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Old 2014-01-20, 21:10   Link #41
Tenzen12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Honestly, I don't agree with Tenzen12 there.

Look, I have seen countless optimistic and/or life-affirming anime works.

Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
Gurren Lagann
Gundam Seed
Love Live!: School Idol Project
Tari Tari
Hanasaku Iroha
Mari-Mite
Saki
Chuunibyou
Free!
Clannad
Kanon
Little Busters!
Hyouka
Moshidora
K-On!
Tamayura

And I could probably go on all day here, but I'll spare people the tediousness of that.

What does American TV have that can match-up to all of that when it comes to being optimistic and embracing positivism?
I don't realy see your point, I never said there aren't tons and tons of optimistic works, only that that's not enough to claim Anime being optimistic as whole. Anime is very diverse in metter of fact.

Also i don't think that list is composed well as most of these are harems or contain other kind of pandering (moe/BL ect...)( I don't think it's necessarily wrong), and thus it's selected from genres that are least likely contain cynism. (also hanasaku is more of realistic than optimistic, and Gundams generaly (Seed included) aren't realy optimistic per se.)
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Old 2014-01-20, 21:40   Link #42
speedyexpress48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
You must be talking about the 2nd arc to Railgun S, since the first arc is quite dark.
Yeah, pretty much (see what I said above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Maybe cynicism is the wrong word. What I mean is that American picture media (TV and Movies) seems filled with:

A: Mindless entertainment (sex and violence) that claims to have the good guys win, but you can tell that the creators don't really believe it but are just going through the motions because that's what the formula says to do. (Most any Hollywood blockbuster that isn't based on a previous franchise). Yeah plenty of anime fall into this category too, so I don't count this against either form of media. It's just what happens when people are trying to make money and don't care about the story.
Well, I can't see much to disagree with you on here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
B: Endless Avoidance of Responsibility (eg Friends and similar sitcoms). Compare this to something like Bunny Drop.
Come on, you don't think most anime comedies don't do the same thing? Though I guess I can't argue with you on Bunny Drop, but that's more of a drama than a sitcom IMO, and it's much more of a rare exception than a common theme.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
C: The World is crap so give up and be as cruel and corrupt as everyone else. (The "Realistic" "Dramas" and "reality" shows)
Reality shows are all just ego-competitions anyways, and I really don't see any value of them being used as a form of storytelling

As for the dramas part...My Name Is Earl is definitely an exception to what you just said, and there's probably quite a few others, though I been out of touch with Hollywood for a while now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Dark stuff happens in anime, but good still triumphs.
Ironically, there are many anime fans who like anime for the exact opposite reason: American TV is too wishy-washy, and anime shows that good does not always triumph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Not because good always wins but because people value it enough that they sacrifice for it. Madoka, NGE, ect all examine this. I don't mind a show that says: "The world is crap" cause I know the truth of it, but I want the show to then say: "Do good anyway." (Which is probably why I hate Code Geass).
You would hate watching Madoka: Rebellion then.

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Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Maybe a better way to say it is that anime usually still displays faith in human beings, while too much of American media does not.
Sometimes I think anime displays too much faith in humans who clearly don't deserve it, but this is definitely something that depends on your view

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Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
If you've read "The Seven Basic Plots" by Booker you'll understand when I say that American shows seem to have "lost the plot" while anime still tends to follow the true pattern.
You mean this?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...evenBasicPlots

Dunno, but the basics seem rather...basic and bland. I honestly don't think a lot of good anime follow that basic pattern...same with American TV shows.
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Old 2014-01-20, 22:23   Link #43
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One thing I want to make clear here is that I'm not saying that American TV is just crap, period, end of story. If you're into darker, grittier, edgier shows, then American TV may well have an edge on anime. But for those of us looking for something a bit more optimistic in its outlook, anime has a lot to offer (much moreso than American TV, in my opinion). With that in mind...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
I don't realy see your point, I never said there aren't tons and tons of optimistic works, only that that's not enough to claim Anime being optimistic as whole.
I'm not saying that anime is optimistic as a whole. Just that it contains more optimistic works than modern American TV does (especially as a percentage of total creative output).

So I completely see where Sackett is coming from, and I agree with him.


Quote:
Anime is very diverse in metter of fact.
I agree with you here.


Quote:
Also i don't think that list is composed well as most of these are harems or contain other kind of pandering (moe/BL ect...)( I don't think it's necessarily wrong),
Moe is a taste element that's no more or less legitimate than "action". So I don't see a problem with my list.


Quote:
and thus it's selected from genres that are least likely contain cynism.
So what? It doesn't change the fact that there's a lot of optimistic anime shows.


Quote:
(also hanasaku is more of realistic than optimistic, and Gundams generaly (Seed included) aren't realy optimistic per se.)
Hanasaku Iroha's lead character is pure genki girl, and she tends to do well.

