AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Monogatari Series

Notices

View Poll Results: Monogatari Series Second Season - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 6 19.35%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 8 25.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 41.94%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 9.68%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 3.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-09-29, 07:53   Link #21
Shikijin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Otori is one of my favorite novels. I see people have a low opinion of Nadeko, who is in fact a minor character that did nothing particularly worthwhile after being introduced. After an arc devoted to her chara development possibly people will think it was good to have her around.

Nadeko is a character designed to be moe, though I think the anime emphasized this even more than the novels did. In her story, Nadeko Snake, she was the victim. She is not completely helpless, but she is never openly confrontative. Nadeko is now forced to confront the limits of her coping style. I think Shinobu was unnecessarily rude here, though it is a nice contrast to see how a character look from a different view point. Araragi comes off as caring as ever, though a bit of a nuisance for his unusually keen intuition, and perplexing in his growing lolicon streak.

The real star of this episode though was Kuchinawa. This is the kind of character that can make you laugh without being silly, just because of his personality. While seemingly too self-centered to truly care about Nadeko, he is still helpful by not being complaisant.
Shikijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-29, 09:15   Link #22
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 28
Shinobu was being pretty harsh considering Nadeko is only 14, but she's not wrong and it's probably a good thing Nadeko got to hear this so early in her life. Maybe this will motivate her to change. Shinobu could have put this a bit more nicely, but it's clear to me she doesn't like Nadeko so there was no reason for her to go out of her way to avoid hurting her.

Shinobu and Nadeko are my favorite characters so it was great to see them interact at long last.

Araragi was the same as usual. Very caring and hopelessly perverted. I was under the assumption he was impervious to Nadeko's charms after that twister sequence in Nise, but that's apparently not the case.
__________________
Rize and Kaneki
Kanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-29, 09:39   Link #23
Dark Faith
Often Disappointed
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portugal
Age: 29
I think being a pervert is second nature to Araragi by now Not that I think he'd act on it, but he just needs to say it anyway.

Loved the episode, even if nothing really happened. The last part with Shinobu laying the verbal smackdown was great.
Dark Faith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-29, 12:26   Link #24
Zaresh
Caperucita Roja
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Over the rainbow
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThereminVox View Post
This is exactly my read on Nadeko, though in her defense, I'd like to again point out that she's 14, and hardly unique in this respect. It's just the way she's used to coping, and it's probably something that she could grow out of under normal circumstances. The real trouble is that this selfish, manipulative side of her seems to have attracted/created/whatever this snake monster.

When Shinobu started laying into her, I figured that the little vampire had some inkling of what was really going on. I actually kind of thought that she was warning Nadeko that even though she's just a kid, she needs to get her shit sorted out immediately, before something terrible happens.

But hey, what do I know? Maybe she really was just being catty and felt like serving up a good tongue-lashing to the resident self-styled ingénue.
Yep, I agree: it's like your average teen girl, specially if she's been a spoiled child. Which is something it happens all the time, too.

Even so, I still dislike her.

Oh, about Araragi and his perverted nature, kept in mind that this story is told from Nadeko's point of view. I bet it has an effect on how we see his behaviour.

Last edited by Zaresh; 2013-09-29 at 12:33. Reason: Adding stuff
Zaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-29, 13:16   Link #25
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
Yep, I agree: it's like your average teen girl, specially if she's been a spoiled child. Which is something it happens all the time, too.

Even so, I still dislike her.

Oh, about Araragi and his perverted nature, kept in mind that this story is told from Nadeko's point of view. I bet it has an effect on how we see his behaviour.
He tried to sleep with a 14 year old. There really isn't much ways you can look at it.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-29, 13:36   Link #26
taichi-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Shinobu was being pretty harsh considering Nadeko is only 14, but it's clear to me she doesn't like Nadeko so there was no reason for her to go out of her way to avoid hurting her.
I think shinobu was just jealous because nadeko is very cute( she even placed nadeko over gahara and I must agree with her ).Shinobu knows very well who is the real final boss,she doesn't even mind about gahara being koyomi's GF yet she was worried about nadeko

I still wonder how is nadeko supposed to be "manipulative" when she is a loner..

