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Old 2013-11-30, 12:37   Link #61
DJ*
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Maybe that's the point. Fighting eventually rendered pointless over time as everyone's stuck in an imaginary world of invincibilty.
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Old 2013-11-30, 15:05   Link #62
Ulquiorra
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Conceptually it could easily work if it wasn't badly written. Madara is the product of his environment, he's his own best example that shinobi are born and bred for war and just cannot help themselves even if they know it's wrong.
Ideally it should even be the seed for his failure, Madara may dream of peace but what he truly yearn for is battle. An illusion world under his command would inevitably fall into violence, chaos and strife.
Makes him sound like Kishi is setting him up to be another candidate for Naruto's endless Talk no Jutsu, doesn't it? Product of his environment who seeks a violent solution to the world's problems because he lost all hope in humanity. Rinse and repeat.

Madara thinks humanity was cursed after Kaguya ate the fruit. He is a lot more of a big picture thinker than Obito, whose angst was boiled down to a 13 year old girl not loving him. If anyone should recognize the vomit inducing awesomeness of Narutism, and how it totally disproves their belief system, it should be Madara. Humanity clearly is not cursed and has hope. Naruto, thanks to the author never giving him a real challenge, is making a reality of Hashirama's dream.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
And once the common enemy is gone, what happens? Alliances do not last indefinitely, especially if there is something to gain from breaking the alliance (or if feelings of disparity and inequality develop amongst the nations).
The way Kishi is writing this now, that will not happen. He has gone out of his way to bond the five Kages, the shinobi alliance, and setup Naruto as a uniting force. There will be friendships, marriages, and the breaking down of borders between the countries. There is no turning back.

Of course none of this would happen in the real world where politics, nationalism, and religion exist.
People would go right back to fighting over their differences. But the real world also doesn't have a stupid blond kid who everyone wants to be friends with. Oh to live in a fantasy world.
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Old 2013-11-30, 17:51   Link #63
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You are all forgetting.

Madara is a beast. Not only will he become the 10 tail Jin. He has the Rinnegon. And another thing I will explain later. The five kages were no match and neither was the army when he was first revived. He can keep edo hokages back with his susano clones. And he will focus on naruto and bee. If you read kishis interview he explains that there will be a new 8 tail Jin. Meaning madara will be it. Until he gets the rest of the tailed beast. Now the other ability I said madara has that changes the whole game now is obitos, since he took the body. Now all that has to happen is naruto or bee try to get close with physical attacks he phases in and out then uses the Rinnegon to extract the chakra out of them. The only way you could beat madara is with physical attacks. Now he has obitos powers meaning physical powers will no longer work. So he has to be sealed. Kishi also explained there going to tell about the fourths bloodline which naruto hasnt unlocked the power yet and with his moms sealing techniques he can stop madara.
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Old 2013-12-01, 00:31   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Truthbeyond View Post
Madara is a beast. Not only will he become the 10 tail Jin. He has the Rinnegon. And another thing I will explain later. The five kages were no match and neither was the army when he was first revived. He can keep edo hokages back with his susano clones. And he will focus on naruto and bee. If you read kishis interview he explains that there will be a new 8 tail Jin. Meaning madara will be it. Until he gets the rest of the tailed beast. Now the other ability I said madara has that changes the whole game now is obitos, since he took the body. Now all that has to happen is naruto or bee try to get close with physical attacks he phases in and out then uses the Rinnegon to extract the chakra out of them. The only way you could beat madara is with physical attacks. Now he has obitos powers meaning physical powers will no longer work. So he has to be sealed. Kishi also explained there going to tell about the fourths bloodline which naruto hasnt unlocked the power yet and with his moms sealing techniques he can stop madara.
This all sounds like fanfic bait to me. If Naruto has a bloodline, it's from being an Uzumaki, not because of the 4th.
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Old 2013-12-01, 02:14   Link #65
Ulquiorra
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Originally Posted by Truthbeyond View Post
Madara is a beast. Not only will he become the 10 tail Jin. He has the Rinnegon. And another thing I will explain later. The five kages were no match and neither was the army when he was first revived. He can keep edo hokages back with his susano clones. And he will focus on naruto and bee. If you read kishis interview he explains that there will be a new 8 tail Jin. Meaning madara will be it. Until he gets the rest of the tailed beast. Now the other ability I said madara has that changes the whole game now is obitos, since he took the body. Now all that has to happen is naruto or bee try to get close with physical attacks he phases in and out then uses the Rinnegon to extract the chakra out of them. The only way you could beat madara is with physical attacks. Now he has obitos powers meaning physical powers will no longer work. So he has to be sealed. Kishi also explained there going to tell about the fourths bloodline which naruto hasnt unlocked the power yet and with his moms sealing techniques he can stop madara.
Um, where is this Kishi interview?
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Old 2013-12-01, 11:30   Link #66
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maybe madara wanted his old body back (instead of a infinite chakra/immortal body) because a edo-tensei corpse cannot become a host for bijuu?
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Old 2013-12-01, 11:57   Link #67
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What I don't understand is why Madara's plan is still Tsuki no Me. The whole idea it was based on was that there could never be peace among the nations and that this was the only way to attain some form of peace. But look at the situation now. Ninja from every nation are fighting together, not under the banner of a village, but under the banner of Shinobi. Doesn't this prove that there can be peace? All it took was a common enemy, apparently.
Madara's peace is all the more ridiculous since, as I posted earlier, he's killed almost all the ninjas in the world. He might as well just finish the job rather than carrying out his convoluted Moon's Eye plan.

