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Old 2013-10-20, 15:18   Link #21
BaronNoir
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Can they rank ''Love Ru'' as loli stuff ?
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Old 2013-10-20, 15:38   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronNoir View Post
Can they rank ''Love Ru'' as loli stuff ?
Dunno? It's up for interpretation by Customs, since TRU isn't obvious loli.
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Old 2013-10-20, 15:46   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyexpress48 View Post
Well, lolicon isn't exactly illegal in the US though, and it's pretty much sold in a lot of places (heck, you can find stuff worse than the To-Love-Ru artbooks in your Barnes and Noble)...usually Feds in any nation only cares if you downloaded from a real child porn site.
It definitely isn't. That's why it was only used in cases when the accused had actual child porn and was used as additional evidence. That's not how the news would have you believe though.
Quote:
However, that's one pretty big issue right there. A lot of the anime/hentai/manga/doujin seized by Canadian authorities actually came via the United States and not from Japan, ironically; some people told me that they felt safe "importing" lolicon from the US instead of Japan, which is hilariously false.
That's even scarier.
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Old 2013-10-20, 15:51   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It definitely isn't. That's why it was only used in cases when the accused had actual child porn and was used as additional evidence. That's not how the news would have you believe though.
Actually, no. It's not exactly legal, but it's not illegal either. Local obscenity laws apply here.

Keep in mind, it was illegal for a good while under the PROTECT Act banning "fictional depictions", but that was struck down in the Chris Handley case as unconstitutional. Now, you could argue that obscenity laws still apply (which took down Handley,) but that's not lolicon-specific. You could get in trouble via obscenity laws for a lot of porn...depending on your jurisdiction. There's federal charges for obscene material, but no federal standard of what it actually is (besides the Miller Test.)

There was this guy who was being investigated for CP, had lolicon on his PC and got arrested, but eventually they dropped all charges on him;
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...explicit-anime

And since I don't feel like typing shit, this is a good guide on the law surrounding lolicon and explicit manga, especially on the US/Canada issue when it comes to lolicon.
http://cbldf.org/2013/10/faq-graphic...ng-the-border/

Legal document on the status of lolicon in Canada;
http://cbldf.org/wp-content/uploads/...ada-Issues.pdf

So it's a state by state thing, not actually clear...
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Old 2013-10-20, 17:39   Link #25
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3 days later, can I rule out a ''controlled delivery'' ?
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Old 2013-10-20, 17:53   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronNoir View Post
3 days later, can I rule out a ''controlled delivery'' ?
I would give it a week or two, but to be honest with you...I seen people getting caught a month after their order. Of course, this was drug shipments right after the Silk Road bust, so that might have something to do with it.
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Last edited by speedyexpress48; 2013-10-20 at 18:04.
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Old 2013-10-20, 18:06   Link #27
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I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but the only time I've ever heard of a controlled delivery type scenario being used for lolicon stuff in Canada, it sounded like it was for explicit lolicon porn and not just for an artbook that might be a bit sketchy in spots.
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Old 2013-10-20, 18:08   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyexpress48 View Post
I would give it a week or two, but to be honest with you...I seen people getting caught a month after their order. Of course, this was drug shipments right after the Silk Road bust, so that might have something to do with it.
Seriously, you're freaking him out over nothing (and he was already paranoid in the first place to create this thread). There is nothing illegal or obscene over a To-Love Ru artbook of all things. This is not illegal and it's not anywhere near the severity of a controlled or banned substance. The police are not going to come knocking on his door for something tame and innocuous like this. Like I said, people import actual eroge and hentai all the time in Canada. It's okay.

BaronNoir: Canada is not that crazy and extreme about this. You can sleep easily.

Edit: Apparently another thread was created that links to actual legal briefs on the subject, if you want to read more. It doesn't really affect my opinion above, though; this artbook would not qualify under the wording of the law, and it's not that ambiguous that someone could mistakenly think it does.
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Old 2013-10-21, 13:10   Link #29
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I think that's a bit too harsh, even if it's really cautious. As I've stated before, this topic goes beyond TLR in particular, because I believe the OP and many people around here would like to import more stuff in the future.