Oh and that teacher what an asshole

Last edited by taichi-kun; 2013-09-29 at 14:09.
taichi-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-29, 15:21   Link #27
FlareKnight
User of the "Fast Draw"
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 28
Send a message via AIM to FlareKnight Send a message via MSN to FlareKnight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
Yep, I agree: it's like your average teen girl, specially if she's been a spoiled child. Which is something it happens all the time, too.

Even so, I still dislike her.

Oh, about Araragi and his perverted nature, kept in mind that this story is told from Nadeko's point of view. I bet it has an effect on how we see his behaviour.
I think from any perspective that's pretty much Araragi behavior in a nutshell .
__________________
FlareKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-29, 16:26   Link #28
Zaresh
Caperucita Roja
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Over the rainbow
Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
He tried to sleep with a 14 year old. There really isn't much ways you can look at it.
Well, you see, maybe he doesn't mind to sleep with a child. As far as I recall, he did very missunderstable things with her in Nise because he didn't really think of her as a girl but as a child. I think this may be a similar case.

Just remember the phone call. He didn't sound like someone who is interested in her in "that" way.

I think.
Maybe.

I mean, I don't remember it all that clear, but still, it may be the case.

Of course, it may be a case of bad writting, or just a case of "The author did it FTL", same as the teeth brushing scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I think from any perspective that's pretty much Araragi behavior in a nutshell .
I know, I know. But he wasn't interested in her in Nise. Well, he was interested in her when she was naked in Bake, but for comedic effect, I guess...

Nah, forget it.
Zaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-29, 17:24   Link #29
SQA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Yeah, I liked Koyomi being oblivious to Nadeko's advances, which made the Twister scene in Nise so hilarious.

Of course, apparently Koyomi was spying on Tsukihi, so this is a bit more of the pervert Koyomi. I think it's better when it's directed only at Hachikuji & Hanekawa.
SQA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-30, 04:45   Link #30
Shikijin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
Well, you see, maybe he doesn't mind to sleep with a child. As far as I recall, he did very missunderstable things with her in Nise because he didn't really think of her as a girl but as a child. I think this may be a similar case.
Yeah, I too think it may be something like that. Something like an unreliable narrator. IIRC Hanekawa in the novel of Neko Shiro stated that Araragi embellished a bit her character (though maybe this was just modesty), so possibly not everything that is narrated is to be considered factually true, but at most a subjective impression. Then again, the characters often tell jokes because they know the other party understand they were jokes. It is for this reason that Araragi created his lolicon character, just to make the audience laugh, although it doesn't always appear to be simply a gag

Anyway, when it's a gag don't think too much about it, just laugh
Shikijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-30, 06:33   Link #31
Helius
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: stuck between galaxies
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Faith View Post
I think being a pervert is second nature to Araragi by now Not that I think he'd act on it, but he just needs to say it anyway.

Loved the episode, even if nothing really happened. The last part with Shinobu laying the verbal smackdown was great.
Y'know, this is the one time I wish Shinobu hadn't shown up. Would've loved to see Nadeko's reaction to Araragi's "offer".

Anyway, not a novel reader myself, but after that little slice of what is to come, I think this ep is important in the sense that it illustrates the chain of events that would push Nadeko over the edge.

Although people like Ougi and Shinobu were being "mean" to her, that wasn't the cause per se. If anything they were trying to get her out of the victim mentality and to start asserting herself instead of being a pushover and doing things in a roundabout way. Yes, they were rude to her, but that just reflects there's something fundamentally "wrong" about her personality, and failing to realise this has resulted in her transformation... and I think that's an important message - as part of growing up, before you blame it on the circumstances, you should start by looking at what it is about yourself that would attract that kind of reaction from people, so that you can know yourself better. What's right or wrong, what's fair or unfair, they come later.

Last edited by Helius; 2013-09-30 at 06:45. Reason: Typo
Helius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-30, 10:50   Link #32
Cosmic Eagle
生と死の刹那に未知の結末を見る
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ghetto der Ewigkeit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
Otori is one of my favorite novels. I see people have a low opinion of Nadeko, who is in fact a minor character that did nothing particularly worthwhile after being introduced. After an arc devoted to her chara development possibly people will think it was good to have her around.

Nadeko is a character designed to be moe, though I think the anime emphasized this even more than the novels did. In her story, Nadeko Snake, she was the victim. She is not completely helpless, but she is never openly confrontative. Nadeko is now forced to confront the limits of her coping style. I think Shinobu was unnecessarily rude here, though it is a nice contrast to see how a character look from a different view point. Araragi comes off as caring as ever, though a bit of a nuisance for his unusually keen intuition, and perplexing in his growing lolicon streak.

