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Old 2013-11-10, 20:04   Link #21
asaqe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
The sudden popularity (or oversaturation as critics and naysayers would like to say) of the *48 families somehow kickstarted the idol boom, forcing all other idols, be it old groups (i.e. Morning Musume, et. al.) and new alike, whether traditional or avant-garde, or even boybands (i.e. SMAP), to come and try to challenge the *48 domination.

At the moment the boom, despite being confined domestically, is still much at its apex, it's never constant, which means the producers and management have to keep coming up with new ideas.

There will be the case of "no export" because the Japanese record companies feel that there will be a small audience outside Japan who care to buy their singles, apparently drawing lessons from the debacle in the attempt to export Pink Lady to an uninformed American audience, and of course the language and cultural barrier.

---------------
I'm not surprised that there are those self-proclaimed expert/writers who are actually k-pop shills or outright Japanophile elitists.

Also, I find SNSD's extremely high vote count rather disturbing than genuine.
You must mean Japanophobe because I haven't been seeing much love for Japanese Culture over here lately.
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Old 2013-11-11, 00:00   Link #22
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Fixed. Yeah, anything but ACG -- animation, comics and games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Well, since it's all about pop music, I guess that k-pop probably sounds more catchy than j-pop. The marketing is also incredible from Korea's big 3 as opposed to Japanese companies.
Yes, and they are very aggressive, looking towards further expansion, and will try to maintain their competitive edge, more than the domestically-focused Japanese record labels.
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Old 2013-11-12, 22:45   Link #23
asaqe
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Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Having contacts with Japanese industry folks doesn't mean his analysis of the industry is not off - that's an "appealing to authority" logical fallacy. I could also throw around my own "credentials" - I actually have several business contacts with the big anime record labels including the likes of Misshi (Mishima Akio of King Records) and Pony Canyon and Lantis as well, but that alone doesn't make me an expert either - it's all about the evidence, and Answerman's record and view of the industry is not exactly stellar when he is using the wrong evidence to prove his point. Disregarding that and just focusing on this topic - is my critic of him using iTunes as a measuring stick of how the Japanese shunts internet/mp3 wrong when I have shown with plenty of evidence that it is certainly not the case and that his view is narrow sighted? Head over to Listen Japan and see for yourself - their offerings are up to date anime songs which are DRM free - even if these songs are not available on iTunes. The evidence shows that he is wrong, simple as that.
That's the problem, if they are not internationally available they are seen as backwards and xenophobic and despise the foreign markets. Meanwhile kpop is doing the equivalent of price dumping on the digital front music wise, promoting KPOP through digital sales and actively promoting the digital market while having the loyal Japanese market back them up physical sales wise. The only that they could do next is a potential "slander" campaign by mocking the JPOP genre sorta like how pop punk managed to take off by picking on the Boy Band Genre.
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Last edited by asaqe; 2013-11-13 at 00:36.
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Old 2013-11-14, 01:08   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
That's the problem, if they are not internationally available they are seen as backwards and xenophobic and despise the foreign markets.
I think.....the music industries of say...90% of the world would have something to protest about that. Especially when it's not "internationally available" but "widely, readily, wherever you look internationally available" <__<

Seriously, what fits that bill other than Korean and American...
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Old 2013-11-25, 12:06   Link #25
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http://www.allkpop.com/article/2013/...#axzz2lJzQmb3z

I don't know if the commentators are using hyperbole or not, but two years in a row kind of feels disturbing since people are talking how completely xenophobic Japan is.
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Old 2013-12-08, 23:56   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
http://www.allkpop.com/article/2013/...#axzz2lJzQmb3z

I don't know if the commentators are using hyperbole or not, but two years in a row kind of feels disturbing since people are talking how completely xenophobic Japan is.
Please take whatever allkpop is saying with a pinch of salt, given that of late the site's owner is getting into hot water, and that k-pop fanatics are very defensive. What to worry about is when some Korean artists start to compare themselves as being superior over the Japanese.