It's best to send a message, of "You're mostly safe but here is the worst case scenario", and with that kind of measurement should create more comfort in the long run and expectations in the future, as well as a more informed decision.

In the end, despite it not being used that much, it's definitely a law citizens should try contesting, and I would feel the same towards similar laws in my area as well. There's a lot more at stake here which affects many on this site.

It's not about fear. It's about how to approach and work around a broken law while building awareness. And considering all the bias and ignorance on many countries this side of the world towards a medium that we all share, it makes sense that Speedyexpress is looking up on all corners. We may all disagree on whether certain anime is good or not, but most of us would certainly balk at whatever loaded labels given by people in power and "Special Intrest" groups who have most likely never ever seen the material they condemn.

Of course, the attitudes are much worse down here in the south, but yea....
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Old 2013-10-21, 19:15   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I think that's a bit too harsh, even if it's really cautious. As I've stated before, this topic goes beyond TLR in particular, because I believe the OP and many people around here would like to import more stuff in the future.

It's best to send a message, of "You're mostly safe but here is the worst case scenario", and with that kind of measurement should create more comfort in the long run and expectations in the future, as well as a more informed decision.

In the end, despite it not being used that much, it's definitely a law citizens should try contesting, and I would feel the same towards similar laws in my area as well. There's a lot more at stake here which affects many on this site.

It's not about fear. It's about how to approach and work around a broken law while building awareness. And considering all the bias and ignorance on many countries this side of the world towards a medium that we all share, it makes sense that Speedyexpress is looking up on all corners. We may all disagree on whether certain anime is good or not, but most of us would certainly balk at whatever loaded labels given by people in power and "Special Intrest" groups who have most likely never ever seen the material they condemn.

Of course, the attitudes are much worse down here in the south, but yea....
Lol. Well, I guess it's true that I been a bit paranoid lately, mostly due to the fact that I sold bitcoin anonymously...and you know where that usually leads to. I'm not afraid of much of anything right now, but I have friends and random people I sorta know that are becoming super paranoid and that spreads, especially here in Colorado where every outgoing package is probably inspected for marijuana. Also, like 0utf0xzer0 said, it has been done before, and even if Baron's artbook is legal material, it might be nice to warn other people about stuff like this because it has happened before.

Still, it's not something I would be super paranoid about, though I would keep it in mind. You're right, this isn't heroin, and it probably is acceptable under the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Of course, the attitudes are much worse down here in the south, but yea....
Well, there's night and day difference between California and the great plains. Which is what sucks about "American obscenity standards"...aka "what's legal in CA might not be legal anywhere else." Keep in mind, American (Californian) companies produce "lolicon"-like material all the time, and a lot of comic book obscenity cases involve such items when offloaded to another state. :P

Also, I wouldn't say attitudes are better up North; a fun fact-Canada banned more books than the Soviet Union during the Cold War. It's more of a rural vs urban thing, and America is a lot more socially liberal than people realize....
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Old 2013-10-21, 19:40   Link #31
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I think you're okay as long as you don't have anything suspicious in there. Like obvious child porn.

I doubt Canada is like Russia, which straight out looks at anything anime as kiddie porn...
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Old 2013-10-21, 23:35   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It's best to send a message, of "You're mostly safe but here is the worst case scenario", and with that kind of measurement should create more comfort in the long run and expectations in the future, as well as a more informed decision.
I do think this sort of message is fine; people should be aware of the law and possible consequences. But you also have to be clear on whether there's any reasonable expectation that "the worst case scenario" could apply in this case. Otherwise you're promoting the "chilling effect" of the vaguely-written law by making people scared of importing even mild, completely legal anime-related material out of paranoid fear that someone could go to an extreme the likes of which has never been seen in practice (and actually runs counter to the level of material legally sold in the country). I don't want this poor poster to remain fearful for "a month" that any day now the police could barge down his door because he imported one slightly-saucy artbook. In a country where many eroge, hentai anime, and adult manga can be legally sold, that's an unreasonable degree of paranoia in my opinion.

I think the key is balance. Be smart and informed, understand the risks if you try going out of bounds, but continue to make reasonable decisions consistent with the law and established precedent.

