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Old 2013-10-11, 10:59   Link #41
Estavali
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Just to add on a little to what aohige has provided so far =3:

On Samurai: As mentioned they have very damaging one hit attacks, but this comes with a long cool-down. This means Samurai players have to time themselves well to make the best of their skills and to avoid running out of skills to use during their cool-down.

While they can use a range of Oriental weapons, the Samurai's chief weapon is still the Nihonto. These are generally classified under two groups: the larger Tachi that is more on brute power and the smaller Katana that is suitable for players that prefers speed and agility. FYI, Soujirou's a Katana-user.

On 8th District Shopping Centre: The funny thing is that despite its very merchant-like name, the 8th District actually started off as a group of causal players who played Elder Tale just to chitchat (of course they did go adventuring as well but that's secondary). The guild started doing business simply because they enjoyed the process... In a way we can compare them to a bunch of Recettes, without the debt and fairy. Charasin was nominated to be their representative, so he has, relatively speaking, less authority over his people compared to fellow crafter guildmasters like Michitaka and Roderick. This doesn't change that the fact that he's well-respected not only by his guildies but also folks from outside the guild.

On Honesty: Honesty, led by the "Guru/Grandmaster" Eins, is known for their belief that information should be freely shared. They actively gather and disseminate information on large Raids, providing pictured walkthroughs on the 'Net for all to see. In this way they contribute to the servers' activities, but it's also due to this belief that puts them at loggerheads with some of the top guilds.

On the West Wind Brigade: Despite its relatively small size, the Brigade is good at attacking and beating Raids faster than most. The guild is structured like a pyramid, with Soujirou at the top. Also, I'm not sure if Nazuna really sees him in a romantic light. AFAIK she just thinks of him as an adorable little brother.

On Radio Market: Akaneya is an old-timer that has been around longer than even Shiroe and his guild is pretty old too. The old chap runs his guild on low profile as he dislikes the bickering between different factions and this has attracted solo players to him. Including himself, the Radio Market is known for being home to many high leveled but eccentric players.

On Grandeur: Woodstock formed Grandeur in protest to the Black Sword's elitist ways and its main purpose is to provide low~mid level consumables.
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Last edited by Estavali; 2013-11-05 at 19:42.
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Old 2013-10-11, 11:02   Link #42
Krono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
SAO is a harem and I won't deny that but for LogHora is probably different but I'll wait for more info but so far. I don't see any indication that's why I was surprised when aohige said that there are girls liking Shiroe. Soujirou is different because he has a guild of harem but for Shiroe, if you look at the novel. So far he is more like a politician >_> and really Shiroe and Akatsuki is a solid pair. So I can agree that its an OTP story.
See, the problem is that SAO isn't a harem. The extremely loose definitions needed to define it as one can also be applied to Log Horizon. Shiroe and Akatsuki being a solid pair is immaterial as Kirito and Asuna are far more of a solid pair by all that's been said so far, and yet people like you continue to call SAO a harem. As long as this sort of double standard is at work, I expect we'll be seeing people calling Log Horizon a harem in reaction to it if nothing else.
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Old 2013-10-11, 11:26   Link #43
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
See, the problem is that SAO isn't a harem. The extremely loose definitions needed to define it as one can also be applied to Log Horizon. Shiroe and Akatsuki being a solid pair is immaterial as Kirito and Asuna are far more of a solid pair by all that's been said so far, and yet people like you continue to call SAO a harem. As long as this sort of double standard is at work, I expect we'll be seeing people calling Log Horizon a harem in reaction to it if nothing else.
I will stop calling SAO harem if the girls stop pursuing Kirito or no more girls are added to his so called harem. And no =_= the girls still like him as shown in later volumes. That's what people so called harem.

Log hora is different because they didn't even pursue that feeling. If I may say so I will probably call it love triangle with Minori but that is probably stretching it. Henrietta is professional on her feeling which is why I was surprised when she like Shiroe. And look at the op and ed of Log Hora. You won't even see it that other girls like Shiroe aside from Akatsuki because you get the feeling that they Shiroe and AKatsuki are the main pair.

And lets stop talking about pairing or harem here because they are different. Log Hora is otp and sao is harem even if kirito already had a girlfriend since the beginning. Story wise fit doesn't seem so.
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Old 2013-10-11, 11:41   Link #44
aohige
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Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Just to add on a little to what aohige has provided so far =3:
I honestly think the Round Table episode is gonna be the win-or-lose episode for the anime.
The director would have to be a moron to mess it up, and should have the potential to win over any nay-sayers.
At least, that's how awesome I found it to be.
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Old 2013-10-11, 11:43   Link #45
Krono
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
I will stop calling SAO harem if the girls stop pursuing Kirito or no more girls are added to his so called harem. And no =_= the girls still like him as shown in later volumes. That's what people so called harem.
A harem series is something like Love Hina, or Highschool DxD, or To Love-ru where every girl theoretically has an equal chance. A series where one girl has already definitively won isn't.

