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Old 2014-01-27, 05:36   Link #21
felix
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Windows 7 is not good, it's essentially just "kind of not crap." I still miss a ton of the functionality they took out just for the sake of having stupid shit like "oh you can wigle windows at side of screen" in demos (bitch you could ctrl+click and tile infinity windows before! both horizontally and vertically).

Unless MS fired the designers for window 8 (unlikely!) expect to see at best a "kind of not crap" windows 8 that's totally inferior to windows 7 still.
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Old 2014-01-29, 12:57   Link #22
Miles Teg
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Unless MS fired the designers for window 8 (unlikely!) expect to see at best a "kind of not crap" windows 8 that's totally inferior to windows 7 still.
It's what has happened when Steven Sinofsky has left Microsoft, he is the one responsible for the Modern UI everywhere. Most of what has appeared in Windows 8.1 or the new update wouldn't have happened if he was still the head of Windows.
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Old 2014-01-29, 14:40   Link #23
felix
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Originally Posted by Miles Teg View Post
It's what has happened when Steven Sinofsky has left Microsoft, he is the one responsible for the Modern UI everywhere. Most of what has appeared in Windows 8.1 or the new update wouldn't have happened if he was still the head of Windows.
Don't worry the fallout is still there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
After Windows 8 reached the release to manufacturing milestone, it was indicated that Sinofsky and his team were working on a future version of the Windows operating system.
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Old 2014-01-29, 16:08   Link #24
Miles Teg
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Don't worry the fallout is still there...
I don't really care I am a Linux (Fedora) user

The one Windows for all devices (Sinofsky view on Windows) has been more or less buried, and we can start to see that in 8.1 update 1 for example the right click has started to make an appearance on the start screen or that it's possible to turn off the computer directly from the start screen/more easily, something that Sinofsky was saying was not necessary.
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Old 2014-01-30, 14:36   Link #25
konart
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98 was good.

This is the right chart:
Spoiler for img:
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Old 2014-01-30, 15:06   Link #26
monster
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Windows XP's not good. It's just better than the DOS-based Windows that consumers used before XP and Service Pack 2 made it tolerable. The Longhorn development problem and the problem with Vista upon release also gave additional time for XP to be the dominant Windows version on the market, thus increasing XP's usage penetration and adding to its staying power.
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Old 2014-01-30, 15:38   Link #27
felix
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Windows XP was good; for all its flaws it was at least usable.
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Old 2014-01-30, 16:18   Link #28
monster
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Windows XP was good; for all its flaws it was at least usable.
Every version of Windows was usable, at least since Windows 3.0.
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Old 2014-01-30, 19:34   Link #29
felix
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Every version of Windows was usable, at least since Windows 3.0.
Windows 8 has been borderline unusable, and at first it took me a while to get past the lack of certain Windows 7 functionality.

So much wasted time adapting to the bullshit changes...
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Old 2014-01-31, 00:02   Link #30
Irenicus
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Originally Posted by konart View Post
This is the right chart:
There are different versions of the Windows cycle meme. Some incorporate Windows 98 SE and Windows 2000 as separate versions, for example. There's apparently a hardcore group of Microsoft users who felt that Windows 2000 was rock solid and XP was for a long time a "popularized," less stable, more vulnerable version for noobs.

The history after XP is universally agreed upon, though. They screwed up Vista, they rescued the platform with 7, and then they blasted it to hell in 8 because lulz.

I blame forced stack ranking. People pushed to the top of Microsoft are not you and me. They're sociopaths, corporate climbers. They kinda missed the whole "iterative development" startup tech revolution.
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Old 2014-01-31, 02:39   Link #31
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Windows 8 has been borderline unusable, and at first it took me a while to get past the lack of certain Windows 7 functionality.

So much wasted time adapting to the bullshit changes...
There are some minor interface changes here and there, but for the most part, I've been using Windows the same way up to now, with Windows 8.1.
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Old 2014-02-01, 14:44   Link #32
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Threshold? I'm reminded of that really shitty episode of Star Trek Voyager. >.>

It feels oddly appropriate.