OBTW, in the light of this year's NHK Kouhaku, I'll never know how or why Koreans are no longer included in the yearly event, or what came into the minds of its organizers, but relations between the two countries aren't into easy terms now due to past recriminations and ultranationalists on both sides are barging in loudly.
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Old 2013-12-09, 11:09   Link #27
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Sorry but things goes both ways - while Japan is indeed a very closed off country in many ways, it's not like Korean is completely innocent either and some Korean stars have made some statements which could be considered anti-Japanese before, especially concerning the current territorial disputes and WW2 history like comfort women etc. As the tension in the region escalates very quickly I think it is actually understandable that NHK wants to play safe (in a very typical Japanese way) and not try to touch or defuse a potential minefield of inviting Korean artists just to risk getting some nationalistic right wingers (which has huge political influence in Japan) on their back. Also as NHK is partially state-sponsored, you can also understand the political implication of having some Koreans on the show too. Really I would say it's not so much about the Jpop industry being scared of the Kpop industry but rather that some real politics is involved.
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Old 2013-12-09, 11:18   Link #28
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Since when does a pro K-pop article not distort facts out of context?
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Old 2013-12-09, 21:18   Link #29
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Last I heard number one music industry profitwise is the US followed by Japan despite the significant population difference. And korea was 18th place ( population difference is a big factor) hence a couple years back many many kpop groups try to make it in japan and there's still some trying

Just checked now. It looks the same
http://www.billboard.com/biz/article...irection=false
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Old 2013-12-09, 22:20   Link #30
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in response to the claim that Japanese media giants don't embrace iTunes:

As someone who is hopefully more informed than Answerman (I create lots of database entries for anime music), I believe it's extremely rare for modern anime music to not make it to iTunes.

Taking a guess about "Chris"'s supposed iTunes experience (assuming he is talking about iTunes JAPAN and not iTunes USA), he's trying to find things that are time-exclusive to physical products. e.g. Pony Canyon often delays iTunes releases 1 week after CD. And even Aniplex has "embraced" digital music by often releasing DVD/BD enclosure music weeks after the DVD/BD release. (And keep in mind that enclosed music is usually a bonus intended to sell more DVD/BD sets. It was never about increasing music sales.)

Sometimes releases will be found on Japanese stores like Mora or Recochoku with iTunes missing out, but there are actually iTunes-exclusive releases, especially in the case of Victor Entertainment / FlyingDog, e.g.
- Valvrave's insert song https://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/id679522713
- the character song album for this season's Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio -Ars Nova- https://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/id748127767

So in summary,
Quote:
Smaller Japanese music publishers publishers, however, have embraced new technology and have started selling their music online, on iTunes and other places. But those publishers are trying to promote their artists, and not the anime or game tie-ins that are used for promotion in Japan. As such, they're not really catering their offerings to Western otaku, and anime songs are incredibly hard to find.
the bolded is complete crap.

The landscape of the industry has actually changed a lot since 2012 (e.g. Universal swallowed EMI), but as far as anime goes, at least some edition of a physical product is usually available digitally from the top 10 record companies (which doesn't even include Lantis, which probably releases more music than many of the companies in that list).

Google is also very helpful

Last edited by yindesu; 2013-12-09 at 22:37.
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Old 2013-12-10, 12:38   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
JPOP: Decline and the silence of the fans.
- because the likes of Miku Hatsune and co. are consuming everything and destroying the J-POP Industry for anyone or anything but themselves!!!!

don't you all understand!?! the VOCALOIDs, they are COMING!!
they can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with... AND THEY ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP!!!!
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Old 2013-12-10, 14:38   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasuke Shichiri View Post
- because the likes of Miku Hatsune and co. are consuming everything and destroying the J-POP Industry for anyone or anything but themselves!!!!

don't you all understand!?! the VOCALOIDs, they are COMING!!
they can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with... AND THEY ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP!!!!
Are you sure you should be sharing that with us? Isn't it classified information?
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Old 2013-12-10, 16:35   Link #33
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I think the biggest sin the Japanese music industries ever commit is they are too depended on anime industries, only hoping anime will promote their music and music will promote their anime(like K-On!). South Korean music industries don't have anime or its equivalent and succeed without it and gaining more attention to non-Asian fans than Japanese ones.

Where's the likes of Ayumi Hamasaki and Hikaru Utada who both dominated the industries in late 1990's and early 2000's? I haven't heard them for years.
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Old 2013-12-11, 08:48   Link #34
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Jpop has always been 'exclusive'.

