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Old 2014-01-08, 09:22   Link #241
MeisterBabylon
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1. Guns are Ranged Weapons and therefore, even with Over Skill, can only be used by certain classes. So far, only Assassins and Swashbucklers have ranged weapon proficiencies.

2. Guns are complex devices requiring lots of moving parts. A Mechanic is the closest equivalent of subclass to build one and would require very high levels. You could say a lv 90 mechanic is a Gunsmith.

3. However, Guns are ingame items and therefore follow level requirements. A Lv 1 assassin cannot hope to wield a Lv 90 gun. And Lv 90 guns will not one-shot mobs, just like swords do not one-shot anything.
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Old 2014-01-08, 09:25   Link #242
agetreme
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Delusion world
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
1. Guns are Ranged Weapons and therefore, even with Over Skill, can only be used by certain classes. So far, only Assassins and Swashbucklers have ranged weapon proficiencies.

2. Guns are complex devices requiring lots of moving parts. A Mechanic is the closest equivalent of subclass to build one and would require very high levels. You could say a lv 90 mechanic is a Gunsmith.

3. However, Guns are ingame items and therefore follow level requirements. A Lv 1 assassin cannot hope to wield a Lv 90 gun. And Lv 90 guns will not one-shot mobs, just like swords do not one-shot anything.
Level requirement may be ranged from 90 to 100+

How about making Gunner a Sub-class rather than main class? You can't change your main class but you can change your subclass.
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Old 2014-01-08, 09:55   Link #243
Sheba
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Old 2014-01-08, 10:57   Link #244
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agetreme View Post
Level requirement may be ranged from 90 to 100+

How about making Gunner a Sub-class rather than main class? You can't change your main class but you can change your subclass.
Come to think of it, isn't a Gunner already a subclass?
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Old 2014-01-08, 14:06   Link #245
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelos View Post
In the novel Shiro used a blade to behead someone, but enchanter doesn't
have physical skills to use that or should. Guns would be similar, imagine
Nao-bro carry a shotgun for range skills when he doesn't really need too
Enchanters can equip short swords, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Firearms are very efficient... too efficient, in fact.
Shoot a mob in the head and it's dead meat. Give it to a Level 1 adventurer and tell him to press the trigger — boom! Mobs are small time.
You're applying our world's physics to the world of Elder Tale when you assume a headshot would insta-kill a mob.

Ever played Borderlands? It's a co-op online shooter using lots of RPG mechanics, the closest comparison we'll get. And unless your headshot will do enough damage to bring its HP to zero, no creature in that game will die from just one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Come to think of it, isn't a Gunner already a subclass?
Not as far as I've seen, no.
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Old 2014-01-08, 23:53   Link #246
agetreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Come to think of it, isn't a Gunner already a subclass?
How do you get A Gunner Sub-class when guns haven't even been implanted yet?
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Old 2014-01-09, 00:24   Link #247
Marcus H.
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You're applying our world's physics to the world of Elder Tale when you assume a headshot would insta-kill a mob.
Spoiler for LNs/Manga Content:
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Old 2014-01-09, 00:31   Link #248
LystAP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agetreme View Post
Not exactly, the production cost would be high (modern guns has lots of moving part and early firearms aren't very reliable)


Not only that Bullet would cost money... probably a lot more than modern ammunition since there is no factory (yet) to mass produce rounds.

Even if they successfully make one: will it deal enough damage to take down monsters?

Have you play MMORPG with guns in it? You probably need lots of rounds to take down a mob and a single round is not cheap (refer to above again).
WoW and a few other MMOs solved that problem by making guns basically compatible with bow weapons in damage output. When you have enchanted arrows and magic, bows would still have an advantage over any modern weapons. Even if the guns were magical, game mechanics would still even it out; and Adventurer with the necessary Bow skill would still out damage someone with a lower Gun skill.

And in regards to whether or not it is appropriate setting-wise; it typically would not be, if not for the fact that Elder Tales is a global-spanning game. We're not stuck on one area or continent, there are plenty of opportunities for alternative weapon technology to develop elsewhere. During the time period most high fantasy is based on, gunpowder technology had already developed in the Far East, especially China (although the focus was more on rockets, than cannons). If guns didn't exist, they will eventually through Overskill, especially here in the gun-crazed United States.
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Old 2014-01-09, 04:08   Link #249
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Spoiler for LNs/Manga Content:
Slit his throat I believe. But remember that he was a clothie who can't take much damage in the first place and who was already on how health after getting stabbed in the back by the high-DPS assassin.
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Old 2014-01-09, 09:12   Link #250
agetreme
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Delusion world
Name: Seigefried
Class: Guardian Cleric
Title: Midas' Hand Kingpin (Obtain when max out Gold limit)
Overskill: Everything has a price (Bribe ability)

A player who had been playing the game ever since it started. Somehow manage to accumulated a huge amount of gold (by providing Raid service). Created a Guild just to store his gold.

A nice person with a dark side that is willing to use underhand methods to get result. Due to his influence in seven strongest guilds in the region, he runs area under his control like a mob-boss, willing to drown/kill any players who refuse to follow his rule... (repeatedly).