I wish UI designers would focus more on usability. Like, if you have to spend one more click on doing something, then the UI designers are morons and should be slapped in the face with a rubber chicken.
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Old 2014-02-01, 17:33   Link #33
felix
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I wish UI designers would focus more on usability. Like, if you have to spend one more click on doing something, then the UI designers are morons and should be slapped in the face with a rubber chicken.
HA! If only it was that simple.

I mean just look at the recent improvements made by so called modern UI designers:
  • look we can make interface elements super gigantic, this will show up a lot better in product screenshots; also haven't you seen movies and their intentionally-completely-useless-interfaces-designed-to-be-viewed-clearly-from-10m-away-so-audience-can-see-it,
  • look at all this awesome negative space I added everywhere in my design, it's called "negative space" and it's positive thing? get it. Huh? what do you mean it only looks good in photoshop and people on small screens will just have less room to do anything? don't worry I though of the people that still use 32" screens too; it just needs to be fullscreen that's all.
  • you have multiple monitors? well sorry tablets dont have multiple screens so fuck you and your productivity
  • look at this awesome side menu we added to windows 8! huh what do you mean it's hard with a mouse you just place you mouse at edge. The mouse moves to your other monitor if you're at the edge and you have to aim at 1px to get it to work? I don't know that doesn't happen my mac-laptop-with-one-screen so clearly you're doign something wrong...
  • whats this tiling thing? everyone needs to learn how fun it is to work on a 7" screen and spend a minute for every 10min of work swiping around between multiple workspace with all sorts of facy effects. I saw this on a infocommercial on tv apparently if you swipe with 5 fingers every 5min you'll have less risk of getting windmill cancer! Oh oh and look if you have multiple things open we made it into this completely layered thing that takes a minute to scroll though, ain't the animation great! I'm so going to facebook, twitter, youtube, vine, pin, [...], myspace it and then I'll probably go to every conference and present it so I can copyright it later! awesome!
  • NO right click is evil! if someone using it on a table cant do it we need to make sure the mouse people cant either, it's industry standard to block features even if they existed before to achieve parity, just look at nvidia and all the good thing its done for linux. Huh, what are hotkeys?
  • Hey look we replaced the ugly image viewer in windows 8. So before this danky old image viewer thing would open completely-and-utterly-instantly-and-display-just-about-everything (...at utter garbage detail then the actual image was) but as you can see google added this slightly-less-danky viewer from their Picasa-thing that forces you into a stupid fullscreen mode every time and only allows you scroll though images alphabetaically (even though most of the time browsing images you want to skip to ones of interest based on thumbnail). We can't have that! So I added our own danky-full-screen-image-viewer, now you click an image and it loads this entire other operating system then plays this fancy 1min image loading animation (didn't have the time to put the animation together so just put in a blue screen with an image icon in the middle) and then you see the image in fullscreen, I got rid of any controls so it looks clean. Huh? view another image, oh well you have to somehow get back to the desktop and find your folder with images again. Only worked on it in photoshop so not quite sure myself.
  • Gee this blue screen thing sure has a lot of numbers I dont understand. If I can't read them with my photoshop experience it's probably useless so I'll just replace it all with a smilie face.
  • Hey hey look these guys-that-do-things-completely-unreleated-to-us said they have absolutely-conclusive information that infinite scrolling is completely-perfect so obviously it's what we need to use even-though-we-didnt-do-any-testing-or-research-on-our-own-completely-unrelated-use-cases. Also we're tacking out all these filter options and search, don't worry it's a good thing since it doesnt look good in my photoshop. And as any super cool designer knows if you take any number of completely unrelated "good" things out of context and just add them up and stick them into whatever you can only ever end up with "awesome" ...because the user is always stupid. What you dont want to see the top entries you wanted to see the first entries? Well you just scroll down (for 10hours) until you reach the bottom, see much better then what you needed to do in the old days where you had to actually click the last page!
  • customizable panes? non-modal design? I can't make those easily in photoshop so the application will just have to move though giant screens, it's for the best (for me).

