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Old 2003-12-01, 04:00   Link #21
K_R
also known as K!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
"Back to work, slaves!", I say.
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Old 2003-12-01, 05:20   Link #22
Kasshin
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Let the translators decide what projects to sub.
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Old 2003-12-01, 08:02   Link #23
vspirit
...huh?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasshin
Let the translators decide what projects to sub.
if it's one of the trusted old-timers in the group, fine, but otherwise may not be a good idea...especially if the tl(s)
go(es) about it halfway (or worse, just one measly ep) and then pull a houdini on you...speakin' from personal experience here...
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Old 2003-12-01, 08:42   Link #24
Isako
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyangel
Look my friend... what are fansub groups for? And what are you fansubbing for?
Maybe asking you this question, you might not even understand them... so let me answer them for you. Fansub groups fansub anime to bring joy to all anime lovers, not for fame nor profit. You my friend, is fansubbing to get famous. What you simply want is to be able to show off infront of people that you are the founder of this and this group.

Btw, you run a fansub group and your translator pick the project and need to be approved by you after they picked it? Issit just me, or should it be the opposite lolz.
But then again, it's strange.. either way..

Oh ya, almost forgot... if you still think this is a market. Call me, I wanna buy you for the night if you don't mind.
You actually have me all wrong, Although I am the founder of the group I do other things then sit on my ass .I forgot to mention that I am also a timer/typesetter. I see nothing wrong leting the translators chosse what they want. its better then me or any other group member assigning them one. Since the translator is the person who can really get any group moving thats why I took the leniant approach to it.

Secondly I know this isn't a market, im just looking for people interested in helping. If I can't do that then whats the whole purpose of this thread?

So I reworded my last post to make more pleasing to your likeing...
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Old 2003-12-04, 02:30   Link #25
CompShrink
getting in comps' heads
 
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Translators are the most important part of the group, they make or break it... sadly mine chose to go awol and broke mine before the first release... if anyone wants to work on a new series that has not been subbed by anyone yet, let me know... compshrink@auniverse.net
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Old 2003-12-06, 03:25   Link #26
Mephisto03
セスラハニカ
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1|Iwata_kun
You actually have me all wrong, Although I am the founder of the group I do other things then sit on my ass .I forgot to mention that I am also a timer/typesetter. I see nothing wrong leting the translators chosse what they want. its better then me or any other group member assigning them one. Since the translator is the person who can really get any group moving thats why I took the leniant approach to it.

Secondly I know this isn't a market, im just looking for people interested in helping. If I can't do that then whats the whole purpose of this thread?

So I reworded my last post to make more pleasing to your likeing...
Actually this thread was made so I can find a translator but it became a wanted ad for translators for everyone

MY THREAD GOT JACKED! but its all good. We got a couple new translators anyways.

Now if I can find someone that wouldn't mind teaching me some encoding techniques for a dummie, that would be cool.
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Old 2003-12-06, 12:32   Link #27
getfresh
done
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompShrink
Translators are the most important part of the group, they make or break it...
I thought we had this discussion once... Anyone who thinks just having ah trans makes a group, your wrong. It takes every part of a fansub team to get the job done! In the groups I've been in as well as groups I've helped out when they need staff the least common problem is finding a trans. The hardest thing to find is an editor, or a typesetter who knows wtf they are doing. I run a group that does nothing but loan staff to groups. I offer everything except T/L because I don't have one nor do I care. 1/5 requests are for a T/Ler, the rest are for timers, typesetters, editors, karaokers, and a few have needed encoders.

You say anyone can do the other tasks, well the same goes for translating. All of the jobs in a fansub group are learned skills. I'll admit anyone can do any job in a fansub group, EVEN TRANS(unless they are def), but that doesn't mean it'll be done well. When you have people fansubbing who don't know what they are doing, or just aren't any good at it, it's like substituting the Special Olympics for the real ones. Yes they are still considered athletic competition, but itís just not the same.

I.E.


