at the current rate I'm going. But do I have to go round demanding that I should be given a Ferrari?
I don't know that I agree with that. The anime linked to on this site isn't licensed in America, so you can't buy it here. Once it becomes available on DVD here though, assuming you enjoy the show and can afford to purchase it I believe you should, obviously. I myself wouldn't just blindly walk into a store and purchase a DVD of a show I've never heard of, so fansubs are useful to me in that regard.
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Old 2004-04-23, 03:39   Link #20
Yebyosh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffith
I don't know that I agree with that. The anime linked to on this site isn't licensed in America, so you can't buy it here. Once it becomes available on DVD here though, assuming you enjoy the show and can afford to purchase it I believe you should, obviously. I myself wouldn't just blindly walk into a store and purchase a DVD of a show I've never heard of, so fansubs are useful to me in that regard.
We are agreeing that you should buy the DVD to support the industry so that it can flourish or stay on.

But my point is that it is a minority who having taken a free look at the anime, decide to buy the DVD. Quite a lot will simply pass over the DVDs, irregardless of what region they are because they have already watched the contents from the subs.

So fansubs are only helping to promote sales, only if the target are people who would buy the DVDs. But they can also hurt sales by helping these people avoid buying crappy packages (good for us, bad for them). They would not help to convert those who are looking for a free lunch to buy them. So to summarize, it is not likely fansubs help commercialism.
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