(I can go on and on... but it's already turning into giant wall of text)

You know whats worse, the so called "better half" of the OS market (and I say half ironically), the linux distros of the world, have just followed suite in the crappage instead of actually just working on what they should be doing such as maybe designing file system that is actually usable with a mouse or fixing all the inconsistencies with the desktop experience (I wonder if I ever saw a single distro that could actually present and keep icons organized and compact). But I guess I shouldn't be surprised since that linux interface design isn't moving given how they can't even be bothered to keep up with simple changes such as "oh hey we're not in the 1980 anymore so keyboards (then terminals) don't have arrows on hjkl making programs that still require them completely unintuitive to newer usersm" (but who needs common sense anyway).

I hate to generalize but, all modern interface design decisions as far as OSes and Websites go have been nothing but garbage in recent years.
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Old 2014-02-01, 18:00   Link #34
monster
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Well, if any of that has taught me anything, it's that software interface design can be subjective. None of that impacts me negatively.

In fact, speaking of "super gigantic" interface elements, I dislike the recent tendency on some third-party Windows program to "save vertical space" that I see in some programs, web browsers being the worst offenders. I don't want small title bars and stuff.
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Old 2014-02-01, 18:20   Link #35
Tiberium Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
HA! If only it was that simple.

I mean just look at the recent improvements made by so called modern UI designers:
  • look we can make interface elements super gigantic, this will show up a lot better in product screenshots; also haven't you seen movies and their intentionally-completely-useless-interfaces-designed-to-be-viewed-clearly-from-10m-away-so-audience-can-see-it,
  • look at all this awesome negative space I added everywhere in my design, it's called "negative space" and it's positive thing? get it. Huh? what do you mean it only looks good in photoshop and people on small screens will just have less room to do anything? don't worry I though of the people that still use 32" screens too; it just needs to be fullscreen that's all.
  • you have multiple monitors? well sorry tablets dont have multiple screens so fuck you and your productivity
  • look at this awesome side menu we added to windows 8! huh what do you mean it's hard with a mouse you just place you mouse at edge. The mouse moves to your other monitor if you're at the edge and you have to aim at 1px to get it to work? I don't know that doesn't happen my mac-laptop-with-one-screen so clearly you're doign something wrong...
  • whats this tiling thing? everyone needs to learn how fun it is to work on a 7" screen and spend a minute for every 10min of work swiping around between multiple workspace with all sorts of facy effects. I saw this on a infocommercial on tv apparently if you swipe with 5 fingers every 5min you'll have less risk of getting windmill cancer! Oh oh and look if you have multiple things open we made it into this completely layered thing that takes a minute to scroll though, ain't the animation great! I'm so going to facebook, twitter, youtube, vine, pin, [...], myspace it and then I'll probably go to every conference and present it so I can copyright it later! awesome!
  • NO right click is evil! if someone using it on a table cant do it we need to make sure the mouse people cant either, it's industry standard to block features even if they existed before to achieve parity, just look at nvidia and all the good thing its done for linux. Huh, what are hotkeys?
  • Hey look we replaced the ugly image viewer in windows 8. So before this danky old image viewer thing would open completely-and-utterly-instantly-and-display-just-about-everything (...at utter garbage detail then the actual image was) but as you can see google added this slightly-less-danky viewer from their Picasa-thing that forces you into a stupid fullscreen mode every time and only allows you scroll though images alphabetaically (even though most of the time browsing images you want to skip to ones of interest based on thumbnail). We can't have that! So I added our own danky-full-screen-image-viewer, now you click an image and it loads this entire other operating system then plays this fancy 1min image loading animation (didn't have the time to put the animation together so just put in a blue screen with an image icon in the middle) and then you see the image in fullscreen, I got rid of any controls so it looks clean. Huh? view another image, oh well you have to somehow get back to the desktop and find your folder with images again. Only worked on it in photoshop so not quite sure myself.
  • Gee this blue screen thing sure has a lot of numbers I dont understand. If I can't read them with my photoshop experience it's probably useless so I'll just replace it all with a smilie face.
  • Hey hey look these guys-that-do-things-completely-unreleated-to-us said they have absolutely-conclusive information that infinite scrolling is completely-perfect so obviously it's what we need to use even-though-we-didnt-do-any-testing-or-research-on-our-own-completely-unrelated-use-cases. Also we're tacking out all these filter options and search, don't worry it's a good thing since it doesnt look good in my photoshop. And as any super cool designer knows if you take any number of completely unrelated "good" things out of context and just add them up and stick them into whatever you can only ever end up with "awesome" ...because the user is always stupid. What you dont want to see the top entries you wanted to see the first entries? Well you just scroll down (for 10hours) until you reach the bottom, see much better then what you needed to do in the old days where you had to actually click the last page!
  • customizable panes? non-modal design? I can't make those easily in photoshop so the application will just have to move though giant screens, it's for the best (for me).

