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Old 2014-08-14, 05:12   Link #2021
Echizen777
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post

I agree in general with this point (if we consider what Tatsuya's existence should mean to the people who determine what Mahouka's magic system is like). However, if you are also implying either that Tatsuya himself wants to challenge the magic system, or that this is the point of the series, then I'd disagree.
I don't think it is the point of the series but it is the role he has at high school at least.

He is not trying to fight against the discrimination, he comes like a storm and shows his skills. With this, arrogant Blooms are forced to recognize his strength and it breaks their ego and their beliefs. It affected Hanzo in a good way for example and there are others like Morisaki who try refuse to recognize him despite this.
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Old 2014-08-14, 05:28   Link #2022
cyth
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
If you're talking about the story, yes, the character of Tatsuya is a tool by which the author can ridicule the system.
I don't mean the arrogance of the system, but the arrogance of the people participating in it. The author cannot use Tatsuya as a tool of ridicule, because he is simply that awesome.

You can say the Weed/Bloom thing is stupid because it was set up out of that arrogance, but was it really? The distinction it makes is simple: either you have the magic abilities to be a Course 1 or you don't. Distinction can only be perceived as discrimination because some people like Tatsuya and his Course 2 buddies have proven people can be just as if not more effective magic practitioners if there's a twist to their abilities that the system either: 1.) isn't able to measure, or 2.) doesn't appreciate.

We've seen first hand that Mahouka's aptitude tests aren't suitable for certain abilities, they mostly measure raw magic output. As for the (under)appreciation of intricate magic skills, Tatsuya being an "irregular" is exactly why the system shouldn't feel the need to change. He is an outlier, the system works for the majority of people and can't really be called unfair when there's a shortage of instructors. There's also the issue of academic pride. Many academics in our world believe education shouldn't be appropriated to a country's economic or military output. The way things are done in schools of magic is because there's not only arrogance, but more of an appreciation for magic talent, which is what I believe Mahouka's values stand for.

Really, the only one deserving of ridicule here are the zealous magic academics and students, or the ridiculously powerful people with a stick up their ass such as the Clans. Everyone else outside these talent-worshipping institutions knows what's up.
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Old 2014-08-14, 07:02   Link #2023
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yup, it is the @ssholes that needs to be ridiculed
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Old 2014-08-14, 08:46   Link #2024
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I don't mean the arrogance of the system, but the arrogance of the people participating in it. The author cannot use Tatsuya as a tool of ridicule, because he is simply that awesome.
*snip*
Apologies. Misread your point, so I'll have to rephrase (because the point I was making applies to both):

If you're talking about within the story, yes, the existence of Tatsuya effectively ridicules that arrogance, at least in the cohort currently in the school. And if Tatsuya weren't there, then most of them would probably eventually learn that the three things the tests measure don't mean everything, although any arrogant berk at the 9SC probably wouldn't. But the notion that that arrogance exists only within the school system is untrue. At the very least, others within the Yotsuba display it; so it might be held amongst people in the magical community as well, even if we haven't been shown it, no?

However, in terms of it being petty to take a cause against that... correct me if I've read you wrong again, but by this
Quote:
But isn't that something really petty to take a cause against? Most of the students will graduate and enter the real world soon enough where they will learn exactly what Tatsuya has already.
you seem to be suggesting that Tatsuya himself makes it a point to ridicule them. But what I personally get from that show is that Tatusya himself doesn't actually care about their arrogance. At least, that's what his behaviour (not wanting to be part of the Public Morals committee, not wanting to be part of Mibu's group) suggests to me.
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Old 2014-08-14, 09:22   Link #2025
cyth
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I don't believe he wants to ridicule anybody, nor do I think he's being used as a tool for ridicule against anyone or anything else. That is the first layer of my point. The second layer of my point is, even if he were to be a tool for ridicule, we should discredit him as such. If compared against students, because of his training. If compared against other talented magicians (be them Yotsubas or whoever), because he has certain innate power-boosting abilities of his own AND because of his training. He's had unfair advantages in life, compared to his peers, that makes him powerful, which makes him just as privileged as other powerful magicians.

