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Old 2007-10-09, 14:01   Link #1
Sazelyt
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Chapter 474 Discussion [spoilers]

Short summary:

Kuma finds Moria, and tells him about the newly appointed Shichibukai, Blackbeard. Kuma offers his help to Moria against the Strawhats but Moria rejects it. And, he ends up entering Odz's body to control him.

In the meantime, fighting between Odz and Strawhats continues. Also, it seems the fog is clearing in the sky.

Spoiler for extended version by BF(APForums):
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Old 2007-10-09, 14:32   Link #2
Fyria
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Oh shit this GOT TO BE TRUE!

Awesome spoiler, much like I expected. Damn much depends about on Kuma now... if he decides to help Moria then I guess that will be simply too much for Strawhats.

Just omg... So Blackbeard IS new Schichibukai.... what means Ace has been defeated even killed...or taken as prisoner to World Goverment as show-off of Blackbeards power.

Fog is clearing... and sunlight will prove fatal to Luffy if he won't get his shadow back in time.

Moria and Oz united, Usopp and Brooke finding large enough salt doze... I think it's key of Oz's defeat but Moria entering the fray can mean only trouble...if he can use his shadow powers from inside Oz it can be VERY bad for Strawhats.

Damn this is getting so exciting. I guess 5 next chapters will be truely epic. I can't wait for Friday now!
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Old 2007-10-09, 17:12   Link #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyria
Ace has been defeated even killed...or taken as prisoner to World Goverment as show-off of Blackbeards power.
He wouldn't be taken prisoner, that would enrage Whitebeard not unless it was kept secret.
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Old 2007-10-09, 20:29   Link #4
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So... what i'm kind of wondering is when it's says it's like a robot, does it mean that Hogback like actually deisnged a control room like interior for Oz? i'm guessing that's what it means... though i imagine actual control of Oz is result of shadow powers, as in Moria can directly control the zombies if he wanted to... all in all, it sounds like instead of fighting Luffy himself, he's goona go an rely on Oz's might; atleast until the strawhats de-shadow Oz...

Another interesting turn of events is the fog rolling out; i wonder, is it the cast that the fog is rolling out as a rare event in the black triangle, or could it be that Oz's rampage has set Thriller Bark off course and the Ship is actually leaving the Black triangle(the fog isn't rolling out, the ship is leaving the fog)... alittle bit of critisim though, i think Oda could have handled this part better; he should not have remined us of the Dawn count down last chapter(or atleast make it less obvious). That reminder was enough to get me too look back in chapters and remember what Ussop said about Dawn and immediatly guess that the somehow the Sun was going to come out somewhere (wheather it be the fog rolling out, or their just being one spot where the sun always shines)... really, if it wasn't for that reminder of Oda's i would have been very surprised by the fog rolling out, as i did not remember the little bit of forshadowing ussop had given may chapters back...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenWingz View Post
He wouldn't be taken prisoner, that would enrage Whitebeard not unless it was kept secret.
The world govnerment has been trying to get rid of pirates, they are criminals... I don't think the WG has any qualms about getting rid of any of Whitebeards men, especially powerful ones; whitebeard would have to plow through the marines to get to the WG, they got plenty of protection. So far, i don't think i've heard anything about the WG or Marines trying to Appease Whitebeard... in the case of pirates like Buggy, poeple who have no chance of facing WB, they obviously want to do everything they can to stay on Whitebeard's good side.
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Old 2007-10-09, 20:45   Link #5
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenWingz View Post
He wouldn't be taken prisoner, that would enrage Whitebeard not unless it was kept secret.
That kind of thing cannot be kept as a secret. As we were told earlier, Shichibukai has to make other pirates fear themselves, and that requires them to be known around the world based on what they had achieved before. For Blackbeard, that is beating Ace and giving him to the World Government. (if you remember, Luffy's grandfather is widely known around the world because of his capture of Roger)