(I can go on and on... but it's already turning into giant wall of text)

You know whats worse, the so called "better half" of the OS market (and I say half ironically), the linux distros of the world, have just followed suite in the crappage instead of actually just working on what they should be doing such as maybe designing file system that is actually usable with a mouse or fixing all the inconsistencies with the desktop experience (I wonder if I ever saw a single distro that could actually present and keep icons organized and compact). But I guess I shouldn't be surprised since that linux interface design isn't moving given how they can't even be bothered to keep up with simple changes such as "oh hey we're not in the 1980 anymore so keyboards (then terminals) don't have arrows on hjkl making programs that still require them completely unintuitive to newer usersm" (but who needs common sense anyway).

I hate to generalize but, all modern interface design decisions as far as OSes and Websites go have been nothing but garbage in recent years.

Agreed to those points.
In my opinion they should keep several UI so that we users choose the one suitable for us.
My metro in Win8 was horrible and I haven't touched in Win8 for ages. UI can be a huge turn off. And metro was front page turn off for me.

Anyway here's an interesting vid

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Old 2014-02-04, 15:24   Link #36
Sugetsu
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Whats with all the whining about Windows 8? It reminds me of the "scandal" over mass effect 3 ending... and by that I mean lots of nitpicking. Yes the metro interface can be cumbersome the first time you try it but aside from that the OS is much faster, secure and efficient than windows 7.

In my personal experience it is an excellent OS for a triple monitor set up. It more reliable than other windows versions when it comes to working across multiple screens.

Anyway, stop crying already if the next windows update doesn't alleviate most of the "issues" you all have I am sure windows 9 will do the trick.
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Old 2014-02-04, 16:38   Link #37
felix
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Yes the metro interface can be cumbersome the first time you try it but aside from that the OS is much faster, secure and efficient than windows 7.
Windows 8 is actually slower, if you think a windows 8 fresh install is faster then your windows 7 is simply filled with bloatware. Windows 8 with stuff on it is "more bloated" (the damn thing runs its entire metro garbage in the background after all and has your desktop as 2nd hand citizen); though not substantially enough in raw speed anyone should care too much. The speed issue is in use cases, ie. slower because it malfunctions or doesn't work. Due to various wonderful incompatibility issues (likely due to the wonderful new security policies I image) it causes a ton of programs to run substantially slower (large part of which seem to be disk access related). Heck if you're running multiple OSes on the same machine it even messes with them by making sure with its new and improved bootloader that switching to anything but windows 8 will require a reboot (though that can be fixed, by wasting more of your time).

At work I was forced to use windows 8 and at home I have windows 7. Doing similar things (even the most mundane of regular day tasks) I would always be able to do it substantially faster on windows 7 just because the damn operating system wouldn't get in my way all the time, I wouldn't be wasting time "fixing" it and I would also not be wasting time finding alternatives that would actually work on it. Also amusingly the few times I checked windows 8 was also eating a lot more ram, again while doing the same thing; something like 2-3gigs at most and this on a machine that had less then what the windows 7 had to work with. Having seen this happen for over a year I'm pretty sure I would have warmed up to windows 8 by now if it wasn't actually a worse operating system in every way possible.