The real star of this episode though was Kuchinawa. This is the kind of character that can make you laugh without being silly, just because of his personality. While seemingly too self-centered to truly care about Nadeko, he is still helpful by not being complaisant.
Although honestly speaking since when is Shinobu not disdainful of anyone....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
I think the point with Nadeko, the reason why Shinobu was bullying her, and the reason why the Snake was mad at her, was that she always, always goes with the flow, is lazy and doesn't want to deal with the consecuences of her irresponsible acts. And because she's lucky and cute, she survives, just because other people saves her.

She's kinda femme fatale, not exactly, but quite a bit.
It's called people who are naturally dumb and bring trouble that you have to deal with if you are with them. But then there are plenty of such people you'll meet in life and you cannot really fault them ultimately...She's far from being a femme fatale.
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-30, 14:23   Link #33
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Faith View Post
I think being a pervert is second nature to Araragi by now Not that I think he'd act on it, but he just needs to say it anyway.

Loved the episode, even if nothing really happened. The last part with Shinobu laying the verbal smackdown was great.
It looked a bit too much like bullying the weak. Which I suppose means Shinobu's right about Nadeko's effect on people. Then again, Nadeko's a child, and Shinobu's centuries old.

Any behavior can be seen in a bad light, if one decides to do so. And when you do it to someone who lacks self-esteem...
Anh_Minh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-30, 15:54   Link #34
Shikijin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
It's called people who are naturally dumb and bring trouble that you have to deal with if you are with them. But then there are plenty of such people you'll meet in life and you cannot really fault them ultimately...She's far from being a femme fatale.
Femme fatale was obviously not the word he was looking for... still, it sounded a bit ridiculous to call Nadeko a femme fatale until I learned there was the younger version, the fille fatale. In manga she is characterized by the "I love you, but we can't be together until I am of legal age". I think I know some examples

I think in English there isn't a term to describe what Nadeko did in Nise. There are mostly foul words implying promiscuity or treachery, which was not the case.

Aside from that, Nadeko is just an introvert with low energy and poor stress reaction. I wouldn't blame her for that, but then again I am a bit of an introvert myself
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Which I suppose means Shinobu's right about Nadeko's effect on people.
I think Shinobu's words don't apply only to Nadeko. It was a good speech, in that sense.
Shikijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-30, 20:51   Link #35
Dawn
^o^
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Australia
I'm having Hitagi withdrawals.
Dawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-09-30, 23:20   Link #36
Zaresh
Caperucita Roja
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Over the rainbow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Although honestly speaking since when is Shinobu not disdainful of anyone....

It's called people who are naturally dumb and bring trouble that you have to deal with if you are with them. But then there are plenty of such people you'll meet in life and you cannot really fault them ultimately...She's far from being a femme fatale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin
Femme fatale was obviously not the word he was looking for... still, it sounded a bit ridiculous to call Nadeko a femme fatale until I learned there was the younger version, the fille fatale. In manga she is characterized by the "I love you, but we can't be together until I am of legal age". I think I know some examples
Yes, I know femme fatale isn't the word, but I can't bring a better one for the concept. I'm sorry.
Zaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-02, 00:42   Link #37
ID555
Kamaboko smash & grab
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post

Araragi was the same as usual. Very caring and hopelessly perverted. I was under the assumption he was impervious to Nadeko's charms after that twister sequence in Nise, but that's apparently not the case.


If Shinobu wasn't around to stop him, I think we would have heard 'It's okay, it's just the tip....'


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn View Post
I'm having Hitagi withdrawals.
I know. She was barely there in Nise, and now this......TT___TT
ID555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-02, 01:19   Link #38
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Shinobu was supposed to guide his cock, not block it.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-02, 22:31   Link #39
teja208
Critical fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere with anime and anime discussion is fine
I'm actually surprised how easily Araragi was knocked out with just one blow. Shinobu at this state shouldn't be stronger than Kagenui right?
teja208 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-10-03, 01:39   Link #40
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
I'm actually surprised how easily Araragi was knocked out with just one blow. Shinobu at this state shouldn't be stronger than Kagenui right?
An uppercut does more damage than you think.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.