Really, it just comes down to who's stronger. If he beats the Yotsuba, I wouldn't be rooting for him because he's an underdog. That's impossible. He has so many abilities and early-acquired skills he has to be seen as the favorite. Why we're rooting for him is because we want to see a perfect score.

EDIT: I should clarify, I don't mean there isn't any ridicule to be had. There's a certain joy in seeing arrogant people break, but he's not the person to do it because his skillset is in many ways superior and outside of what to expect in an educational institution such as Mahouka. Taking down arrogance was much better demonstrated in Harry Potter where a muggle could outshine the ones with the best blood. In Fate/Zero, magicians cursed Kiritsugu because he wasn't playing by the rules. He was operating outside their play field. What it came down to was how strong a person was, not what kind or how powerful of a magic he wielded.

Last edited by cyth; 2014-08-14 at 09:48.
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Old 2014-08-14, 20:06   Link #2026
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
However, running away from the Yotsubas and toward SDF isn't the answer, not if you want to argue he's anti-authoritarian. But I guess this is beside the point.
Actually he is not running away,(from my point of view) hes just waiting to
1. annihilate the yotsubas and make a fresh start with miyuki(his aunt started to be cautious around him since she knows that he can beat her)
or
2. staying still until miyuki becomes the head of the clan and then just do whatever he wants since nobody in the clan will dare to say something to him

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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I don't know exactly whether his ability to store magic and activation sequences as images in memory is his innate ability or not,
Its an ability innate in the yotsuba members(from what i know), but tatsuya is the only one who is using it, its flash cast
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Old 2014-08-15, 01:24   Link #2027
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
Perhaps this point was raised previously, but Tatsuya's thing is that he was given the opportunity to practice magic in a more applied manner. The rest of Mahouka's students are still sticking to "theory", whereas Tatsuya has been getting down and dirty with implementing it in military operations for a long time now. He understands first-hand that magic talent isn't everything. Everybody operating a customized CAD should.

Mahouka seems like an institution that celebrates magic in its purest form and theory surrounding it, and assesses people accordingly. What Tatsuya is ridiculing is the arrogance that stems from that, not the system and framing they set up. But isn't that something really petty to take a cause against? Most of the students will graduate and enter the real world soon enough where they will learn exactly what Tatsuya has already.

I don't know exactly whether his ability to store magic and activation sequences as images in memory is his innate ability or not, but then you can't use Tatsuya as a vehicle to prove the application of magic is what trumps everything else. Not when he has these abilities and has received the training needed to pull it off. Him walking into Mahouka to dismantle their arrogance is like an eight-grader picking on a first-grader. Tatsuya is an irregular, but that doesn't say anything about Mahouka's business. He's just that OP.
The author is the one ridiculing it (yeah, I know he made it, this shit is weird). Tatsuya doesn't give a shit. If anything, he'd be grateful since that system helped conceal him till Mayumi dumped him on center stage over and over.
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Old 2014-08-15, 10:22   Link #2028
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Preview pics for Ep.20





Spoiler:
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Old 2014-08-15, 12:07   Link #2029
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Preview pics for Ep.20





Spoiler:
Best Mayumi scene incoming.....
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Old 2014-08-15, 16:00   Link #2030
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You think so? How is authority wrong in Mahouka's world? Last I checked Tatsuya works for the government and hates terrorists, he actually went against them when their selling point was them hating on discrimination, the only point I'd make what Tatsuya hates about authority.
I wouldn't say it's authority as a whole that's wrong with their world, just some parts of it

Like the head of Tatsuya's family, certain parts of school or whatnot and the discrimination that followed

Tatsuya is ridiculously strong but most people disregard him as weak even though his style of fighting and/or magic has a lot of practical uses in real combat and not simple school tests- which reflects a weak mindset by people that just accept whatever the system, (authority) puts in front of them, instead of a mindset or populace that thinks for themselves. To some degree anyway.