Quote:
And lets stop talking about pairing or harem here because they are different. Log Hora is otp and sao is harem even if kirito already had a girlfriend since the beginning. Story wise fit doesn't seem so.
And you illustrate my point. Going around calling SAO a harem series because it has multiple girls attracted to the main character even though though he has a one true pair; while insisting that LH isn't a harem series even though the main character has multiple girls attracted to him, and has a potential one true pair is going to provoke people into responding with either "No, Log Horizon is a harem", or "No Sword Art Online isn't a harem." We can agree to disagree on this matter here, but it's likely to repeated by other people elsewhere.

I'll be happy if Log Horizon manages to avoid being unjustly tarred with the harem label, but like I said before I'm not optimistic about it.
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Old 2013-10-11, 12:24   Link #46
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
A harem series is something like Love Hina, or Highschool DxD, or To Love-ru where every girl theoretically has an equal chance. A series where one girl has already definitively won isn't.
love hina has naru as main girl interest aswell as highschool dxd has rias >_> you know there are better examples but to love ru is indeed a real harem show but in the end there is lala and haruna but in to love ru darkness it looks like the author forget the character development of rito and just wing it with momo as organizer of rito's harem =_=,

We will see if log hora will fall into harem category as the anime was shown. As long as log hora wasn't shown in the same category with mc and girl stuck together for some time and the girl blush and shown affection and still show in the future then it probably won't be slap stick with harem label.

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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I honestly think the Round Table episode is gonna be the win-or-lose episode for the anime.
The director would have to be a moron to mess it up, and should have the potential to win over any nay-sayers.
At least, that's how awesome I found it to be.
Why is Shiroe a schemer? you called him schemer but strike it through as he had a plan instead of a scheme.
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Old 2013-10-11, 12:28   Link #47
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He used deception, fraud, and insinuated coercion to achieve his goals.
He's the type that would use underhanded means if the end result is justifiable.

Shiroe is infamous as the "the Scheming four-eyes" by the players of Yamato server.
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Old 2013-10-11, 13:01   Link #48
Quol
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Just wanted to clear this up since it seems no one really knows... There are different types of harems. Not all harems will have each girl with an equal shot at the mc nor will they have an OTP. As a general rule of thumb if an anime has 1 boy with 3+ girls connected mainly to him (that is to say there might be other guys but the girls associate with him far more then the others) its usually a harem.
SAO would be a harem without a doubt, log horizon would be a harem if they spent more time developing the relationships between shiroe and the other girls much more then if they did with the other guys.
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Last edited by Quol; 2013-10-11 at 14:03.
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Old 2013-10-11, 16:23   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Quol View Post
Just wanted to clear this up since it seems no one really knows... There are different types of harems. Not all harems will have each girl with an equal shot at the mc nor will they have an OTP. As a general rule of thumb if an anime has 1 boy with 3+ girls connected mainly to him (that is to say there might be other guys but the girls associate with him far more then the others) its usually a harem.
SAO would be a harem without a doubt, log horizon would be a harem if they spent more time developing the relationships between shiroe and the other girls much more then if they did with the other guys.
I'm pretty sure a harem doesn't matter if the relationships are developed. As you said, 1 boy+3 or more girls is enough to be classified as a harem. So by that, Log Horizon is a harem. It's just doesn't stress it.
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Old 2013-10-11, 16:36   Link #50
blackwhite67
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Do the players ever get over the all the food tasting like crap? I can't help but think they'd go crazy otherwise.
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Old 2013-10-11, 17:05   Link #51
erdii
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this is why I like Korean webtoons. there aren't many harems among them. by the way I thought SAO was harem. that was one of the reasons I didn't read taht series
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Old 2013-10-11, 17:35   Link #52
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this is why I like Korean webtoons. there aren't many harems among them. by the way I thought SAO was harem. that was one of the reasons I didn't read taht series
SAO has a been a of girls that like the MC but the MC is one girl guy and they go together pretty early.
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Old 2013-10-11, 17:52   Link #53
Quol
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For me i'm fine with harems as long as its not the kind where the less then useless mc picks up a pencil that a girl dropped so now she has to fall in love with him and take off all her clothes.

Thankfully log horizon doesnt seem like that kind of story.
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Old 2013-10-11, 20:30   Link #54
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Do the players ever get over the all the food tasting like crap? I can't help but think they'd go crazy otherwise.
Food is actually one of the most important plot element, if not the most.
It's a catalyst to whole crap load of events that changes the course of their world.