Btw, kpop also has it's own music streaming websites from it's major search engine as well.
The reason kpop is so dominating right now is because it has members from china and other countries. EXO is a popular idol male group that has 8 korean members and 4chinese members.
Miss A has 4members and half of them are from china.f(x) has 5 members and 2/5 members are chinese.
You don't see all that in jpop.
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Old 2013-12-11, 11:18   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyce_Steele View Post
I think the biggest sin the Japanese music industries ever commit is they are too depended on anime industries, only hoping anime will promote their music and music will promote their anime(like K-On!). South Korean music industries don't have anime or its equivalent and succeed without it and gaining more attention to non-Asian fans than Japanese ones.

Where's the likes of Ayumi Hamasaki and Hikaru Utada who both dominated the industries in late 1990's and early 2000's? I haven't heard them for years.
That is simply not true. The problem with the last few years is that normal Jpop outside of the few established artists are selling so bad, while the otaku music (not only anime but idol groups - both male and female) which bundles in extra goodies has their sales number propped up by the otakus so it looks like the anime/otaku music are dominating and ripping up the weekly charts, but if you really look at the numbers the CD sales are disappointingly small - you are talking 20-30k which could rank first on the Oricon sales chart. The publishers aren't actively trying to make more anime music - the output is more or less the same and overwhelming over-shadowed by mainstream Jpop, however the sales of mainstream music is so bad that it looks like they are more of the anime music showing up on the charts more.

The main problem is that the labels don't really want to actively engage in the promotion of their music as that would involve setting up branches in the countries they want to target, but instead just wants to sit back and get the money through licensing deals. The other reason is there just aren't enough adventurously minded individuals whom wants to take the initiative in breaking out - the are just waiting for the other countries to come to them, or they are simply content in trying to conquer the domestic market. Again Kpop artists trips over themselves for any chance to sell overseas, but this is not the case for Jpop artists, they don't seem to be willing to take a lost lead strategy (such as taking little to no pay for their appearance, whereas Kpop artists reportedly does so) at all. However on the other hand for licensing as I've mentioned before the main issue is that Japan is caught in an economically awkward position with which is reflected in the price they can command, but again the countries most interested in licensing the music are other Asian countries where piracy is rampant and the price of official CDs are just a few US dollars and individuals having very little incentives or the ethical mindset for purchasing official CDs (places like Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, Malyasia, Vietnam etc), making the endeavor of licensing Jpop - which usually involves huge upfront licensing fees - pretty much a business proposition which has next to no chance of making back the returns. Whereas Western countries where music is still a somewhat sustainable business has their own pickings to choose from and aren't interested in licensing foreign music, let alone music which seems to be heavily influenced by Western music itself which passes off as not much more than cheap imitations.

EDIT: in the CD album sales ranking for 2013, the top 50 does not have any anime CDs except for one by Mizuki Nana at 41, but arguably Mizuki Nana is more of a Jpop artist than a pure anime song singer anyway. Likewise for the singles ranking except for the Valvrave OP by TM Revolution and Mizuki Nana there are also no anime songs on the list. So much for the publishers using anime to sell their music.
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Last edited by houkoholic; 2013-12-11 at 12:22.
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Old 2013-12-11, 11:28   Link #36
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyce_Steele View Post
I think the biggest sin the Japanese music industries ever commit is they are too depended on anime industries, only hoping anime will promote their music and music will promote their anime(like K-On!). South Korean music industries don't have anime or its equivalent and succeed without it and gaining more attention to non-Asian fans than Japanese ones.