This war has so far consisted of one battle. In the first day of that battle alone (before the Zetsu transformations), 50% of the good guys were dead. That's staggeringly disastrous. It was a far better outcome that led ol' Phyrrhus to say "One more such victory over the Romans and we shall be utterly ruined." But given the casualties that happened beginning that first night, the war has been a complete catastrophe for the ninja world. With that many deaths, the ninja world as they know it will be gone - imagine that around 9 out of every 10 people have disappeared in your home town. Your culture would be gone. Even if they defeated Madara in the next chapter without anyone dying, "victory" in this war would be hollow and almost meaningless.

So either everyone is getting resurrected, Kishimoto will just pretend none of that happened, or Naruto actually gets a Bad End (spoilers: it won't.)

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maybe madara wanted his old body back (instead of a infinite chakra/immortal body) because a edo-tensei corpse cannot become a host for bijuu?
This is what many people had theorized before, I think, but Minato is the kyuubi's jinchuuriki without any apparent problems right now.
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Old 2013-12-01, 12:43   Link #68
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This is what many people had theorized before, I think, but Minato is the kyuubi's jinchuuriki without any apparent problems right now.
not only him, but all the edo-jinchurikis had bijous in them no problem. it does seem however, that kishi likes making the juubi different for no logical reason. i.e. the host doesn't die when it's extracted. which actually is counter-intuitive since i would imagine it would hurt the body much more to have the juubi extracted as opposed to just 1 bijou, but...
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Old 2013-12-01, 15:03   Link #69
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
not only him, but all the edo-jinchurikis had bijous in them no problem. it does seem however, that kishi likes making the juubi different for no logical reason. i.e. the host doesn't die when it's extracted. which actually is counter-intuitive since i would imagine it would hurt the body much more to have the juubi extracted as opposed to just 1 bijou, but...
Did we read a different chapter (or translation)? It is explained by the 9 tails to the 4th that the "gedo mazo" which is the body of the 10-tails that was sealed inside the moon remains in Obito and it has a huge life force. The 9 tailed beasts are only parts of the chakra part of the whole 10-tails.

Sure a lot of things are not logical, but these things never were in this manga, it's all magic
For example the 10-tails is all over the place now: it's apparently the source of ninja's chakra, it's in the new recreated "god tree", it's inside Edo-Minato as half of the kyuubi, it's inside Naruto and Bee, it's now the free 7 tailed beasts, it's inside Obito too, it was inside the Zetsu army too which means that we could say that's it's also inside Orochimaru and the 4 Edo-tensei hokages...

At last now we got to see what Sasuke can do when he goes to full power, there's Orochi to comment on that, saying how he saw that powerup coming the 1st time he met Sasuke in the forest of death
Then there's the Yin-Yang kyuubi thing for Naruto, i guess soon his father will give him the other half so Naruto will have another powerup.
I hope we see some epic action now that Obito's whining is out of the picture.
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Old 2013-12-01, 19:42   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Did we read a different chapter (or translation)? It is explained by the 9 tails to the 4th that the "gedo mazo" which is the body of the 10-tails that was sealed inside the moon remains in Obito and it has a huge life force. The 9 tailed beasts are only parts of the chakra part of the whole 10-tails.
i read that. i just think it's dumb, which is why i was making fun of it. it's just one of those random rules that kishi can break whenever he wants so it becomes completely idiotic.

jinchuuriki die when the bijou is extracted. gaara died so he brought him back with a random life transferal jutsu. kushina needed to stay alive longer for the story to unfold, meh she's an uzumaki, it's normal not to die right away. obito's sacrifice wasn't much since woudn't obito just die anyway? nope of course not, for another bs plot contrivance reason.