I think most would agree in principle that the law is poorly-written and should be revised, but it's unlikely that you'll find politicians who want to risk messing with it for fear of how it may be spun against them by the opposition, and could hurt their and their party's chances in the next election.
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Old 2013-10-22, 09:31   Link #33
BaronNoir
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[mod edit: link removed]

if you want to see the merits of the book (its most of the illustrations)

That don't right as obscene, right ?

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-10-22 at 19:02. Reason: link removed...
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Old 2013-10-22, 19:04   Link #34
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I removed the link because linking to high-res scans of artbooks aren't allowed... (here's the Amazon Link) but no. Heck, one of the big complaints about that particular artbook from Japanese fans on Amazon.co.jp was that it had practically no nudity, which is one of the franchise's defining traits. Of all the To-Love Ru artbooks to import, you picked the most safe and tame. It's beyond fine.

(From the third highlighted review:
何と乳首解禁のイラストは一枚も無し。
乳首解禁でなくてもToLOVEる特有のエロスなイラストがあればまだ良かったんですがそれも 無し。

But, there wasn't even one illustration with uncensored breasts.
That might have been fine if there were some of To-Love Ru's characteristic erotic illustrations, but there weren't any of those either!


)
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Old 2013-10-22, 19:11   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I removed the link because linking to high-res scans of artbooks aren't allowed... (here's the Amazon Link) but no. Heck, one of the big complaints about that particular artbook from Japanese fans on Amazon.co.jp was that it had practically no nudity, which is one of the franchise's defining traits. Of all the To-Love Ru artbooks to import, you picked the most safe and tame. It's beyond fine.

(From the third review:
何と乳首解禁のイラストは一枚も無し。
乳首解禁でなくてもToLOVEる特有のエロスなイラストがあればまだ良かったんですがそれも 無し。

But, there wasn't even one illustration with uncensored breasts.
That might have been fine if there were some of To-Love Ru's characteristic erotic illustrations, but there weren't any of those either!


)
...I Concur.
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Old 2013-10-22, 19:19   Link #36
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Quote:
But, there wasn't even one illustration with uncensored breasts.
What? How can you have TLR without that?

I did note the images though; it should be illegal to think of prohibiting cute things like that though. xD
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Old 2013-10-22, 19:21   Link #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
What? How can you have TLR without that?
The artbook was named "Juicy", but perhaps they meant to say "Tasteful".
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Old 2013-10-22, 19:21   Link #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
What? How can you have TLR without that?

I did note the images though; it should be illegal to think of prohibiting cute things like that though. xD
BUT THE KIDS! THE KIDS! THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Yeah man, you're fine. I had a totally different image in my mind when you said "TLR artbook."
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Old 2013-10-22, 19:25   Link #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
The artbook was named "Juicy", but perhaps they meant to say "Tasteful".
You can still be tasteful and still... ah, never mind.

It's still juicy anyways. Ok, I'll stop.

Quote:
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BUT THE KIDS! THE KIDS! THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Yeah man, you're fine. I had a totally different image in my mind when you said "TRU artbook."
Uh oh, should I even ask about TRU? What's that lol.

It's kinda sad that violence is okay to show to people, but god forbid a body part be shown. >.> I think the children have much more to worry about, really.
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Old 2013-10-22, 19:27   Link #40
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Well, on the plus side, now that I removed (by trash bag) 4 artbook, around 30 manga books with fanservice (Oreimo, Freezing, Tsukaima, Rosario Vampire and of course Love Ru normal and a couple of Darkness ones-those ones desserved trashing, TBH-, stuff like that) , 8-9 Blu-ray, X-360, PS3 games with somewhat risqué cover (Highschool DXD English, DOA 5, Hyperdimension Neptuna US...), 15 western fantasy or sf books with dubious covers, some hardcover comics (actually, finding comics with females characters and presentable covers is remarkably hard...) and 2 figurines (a Momo Deviluke by Alter and a Total Eclipse Cryska by Koto), deleted all my anime and downloaded series (mostly Gordon Ramsay shows. Yes, I'm ashamed) and scrubbed my hard drive 5 times....

I can invite a girl at my place ! (well, it's a possibility...)

Yes. I have a tendancy to panic under pressure.
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