Now if you want to prove me wrong then show me a translator who does everything themselves and it doesn't look like ass. When I'm shown that I'll believe this BS that a trans is more important then anyone. Oh yes I know someone will say "But without a translator how will It get translated". Well I'll pose the same type of question to whoever thinks that. Without a timer how with the subtitles display, or without an editor how will we make since of the translation(T/L scripts come in engrish sometimes), or without an encoder how will the subs get on the video(Well you can softsub of course, but that leaves your script open for theft.)

I also think itís cool to let a trans decide if they want to trans something, but hell let everyone decide! I know I for one don't want to time something with voice actors that annoy the hell out of me. Fansubbing is a group effort, and will be forever because even if I know how to do everything I don't want to go though the hell of doing it myself. Also if the project never leaves your hands there will be mistakes because youíre too involved with it. You need someone with a fresh perspective to check it. I find errors all the time in translations when I'm timing and/or typesetting.

Lastly fansub groups have other resources for scripts beside a current trans, unless itís a brand new release. For example L-E has been using old scripts from groups that subbed those same series years ago, and I don't know if A-Keep is using them, but Magical Circle Guru Guru was trans'd long ago. Hell, I even have the scripts for epis 1-45, and I'm not even subbing it.

Most groups begging for T/L's right now are doing series that 5 other groups are doing. THATS WHY YOU CAN'T FIND A TRANS!! All the people who want to do that anime are already doing it, so pick an original project and stop trying so hard to get users in your channel.



Oh and if thereís any retarded fans or those offended by my example I apologize.
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Old 2003-12-06, 13:45   Link #28
dythim
dythim
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
For the group I work with at least, we are grateful for every single position being there. We know what each other is capable of, and how to interact with each other.

I think it might be true, however, that translators are one of the more critical points of a group. When there is no one around to do the translation, there really is no one to do the translation. There are help resources available for timing and typesetting and encoding (which would not make you a 'great' one per se, but still you could get it done respectably), as well as knowledgeable people floating around that could help.

But with translations, someone can't just pick up the language enough to fully understand an episode. Being able to hear the syllables is not even half of it, you have to know about the structure/grammar/colloqualisms/common sayings of the language as a whole or the translation is going to be off, way off. (Example: you can have the exact same words two different sentences, but depending on structure they may have completely different meanings)

I find that groups where one of the main motivators is a translator tend to be stronger. I won't name examples though... I don't like talking about other people (just a personal thing). It creates more reliability.
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Old 2003-12-06, 15:01   Link #29
getfresh
done
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 34
Yes true that you need to know how organize the structure correctly but the same goes for all jobs in fansubbing, and if just reading a FAQ or guide could do that we'd have a lot more HQ fansubs.

Also on the guides note, there are tons of guides online explaining Japanese sentence structure as well as conversion resources(no not scrabblefish)

This one in the link below allows searching by katakana, hiragana, kanji, romaji, and eng. It uses resources searching several dictionaries for either a word or if fragment part of a sentence. For sentence/phrases, it runs a search in its database looking for matching fragments till it narrows it down to the phrase in question. For more info go here

WWWJDIC

sentence structure

slang dictionary

WWWJDIC is extremely accurate and I have tested it a bit against kar T/L's for my group as well as others, to see if romaji matches kanji matches eng. It hasn't pulled up a wrong definition yet. Languages can be learned just like any other skill, and any timer who's be timing for over 6 months and has the skill for timing can properly find any word by romaji.

For Japanese there are a ton of resources explaining how, what, and why. If you ask me the fansub job that has the least help available is typesetting(The SFX side of it using textsub). All you get is commands, and said commands function. It doesn't explain much of anything. This leaves only finding a typesetter who has figured it out to teach you all the things they leave out of the INFO files, which is a lot. But that doesn't make a TSer more valuable then a QCer, or a distro member, etc...

All jobs are equal in responsibility. Without one the others lack part of the basic foundation and thus the group is not stable.
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Old 2003-12-06, 17:35   Link #30
AnimeFangirl
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The dog gossips too much.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what dythim is saying is that while someone might, with enough hard work and perseverance, become a reasonably good editor/timer/encoder within two or three months, it's hardly the same thing when it comes to languages. To become proficient enough to translate a 25 minute long anime: dialogue, signs, opening, ending; it's not something that you can just obtain by reading "a ton of resources explaining how, what, and why." No, really, it's not. No, no, seriously.