He is the one who give false hope that if somebody can clear the Twin Tower Dungeon, they can return to the real world. The sad truth is that he bought the Twin Tower dungeon and he can always spawn a boss into the tower whenever he wanted, making it impossible to clear the Twin Tower dungeon.

Always surrounded by girls due to his good look.

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Last edited by agetreme; 2014-01-10 at 10:05. Reason: Making him more balance.
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Old 2014-01-09, 20:12   Link #251
Sheba
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Your character don't sit well with me.
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I feel someone have to tell you that.
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Old 2014-01-09, 20:19   Link #252
Keroko
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I have to agree with Sheba here. Just buying the guild hall was a move that force Shiroe to gather the combined finances of the three top merchant guilds. I find it highly unlikely that someone who earned his finances through raiding would have that amount of capital.

But while on the subject, it's good to remember that buildings also have upkeep costs. Buying a building does not mean you are done spending money on it.
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Old 2014-01-09, 20:24   Link #253
agetreme
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Damn...forgot about that part, need to modify stuff again. (-_-|||)

I think I will just switch him to having powerful guilds and Boss monsters on his sides.
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Old 2014-01-09, 20:27   Link #254
Keroko
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Can you even do that? Buying a dungeon and having boss monsters on your side?
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Old 2014-01-09, 20:29   Link #255
Sheba
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To add to Keroko's post:
If grinding and raiding are microeconomics, playing the market like in Eve Online and how Shiroe did it with Henrietta is few tiers above.
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Old 2014-01-09, 20:31   Link #256
Estavali
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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On your Overskill, I feel that you could have just set it as a normal skill for a normal subclass like Diplomat, Smuggler, Mafioso/Yakuza/Gangster, etc. The types that would use bribes and the sort to get things working their way. Not only that, even bribery requires a certain level of negotiation, which would also be something the examples I mentioned would be good at, with varying aptitude of course.

Also, on buying Boss Monsters over.... Can you even communicate with them in the first place?
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Old 2014-01-09, 20:34   Link #257
agetreme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Can you even do that? Buying a dungeon and having boss monsters on your side?
Every buildings in town can be bought and since the dungeon is in the town....

As for the boss monsters, they are actually from the Dungeon....

Edit: As for communication.... Defeat + Bribe = Friendship?

The whole idea is the Sea-Log Guild burned their bridge by pissing off the wrong person (Easier than pissing off an Army of PK-ers).

They could not go back anymore and they can only move forward.
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Last edited by agetreme; 2014-01-09 at 20:54.
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Old 2014-01-09, 20:55   Link #258
Estavali
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agetreme View Post
Every buildings in town can be bought and since the dungeon is in the town....

As for the boss monsters, they are actually from the Dungeon....
Viability aside, how much do you intend to set for the initial buying price as well as the regular maintenance fee that follows?

For reference, Akiba's Guild Centre was bought at five million gold. The city of Akiba itself iirc would need seven hundred million with a monthly maintenance fee of 1.2 million gold. If we use Akiba as an example, then the monthly maintenance fee might be around 17% of the initial buying price, though to be honest this percentage is just a guess =3

Quote:
Originally Posted by agetreme View Post
Edit: As for communication.... Defeat + Bribe = Friendship?

The whole idea is the Sea-Log Guild burned their bridge by pissing off the wrong person (Easier than pissing off an Army of PK-ers).

They could not go back anymore and they can only move forward.
Er, I'm stating the obvious but the Boss would be dead if you defeat it. And how do you intend to bribe them? Gold, they have and they don't seem to have a need for that anyway. Mutual help? Bah, out of my dungeon and stay out, would be the most possible reply imho, if they can talk in the first place.
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Old 2014-01-09, 21:08   Link #259
agetreme
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali View Post
Viability aside, how much do you intend to set for the initial buying price as well as the regular maintenance fee that follows?

For reference, Akiba's Guild Centre was bought at five million gold. The city of Akiba itself iirc would need seven hundred million with a monthly maintenance fee of 1.2 million gold. If we use Akiba as an example, then the monthly maintenance fee might be around 17% of the initial buying price, though to be honest this percentage is just a guess =3
People paid entrance fee to get into the Dungeon since it is their own hope of getting back home. (Albeit a made-up lie but people are desperate)

Quote:
Er, I'm stating the obvious but the Boss would be dead if you defeat it. And how do you intend to bribe them? Gold, they have and they don't seem to have a need for that anyway. Mutual help? Bah, out of my dungeon and stay out, would be the most possible reply imho, if they can talk in the first place.
They do aware that with him being the owner of the dungeon, he can always kick them out of it..... It like not paying rent for your apartment...

=

If all else fail, backup plan is: him having influence over powerful combat guilds.

Doesn't really matter much so long as I get the intended result. (Sea Log pissed him off and they can't return to that area)
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Old 2014-01-09, 21:15   Link #260
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agetreme View Post
They do aware that with him being the owner of the dungeon, he can always kick them out of it..... It like not paying rent for your apartment...
Raid bosses wouldn't mind getting kicked out and released into the town full of players. Funny thing about dungeons: Adventurers killing the monsters is usually what keeps them inside. If it weren't for Adventurers regularly culling the monsters, they'd be spreading to all corners of the world. The threat of being kicked out of their dungeon would be met with confused stares and an "Uhh... sure?

I really think going with influence over the local big combat guilds is the better way to go here.
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