There's still issues possibly even within the government that's assisting Tatsuya, as well. 'only emotion he has left is love for his sister' But why? The anime showed him as in a test tube or something, maybe half alive after being almost killed and the one thing they kept in him was his love for his sister. Whether this had influence by Tatsuya's family or not, I'm unsure. But there's still other issues as well, such as references/implications/outright saying "using Tatsuya as a tool"

An argument could be made that the current authority is corrupted, that authority is only partially corrupt, or authority is fundamentally corrupted and will continue to corrupt people, I'm not sure where the author lands on this

- Someone who watched the anime but didn't go into the manga

Last edited by That_one_guy; 2014-08-16 at 09:42.
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Old 2014-08-16, 09:08   Link #2031
LKK
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Originally Posted by That_one_guy View Post
I could be wrong so anyone is free to correct me
If you want an answer to your question, please post it in the Q&A thread or ask for a PM response. As the title states, this thread doesn't allow spoilers and the answer to your question qualifies as a spoiler.
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Old 2014-08-16, 09:42   Link #2032
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If you want an answer to your question, please post it in the Q&A thread or ask for a PM response. As the title states, this thread doesn't allow spoilers and the answer to your question qualifies as a spoiler.
I only meant in terms of events that have happened but I edited it out to avoid any confusion
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Old 2014-08-16, 10:42   Link #2033
karice67
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@cyth

Ok, I think I get what you were trying to argue now. My own point was basically that "'Ridiculing the system' is not what I think the author was trying to do with Tatsuya in the first place (so there's no point in trying to evaluate whether it's effective or not)." And the former part of my point is effectively your first point, which I don't think was clear in the first few posts that I was replying to.
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Old 2014-08-21, 14:46   Link #2034
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Old 2014-08-22, 11:28   Link #2035
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This week is superinteresting
Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Old 2014-08-23, 15:35   Link #2036
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^
\o/



The total sales for Vol.1 of the DVD/BD as of now is 12,436 copies.
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Old 2014-08-23, 17:38   Link #2037
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Originally Posted by AceTrigger View Post
^
\o/



The total sales for Vol.1 of the DVD/BD as of now is 12,436 copies.
So I guess that means that the show is a success, and the "critics" are the vocal minority.

Sometimes, it is best to just sit back and enjoy the show (any show) for what it is (unless it insults your intelligence... here's looking at you, Coppelion), although, in this show, you also need to pick up the details and interpret it. Over-analyzing any show will kill it. There are people who over-analyze Game of Thrones and are vocal about it concerning what they believe is wrong... the end result is that they do not enjoy it as much. For most shows, people should really just go along and enjoy the ride.
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Old 2014-08-23, 17:58   Link #2038
cyth
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So I guess that means that the show is a success, and the "critics" are the vocal minority.
While 12k isn't a failure, in this day and age I wonder if it can be called a success. The threshold for success differs from show to show anyway.

As for critics being a vocal minority, I see a lot of critics on both sides, the novel reader as well as anime watcher side. Calling them a minority is a cheap attempt to dismiss the sentiment that this show has some serious flaws.

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For most shows, people should really just go along and enjoy the ride.
I would recommend this only to people with no brain left to spare. The rest of us will continue using them, thank you.
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Old 2014-08-23, 18:18   Link #2039
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While 12k isn't a failure, in this day and age I wonder if it can be called a success.
Especially since this was being hyped up as the next SAO or Attack on Titan.
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Old 2014-08-23, 18:23   Link #2040
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Especially since this was being hyped up as the next SAO or Attack on Titan.
Anyone who says this is gonna match attack on titan is literally dumb and doesn't know the Japanese market at all.
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