You talk about dictionaries, do you mean you're going to look up every single word they say in the anime in the dictionary? Assuming you even hear it correctly? Well, I'd like to hear from actual fansub translators on the subject, but if it was that easy to become an accomplished translator, I dare say we wouldn't NEED fansubs in the first place.

I'm not disagreeing with you that "All jobs are equal in responsibility. Without one the others lack part of the basic foundation and thus the group is not stable." However it goes without saying that some skills will always be easier to acquire than others.
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Old 2003-12-06, 18:12   Link #31
getfresh
done
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Age: 34
We could argue about this forever, but in the end it's just a waste of time. Only someone with exp and talent in all aspects can truely be a valid ref. All I know is that I have to test ppl for recruiting alot for an un named group, and you'd be suprised how many ppl with 3 months exp are still just winging it. And then you have ppl who just don't have the nack for it. It's, like I said, not something you can just read a book or a FAQ and be able to do. Translating, timing, editing, and typesetting are all art forms, cause everyone has a style they use. Encoding use to be very technical, but I don't know if its as hard as it use to be. I can't really comment though since I just started encoding again. A translator who can do a full episode is equal to someone who can time an epi in around 1-2hr encluding removing overlaps, overruns, making certain subs seemless, and all without errors. Same goes for the others. They aren't just able sqeeze by, instead they are able to masterfully do their job with ease and all the while producing something that is pleasent to watch.

My point I was making with the dictionary is that it's just like saying yeah you can just go read a FAQ, that was all. Sure with that I can do it, but it won't be very good, in depth or flow well with the episode. All in all this is just my opinion. I've said my peace, and now I'm done. Thanks for the discussion.

Peace
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Old 2003-12-07, 16:52   Link #32
CompShrink
getting in comps' heads
 
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I agree that experience is important in all fansub positions, and having any one position empty or with a sub-par person will bring down the group, yet learning an entire language takes a lot more time than learnign to time/typesett/encode/etc. You say everything needs time to be ploshed into truely skilled and artistic. This is true, BUT learning a language is more difficult and takes more time in the first place, and more time to polish.

For whatever reason, it seems to me and most people I talk with that a translator is much harder to find than any other possition. Whatever reason you want to explain it by, in the fansubbing world, they are the most rare.
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Old 2003-12-07, 17:45   Link #33
zalas
tsubasa o sagashite
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh
We could argue about this forever, but in the end it's just a waste of time. Only someone with exp and talent in all aspects can truely be a valid ref. All I know is that I have to test ppl for recruiting alot for an un named group, and you'd be suprised how many ppl with 3 months exp are still just winging it. And then you have ppl who just don't have the nack for it. It's, like I said, not something you can just read a book or a FAQ and be able to do. Translating, timing, editing, and typesetting are all art forms, cause everyone has a style they use. Encoding use to be very technical, but I don't know if its as hard as it use to be. I can't really comment though since I just started encoding again. A translator who can do a full episode is equal to someone who can time an epi in around 1-2hr encluding removing overlaps, overruns, making certain subs seemless, and all without errors. Same goes for the others. They aren't just able sqeeze by, instead they are able to masterfully do their job with ease and all the while producing something that is pleasent to watch.

My point I was making with the dictionary is that it's just like saying yeah you can just go read a FAQ, that was all. Sure with that I can do it, but it won't be very good, in depth or flow well with the episode. All in all this is just my opinion. I've said my peace, and now I'm done. Thanks for the discussion.

Peace
While it is true that all those are art forms, let me put it to you this way:
I'll give you two groups of people. One group of people is all the timers, typesetters, editors, encoders and QCers and the other "group" or people is one translator. You give each of them a raw. Who do you think has the higher chance of cranking out an episode if you give each of them 3 months?
And before you ask, I can do pretty much do almost everything involved in fansubbing (maybe not the best job of it, especially for encoding) except for translations, and I can wing translations if it's something simple and you give me some nice time with a dictionary.
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