Also, if you consider the two options for Blackbeard, capturing Ace alive or killing him, I think the choice is clear for him: capturing him alive (unless he accidentally kills Ace). That way, he can achieve whatever he has planned to do (becoming a Shichibukai to hide behind World Government, just like Crocodile), and he can avoid further danger ahead of him (that will definitely be caused by Whitebeard) by not killing Ace. By giving Ace to the world government, Blackbeard makes World Government a partner for his crime (according to Whitebeard).
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Old 2007-10-10, 09:23   Link #6
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Cant wait for the next step in Blackbeard's plans to become Pirate King also it sounds like Moria finally starting to fight seriously
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Old 2007-10-10, 23:59   Link #7
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how the hell did the world government know that the strawhats are in moria's ship??
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Old 2007-10-11, 04:22   Link #8
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Well i hate to say this, but Moria is as good as toast. With his refusal to accept Kuma's assitance, he's pretty much gonna be squashed soon. I'm sure of it now.
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Old 2007-10-11, 12:09   Link #9
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by chitgoks View Post
how the hell did the world government know that the strawhats are in moria's ship??
Its the WG......the den den lines are taped.

Im glad the main story is picking up, with the world powers & all.

I don't think Ace is dead, the WG wouldn't killed him behind cloesd doors, if that was the case Gold D Rogers would have been killed behind closed doors but he didn't. Ace is some where in a holding cell.
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Old 2007-10-11, 18:35   Link #10
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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
I don't think Ace is dead, the WG wouldn't killed him behind cloesd doors, if that was the case Gold D Rogers would have been killed behind closed doors but he didn't. Ace is some where in a holding cell.
I dont think ace is that important for WG to show off.Still he is more valuable as a hostage rather than a corpse.If he is alive and prisoner of WG...Whitebeard does not give a thing about Ace's life anyway but he looks like a proud and stubborn idiot, no matter what he will try to bring Ace back in a scenario like this, just to regain his honor back...
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Old 2007-10-11, 20:11   Link #11
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If Ace is being taken as prisoner, anyone think Luffy will go save him?
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Old 2007-10-11, 22:09   Link #12
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by shankss View Post
I dont think ace is that important for WG to show off.Still he is more valuable as a hostage rather than a corpse.If he is alive and prisoner of WG...Whitebeard does not give a thing about Ace's life anyway but he looks like a proud and stubborn idiot, no matter what he will try to bring Ace back in a scenario like this, just to regain his honor back...
Ace is a famous Pirate, one of the captains of the strongest Yonkou, WHITEBREAD'S crew. Heck Ace comands the 2nd crops, Ace is more important then Luffy hench the reason why Blackbeard don't need Luffy any more.
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Old 2007-10-12, 05:24   Link #13
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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
Ace is a famous Pirate, one of the captains of the strongest Yonkou, WHITEBREAD'S crew. Heck Ace comands the 2nd crops, Ace is more important then Luffy hench the reason why Blackbeard don't need Luffy any more.
Hanging off the Pirate King nominee is one thing, hanging of his officers are nothing too big Tell me then, why we didnt even see Gol D. Roger's crew executed or simply, why nobody ever talked about his officers? no matter how strong a second commander is, captain is the highest position on ship and symbolizing the crew.Thats why theyre executing captains on public.Right now Ace's situation is an exception because he can surely be used as a bait to catch a greater fish
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Old 2007-10-12, 08:15   Link #14
Fyria
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Originally Posted by shankss View Post
Hanging off the Pirate King nominee is one thing, hanging of his officers are nothing too big Tell me then, why we didnt even see Gol D. Roger's crew executed or simply, why nobody ever talked about his officers? no matter how strong a second commander is, captain is the highest position on ship and symbolizing the crew.Thats why theyre executing captains on public.Right now Ace's situation is an exception because he can surely be used as a bait to catch a greater fish
I got image that Gol D. Roger turned himself willingly to World Goverment after he achieved reach Raftel and get to Pirate King. So I guess he parted with his crew before he got captured.

And capturing Ace? well it's sure better than killing him because he is great charecter but tbh World Goverment had been disasterous with prisoners late....Annihilation of Enies Lobby and infiltraion of Croc's prison.

World Goverment had suffered too many disasters they perhaps just kill Ace for PR
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Old 2007-10-12, 16:27   Link #15
Master Mold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankss View Post
Hanging off the Pirate King nominee is one thing, hanging of his officers are nothing too big Tell me then, why we didnt even see Gol D. Roger's crew executed or simply, why nobody ever talked about his officers? no matter how strong a second commander is, captain is the highest position on ship and symbolizing the crew.Thats why theyre executing captains on public.Right now Ace's situation is an exception because he can surely be used as a bait to catch a greater fish
If Fire fist Ace Captain of one of Whitebeards crew is not really a big name to the WG, why would Blackbeard be where he is now, how come Blackbeard is not going after Luffy anymore?