By episode 10-11 of the anime you'll see what I mean... in fact, all major events and developments from episode 6~10 is possible because of it.
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Old 2013-10-11, 20:56   Link #55
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Food is actually one of the most important plot element, if not the most.
It's a catalyst to whole crap load of events that changes the course of their world.

By episode 10-11 of the anime you'll see what I mean... in fact, all major events and developments from episode 6~10 is possible because of it.
aohige, as someone who's clearly read the LN, could you share any criticisms you may have? Any complaints about the plot or character development we're likely to see? I'd appreciate the heads up if it reflects in the anime.
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Old 2013-10-11, 22:01   Link #56
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There are some, but I don't think they will apply to the anime since it's mostly problems with the narrative the author use.

For example, wordy descriptions. The author is extremely wordy at some of the most odd moments.
Let's say person A says a simple question to person B. The narrative abruptly stops to give massive infodump on background of the the character, then blah blah blahs off in tangent from there, and a whole page or two later finally gets back to the scene with person B replying. Reader: eh, what the hell was the question again?

There's also the rampant usage of cliffhanger scene changes.
A segment climax with surprising declaration -> switch to event somewhere else, which climax to a situation -> abruptly switch back to the previous segment to show the reaction, etc.
It's a common writing style, and not inherently bad. But when you do it several times in a row? It becomes hair tearingly annoying.

I'm pretty sure these will be alleviated in the anime and manga though.
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Old 2013-10-12, 01:10   Link #57
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
SAO has a been a of girls that like the MC but the MC is one girl guy and they go together pretty early.
But Asuna was left behind most of the time and a new girl appear which lessen her screen time and specially in underworld.

Why is the food become a problem?

I can think of it as a necessary because one becomes hungry in their situation so monopoly of food would be a good move if one starts power struggle but still >_> it taste bland.
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Old 2013-10-12, 01:26   Link #58
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When you eat bland food everyday, you won't feel like living anymore due to low morale. I remember a segment of story in Grandia 2 where a village was possessed by a monster and cursed to having any of their food taste like sand. Most of the villagers are leaving the village but in Log Horizon, where else can you go?
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Old 2013-10-12, 06:35   Link #59
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
But Asuna was left behind most of the time and a new girl appear which lessen her screen time and specially in underworld.

Why is the food become a problem?

I can think of it as a necessary because one becomes hungry in their situation so monopoly of food would be a good move if one starts power struggle but still >_> it taste bland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgwc View Post
When you eat bland food everyday, you won't feel like living anymore due to low morale. I remember a segment of story in Grandia 2 where a village was possessed by a monster and cursed to having any of their food taste like sand. Most of the villagers are leaving the village but in Log Horizon, where else can you go?
Wait, but doesn't all the food already taste like nothing to begin with? So what's the point of that? Unless there's actually a method to give food taste.
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Old 2013-10-12, 09:44   Link #60
Estavali
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Food is actually one of the most important plot element, if not the most.
It's a catalyst to whole crap load of events that changes the course of their world.

By episode 10-11 of the anime you'll see what I mean... in fact, all major events and developments from episode 6~10 is possible because of it.
For some strange reason food always play a big role in Mamare's more major works (MaoYuu, LogHora and Afterschool Trattoria)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
There are some, but I don't think they will apply to the anime since it's mostly problems with the narrative the author use.

For example, wordy descriptions. The author is extremely wordy at some of the most odd moments.
Let's say person A says a simple question to person B. The narrative abruptly stops to give massive infodump on background of the the character, then blah blah blahs off in tangent from there, and a whole page or two later finally gets back to the scene with person B replying. Reader: eh, what the hell was the question again?

There's also the rampant usage of cliffhanger scene changes.
A segment climax with surprising declaration -> switch to event somewhere else, which climax to a situation -> abruptly switch back to the previous segment to show the reaction, etc.
It's a common writing style, and not inherently bad. But when you do it several times in a row? It becomes hair tearingly annoying.

I'm pretty sure these will be alleviated in the anime and manga though.
Mamare seems pretty awkward when it comes to narrative; his style is more fluid with MaoYuu's script format.

Another problem, one that also pops up in MaoYuu, is that Mamare have the tendency, an urge really, to be as precise as he can when it comes to details, especially when he's explaining a concept. While this makes good info dump, it can hurt the flow of his writing, which is as highlighted by aohige above.

To sum it up, Mamare is good with world building and he's also good at using tropes and stereotypes to create the effect he wants. His main weakness is the way he tells the story, which I think will be improved on now that he's gone pro and has an editor to work with him =3


Btw, on the topic about food, we might want to remember that while bland food is a new (and torturous) experience to the Adventurers, the same cannot be said to the Earthlings who are born to such world and, unlike the Adventurers, do not know what's it's like to eat tasty food. Comparisons cannot be made when there's nothing else to compare to, you see =3
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