Also while security is a concern if you don't go to stupid sites, download shady torrents and such and have a semi decent antivirus, while the risk isn't nonexistent, the difference in security between the two OSes is more or less irrelevant marketing.

Anyway, if it's worked flawlessly for you, then great for you!

Personally I've hadn't had a month where there wasn't some stupid thing related to it I had to sort out to get work done. With how much useless work it's caused I would have formatted and bouth a windows 7, if I was actually allowed to do so. I mean for crying out loud two days ago I formatted my home machine and did a fresh install, re-installing and configuring most things, including all the fiddly settings on various programs with all the plugins I need to use them efficiently. It all took less time then most windows 8 headaches took to sort out.
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Old 2014-02-04, 17:20   Link #38
monster
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My personal computers have always been generally faster than work/school computers. Its usually due to the programs and policies that are running on those corporate computers.
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Old 2014-02-12, 09:53   Link #39
Ayumi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsp2003 View Post
Still using XP and 2k3 Server, plus Debian Linux with XFCE which mimics classic Windows 9x/2k. Guess why.
Used XP myself, up until ~2011 or so. It's by far my favorite OS by Microsoft, and
it has always served me with a stable and reliable performance. What's heartbreaking is that Microsoft will no longer offer any support or updates to Windows XP as of April 8th (this also counts for Office 2003).

It also sucks that they advice users to upgrade to Win 8.1 and not 7. Obviously users with enough experience will know to avoid this (unless they actually prefer 8.1 over 7), but there are still new users who are clueless on it and will upgrade to 8.1. But again, people without more than basic computer knowledge would never really care much (see below for more).
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
I wish it could've been released this year to replace my parents' XP computer in April. Oh well, 8.1 with Update 1 will have to do.

I wonder if 9 will also be a free upgrade to 8.1 or if Microsoft is really counting it as a separate OS to get away from 8.x.
Older people tend to despise upgrades and new things within technology, once they've gotten comfortable with one thing.

Not sure how knowledge your parents are with computers, but do you think your parents would prefer the 8.1 UI over Windows 7? If I upgraded my mum's computer to 8.1, she would probably not know how to use it and she'd let it slowly die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamZZ View Post
Because the hardware is not broken yet....

From the past discussion, people already display their sentiment in patterns.

The pattern is:
Windows 95: Crap
Windows NT 4.0: Good
Windows 98: Crap
Winodws 2000: Good
Windows Me: Crap
Windows XP: Good
Windows Vista: Crap
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Crap
Windows 9: Looking forward to it
Windows 10: Avoid it

Both users and MS have learned some lessons. If you have extra money, it's still worthwhile to try out new features. The next release will fix annoying features. It's same as Smartphone with or without "S" mark.
It's almost awkward how accurate this pattern is, and also terrible for Microsoft upon release of supposedly terrible operating systems.

Little is known about Windows 9 yet, but among many rumours, some say that Windows 8.2 will most likely be released before Windows 9".

To be honest, if the pattern continues and the next OS will be good/desirable, I hope they decide to name it something other than 8.2. 8 sucked and I don't think it's great marketing to name it off of the other version. I did read somewhere that Windows 9 will be related/based of/corresponding with Windows 8.1. Whether that's true (which I doubt) or not, we'll just have to wait and see!
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Old 2014-02-12, 12:19   Link #40
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayumi View Post
Not sure how knowledge your parents are with computers, but do you think your parents would prefer the 8.1 UI over Windows 7? If I upgraded my mum's computer to 8.1, she would probably not know how to use it and she'd let it slowly die.
I've already upgraded my dad's laptop from 7 to 8 to 8.1. Sure, there's a bit of a learning curve, but really, the only thing he couldn't figure out was how to shut down the laptop. After I told him that, he's able to do pretty much everything else that he would do on 7.

And with the changes that came with 8.1 and will come with Update 1 and 9, I don't consider minor issues like not knowing how to shut down is enough of a deterrent to not upgrade from 7. It's even easier if the user only uses desktop apps, as the workflow is largely the same.
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