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I hope we see some epic action now that Obito's whining is out of the picture.
we've had a lot of epic action over the past few months. that hasn't really been the problem. the story and dialogue is what has sucked. since it's still going to be the same fight and same war i'm not expecting much
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Old 2013-12-02, 08:26   Link #71
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i read that. i just think it's dumb, which is why i was making fun of it. it's just one of those random rules that kishi can break whenever he wants so it becomes completely idiotic.
I think it was Ok considering how this kind of manga work. They set rules so later they can break them, if you read such kind of manga it should be natural. Of course i agree that sometimes its "idiotic", but as i explained this case seems to be Ok. It has a decent explanation, there were other cases where i complained it was either not explained at all or the explanation was bullshit, but this time i have no problems. Anything connected to the 10-tails and the legendary sage is above known laws anyways, that's the point of having ultimate beings, they are above the laws that are applied to common ninja. Take for example Obito's case where after he became the sage he could simply nullify any jutsu used by the any ordinary ninja.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
jinchuuriki die when the bijou is extracted.
That's true for ordinary ninja, and most of them were ordinary like Gaara.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
kushina needed to stay alive longer for the story to unfold, meh she's an uzumaki, it's normal not to die right away.
It did seem she will not die from the extraction. She just used up all her special chakra to contain the kyuubi. But that also had a nice explanation: Mito was transferred to the village for that reason in the first place, and so was Kushina. I don't see why that explanation is not enough for you.

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we've had a lot of epic action over the past few months. that hasn't really been the problem. the story and dialogue is what has sucked. since it's still going to be the same fight and same war i'm not expecting much
I miss the true 1on1 fights to the death, for example Itachi vs Sasuke, Sasuke vs Deidara or Nagato vs Jiraiya. Fights that are mainly ninja fights and much less monster-power-fights. So a clean Madara vs Naruto+Sasuke fight would be the closest to that, the story just has to remove the entire alliance from the battle somehow. I did expect a timeskip but it seems there won't be one, so then i guess both Naruto and Sasuke will have to get their powerups and then let the real badass fight between them and Madara begin. Madara could use the 1st as a measuring stick for his new power, just beating him in the next chapter, so we can move on to the main characters.
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Old 2013-12-02, 09:39   Link #72
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Hashirama should just blow up the moon like Picolo. No moon, no moon's eye keika... plan, I mean plan. Just according to plan... yes.
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Old 2013-12-02, 12:07   Link #73
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LOL!

Reaction/s upon this chapter!
Spoiler for pic:
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Old 2013-12-02, 12:45   Link #74
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LOL!

Reaction/s upon this chapter!
Spoiler for pic:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


I would so totally love to see this manga end like that!
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Old 2013-12-02, 16:07   Link #75
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LOL!

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If only the rep gods hadn't abandoned us. That's perfect--especially that bit with Deadpool.
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Old 2013-12-02, 17:43   Link #76
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I'm guessing Madara's counter attack would include some way to banish the Edo ninja which, along with the acquisition of Sasuke to his side (hence Oro and co.) would balance out the scales
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Old 2013-12-02, 23:40   Link #77
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I'm guessing Madara's counter attack would include some way to banish the Edo ninja which, along with the acquisition of Sasuke to his side (hence Oro and co.) would balance out the scales
why would madara want to get rid of some of his best adversaries? if anything, i think he would like to have hashirama around forever just to fight him every once in a while
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Old 2013-12-03, 13:32   Link #78
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I wonder how Madara's body works now, Edo Tensei is made by using a sacrifice's body. So if you cut him open will you find that body inside of madara? I'm really confused about this
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Old 2013-12-03, 13:39   Link #79
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I think it was Ok considering how this kind of manga work. They set rules so later they can break them, if you read such kind of manga it should be natural. Of course i agree that sometimes its "idiotic", but as i explained this case seems to be Ok. It has a decent explanation
it's not so much that the explanations were bad, it's that they exist in the first place. having the jinchuuriki die when the bijou was extracted gave that act a significant weight. if akatsuki takes ichibi then gaara will die. if they capture naruto then there's an actual threat to the protagonist's life. but no. whenever a named character needed to relinquish some or all of their bijou, this rule is simply avoided by several means. all suspense and severity of losing the bijou are gone

Quote:
That's true for ordinary ninja, and most of them were ordinary like Gaara.
but he isn't ordinary. he's a named popular character, so of course he couldn't die by that means. if he did die then the story would have been much better imo since that rule would have held up for naruto and bee to give their struggle against akatsuki some suspense
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Old 2013-12-03, 20:26   Link #80
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Actually how does the reviving work ... black Zetsu took control of Obito to cast the technique but he was going to do that anyways ... how does black zetsu make him revive madara specifically?
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