Ace is one of the big names in the One Piece world. Thats my pont.
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Old 2007-10-12, 16:54   Link #16
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Originally Posted by JINBEI View Post
If Fire fist Ace Captain of one of Whitebeards crew is not really a big name to the WG, why would Blackbeard be where he is now, how come Blackbeard is not going after Luffy anymore?

Ace is one of the big names in the One Piece world. Thats my pont.
He is big name indeed, still I dont see him something great like getting impaled from hearts like Gold D Roger.It sounds funny to publicly execute a second officer like a hero/legend.I see it like, Lucci of goverment..If pirates somehow manage to capture Lucci and Sengoku, then they would surely stab Lucci like some trash and give a big end to sengoku..Like difference between ranks
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Old 2007-10-12, 17:03   Link #17
Master Mold
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Originally Posted by shankss View Post
He is big name indeed, still I dont see him something great like getting impaled from hearts like Gold D Roger.It sounds funny to publicly execute a second officer like a hero/legend.I see it like, Lucci of goverment..If pirates somehow manage to capture Lucci and Sengoku, then they would surely stab Lucci like some trash and give a big end to sengoku..Like difference between ranks
Yea, I get what your saying. but I don't see the WG killing Ace.
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Old 2007-10-12, 17:31   Link #18
shankss
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Yea, I get what your saying. but I don't see the WG killing Ace.
Agreed.Only little option of Ace's death is Blackbeard's intent to kill.He enjoys killing and destroying everything on his path.Dead or alive,Ace will carry him to shichibukai status anyway...
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Old 2007-10-12, 19:49   Link #19
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After this arc I hope we get 2 see more of the members in the 3 Great powers, like Red Dog & the others.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2007-10-12 at 20:07.
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Old 2007-10-13, 02:35   Link #20
Slayerx
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Well it seems like Moria is relying on Oz's strength and cheap tricks to do most of his fighting, pheh... Moria's set himself up for a loss with his denial of Kuma's help, the only question is how big of a loss... one possibility would be death, since if he just gets defeated, then the World gov't won't have lost a shichibukai, plus i don't think he's the type to be a reaccuring villian; on the other hand, if Moria stays alive the world powers remain as they are and the world gov't doesn't need to look for a new shichibukai... however, one must wonder if Kuma will interfer even if Moria doesn't want him too... and one must wonder what Kuma is thinking and how that might play into his role in this arc, since it seems like he may think the balance of power may have shifted even furthar; perhaps he suspects Blackbeard true intentions.... much, much more intrest in Kuma; he's been stealing the show from Moria ever since he showed up and he just keeps going.

I think i got a handle of how some of Kuma's powers mihgt work... when it comes to doing what he did to Perona, it could be that he needs to know where they would want to go before he can teleport them like that; hence why when Kuma asked "where would you like to go?", Moria replied with, "eh i know your powers; you come here to fight me?"

either that... or maybe he just asks that to his victims cause he just likes to send them where they would want to go, y'know just out of personal preference instead of just sending them some where randomly.

However, if he does send people to where they want to go, then i would predict that once Kuma's powers are told to us, we will see a mini-cover-arc about perona and where she got sent to

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankss View Post
He is big name indeed, still I dont see him something great like getting impaled from hearts like Gold D Roger.It sounds funny to publicly execute a second officer like a hero/legend.I see it like, Lucci of goverment..If pirates somehow manage to capture Lucci and Sengoku, then they would surely stab Lucci like some trash and give a big end to sengoku..Like difference between ranks
The world government would definatly publicly exectute ace, no doubt about that. Public executions are very effective in striking fear in all those who would oppose the world government... Seeing Ace die would turn many potneial pirates away and set poeple straight; a reminder of what happens when you are a ciminal. Hell, even in the real world, governments would use public executions on anyone who commited a crime they conisdered serious as to send out a message to all those who would commit such a crime; and it never mattered whether or not the poeple were important.... what might change with a pirates status is how their executed; those of Ace's fame would get excuted alone or with others of his same status, while Peons will be killed in a large group.
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