Where's the likes of Ayumi Hamasaki and Hikaru Utada who both dominated the industries in late 1990's and early 2000's? I haven't heard them for years.
And yet the bulk of music coming out isn't anime related...
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Old 2013-12-13, 00:30   Link #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
EDIT: in the CD album sales ranking for 2013, the top 50 does not have any anime CDs except for one by Mizuki Nana at 41, but arguably Mizuki Nana is more of a Jpop artist than a pure anime song singer anyway. Likewise for the singles ranking except for the Valvrave OP by TM Revolution and Mizuki Nana there are also no anime songs on the list. So much for the publishers using anime to sell their music.
Just for the record, you missed some stuff:
Albums:
- Vocaloid at #43
Singles:
- Attack on Titan at #30
- Naruto as a B-side at #14 if you want to stretch logic very thin

Besides Nana Mizuki that's all I caught on a quick scan.
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Old 2013-12-13, 11:47   Link #38
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Originally Posted by yindesu View Post
Just for the record, you missed some stuff:
Yep my bad for missing some of the anime-related stuff, but just a couple more out of the top 50 hardly changes the fact that non-anime related music is still the dominate music being produced in Japan, also my defense for these titles are below:

Quote:
Albums:
- Vocaloid at #43
I wouldn't count Vocaloid as "using anime to sell music". Vocaloid is pretty much its own little circle, or if you really want to put it in a pre-defined box it would be closer to indies music where it does its own things.

Quote:
Singles:
- Attack on Titan at #30
Good catch, my miss. However my defense is that Titan was this year's surprise hit which nobody expected it to reach its current heights, so I don't think they intended it as a vehicle to sell music, especially since they used Linked Horizon (aka Sound Horizon) which is already a well known, established and popular anime music group driving a manga series which only took off big time after the anime went on air. I would even go out on a limb to say it's probably using the music to draw new viewers to the show, and indeed I think Titan had a sudden influx of female (read: fujoshi) fans which suddenly discovered all the possible yaoi pairings for doujin work due to the Sound Horizon link causing them to give the series a chance in the first place.

Quote:
- Naruto as a B-side at #14 if you want to stretch logic very thin
If it's a B-side then it is not the title song and thus yes, you have to be stretching the logic. At most you could say it's a mutually beneficial relationship here, not one where it is using the anime to drive sales of the music.
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Old 2013-12-13, 15:56   Link #39
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I do not really understand the underlying problem to this topic.
The pop in J-Pop stands for popular, then I'll assume j-pop stands for 'popular in japan'?
Apparently this still holds true.

You even mentioned that Japan seems to be less affected by the general decline the music business is facing all over the world. While CD sales are flatlining everywhere else, Japan still has CD stores? Isn't that good for J-Pop then?
Then what is so threatening about this situation?

The general idea seems to be, that J-Pop should expand and conquer foreign markets.
But really, which other pop scene does this, as an industry?
Only the U.S.
It is really only the U.S. pop scene which is so dominant in other countries. Then there are other native english speaking countries who can spawn acts which seem to be compatible and can piggyback on the U.S.'s influence (even though the UK was a much bigger player in this game before).

Then that leaves only a very few artists from other countries, which are successful on an international level, but that is more thanks to the efforts of those artists than due to any coordinated industry effort. Still, national music scenes do exist and thrive everywhere. And will continue to.

So where does this idea come from, that japanese pop music absolutely HAS to go international?
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Old 2013-12-13, 20:41   Link #40
asaqe
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Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
I do not really understand the underlying problem to this topic.
The pop in J-Pop stands for popular, then I'll assume j-pop stands for 'popular in japan'?
Apparently this still holds true.

You even mentioned that Japan seems to be less affected by the general decline the music business is facing all over the world. While CD sales are flatlining everywhere else, Japan still has CD stores? Isn't that good for J-Pop then?
Then what is so threatening about this situation?

The general idea seems to be, that J-Pop should expand and conquer foreign markets.
But really, which other pop scene does this, as an industry?
Only the U.S.
It is really only the U.S. pop scene which is so dominant in other countries. Then there are other native english speaking countries who can spawn acts which seem to be compatible and can piggyback on the U.S.'s influence (even though the UK was a much bigger player in this game before).

Then that leaves only a very few artists from other countries, which are successful on an international level, but that is more thanks to the efforts of those artists than due to any coordinated industry effort. Still, national music scenes do exist and thrive everywhere. And will continue to.

So where does this idea come from, that japanese pop music absolutely HAS to go international?
Thank mdo3 for that idea.

It is mostly because of their foreign rival South Korea who have cozied up with USA culturally or in SM case made JPOP fit for American taste by making a girl group with the idol purity without being seen as creepy. Hell right people have more respect for mando/hk pop than jpop.

The fact anime raves would Play kpop is proof of jpop's decline.
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