And you're probably right about Gundam shows in general, but I disagree on Seed. I'd argue that Seed's conclusion is downright ridiculously optimistic given what happens in the rest of the series.


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Originally Posted by speedyexpress48 View Post
You would hate watching Madoka: Rebellion then.
I disagree. I really wish you'd stop making this sort of argument about this movie, because you're going to bias people's take on the movie towards a certain interpretation (one which is debatable at best). It's better if people go in with an open mind and make their own conclusions.
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Old 2014-01-20, 23:04   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I disagree. I really wish you'd stop making this sort of argument about this movie, because you're going to bias people's take on the movie towards a certain interpretation (one which is debatable at best). It's better if people go in with an open mind and make their own conclusions.
And you're biasing their take as well. It's hard not to be biased here, and you already made your biased argument as well IMO, so we are even. (Honestly it's hard to not bias people toward a certain interpretation unless you just don't talk about it at all.) Then again, it's kinda veering off topic, so I'll leave it at that.
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Old 2014-01-21, 01:10   Link #45
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The words I would use to describe what attracts me to anime (and the broader culture) are romantic and nostalgic. And when I say romantic I don't necessarily mean strictly-speaking romance (though it could be), but more like idealistic and wilfully naive in certain ways. While some of my favourite shows have been bittersweet or even tragic to some extent, there's still a certain sort of purity of feeling and intention that appeals to me. Perhaps in a way it's childish and "unrealistic", but there's a certain part of me that still wants to believe in the purity of childish ideals. That isn't to say that I can't also appreciate stories that are more grounded/realistic, but that isn't necessarily what I look for most in anime (because it's what I already get the most in reality). I also generally like the time period that most anime aim for (around high school or early college) because it's the time when life seems to be nothing but endless possibilities. Even though life has a way of narrowing your focus and driving you back down to reality one way or another, I still like looking back on that point in life and feeling nostalgic for the sense of optimism and pure idealism I had back then (even as I also look back on much of it as foolishness).

My favourite anime have been those that have gotten me emotionally connected to the characters to the point where I can let myself be moved (in some cases to tears) by their plights. I also like stories that help me engage with the world the characters live in, and try to make it a vibrant and interesting place. Finally, I like stories that give me interesting questions or dilemmas to ponder, and situations to piece together, even (and especially?) when these can sometimes come from unconventional sources that others dismiss or don't care to think about. Over the past few years in particular, I've found that that the shows that have had the most impact on me have been ones that some other people have despised utterly for completely different reasons than those for my own enjoyment, and I'm okay with this, even though I sometimes find the dismissive attitude some have to be somewhat frustrating.
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Old 2014-01-21, 05:47   Link #46
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On the cynicism vs optimism in both western media and anime. I think I can get what people are getting at. Example: the zombie apocalypse genre, especially the work by Romero.

I have loved the Of The Dead trilogy, but I have also grown weary of that guy's lastest work. It's full of pessimism, it constantly rub in your face that Humans are bastards and that we better let the zombies take over since humans are irredeemable and will constantly repeat the same mistakes. Of course, there are the protags who tries to survive and see another day but it is the most prevalent message that a casual can get out of the movies, other than the juvenile joy of killing zombies. (The Walking Dead is on its own league in the genre since it acknowledge that the question is much more complex than that, and how we answer is equally complex)

Now take Highschool of the Dead. Before you look at me disgusted for bringing that "fanservicey crap". I would like you to look beyond that. Beneath the raunchy fanservice, the juvenile violence and the questionable extreme right wing undertones, there is more optimism. Yes, we get Shidou and the other scumbags, but Highschool of the Dead reaffirm the humanity's will to fight for its survival, to not go down without a fight. And finally, it acknowledge that not all humans are bastards and that many will strive to do good and will put the interest of the community before their own selfish desires.
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Old 2014-01-21, 10:38   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyexpress48 View Post
And you're biasing their take as well.
No, I'm not. I'm not telling people "You'd hate watching Madoka: Rebellion" or "You'd love watching Madoka: Rebellion". I haven't gone that far. There's a difference between giving your opinion on something and telling other people what their opinion is going to be.


Quote:
It's hard not to be biased here, and you already made your biased argument as well IMO, so we are even.
How is my argument "biased"? You actually seem to be implying that simply having an opinion on something makes a person biased, and stretching the term "biased" that far would defeat the whole purpose of the term. I mean, people point out bias primarily to distinguish unbalanced and unfair opinions from more reasonable and evenhanded ones. So simply having an opinion doesn't constitute bias.

But telling people what they're going to feel towards a movie is trying to plant preconceived notions in their mind. It does risk biasing them.
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Old 2014-01-21, 11:51   Link #48
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I enjoy the inherent versatility anime seems to have with its range of genres. That is to say, no matter how my tastes change, I'll probably find an anime I can enjoy. At the same time, I don't like anime for its own sake--that honeymoon phase is over--and don't enjoy everything I watch either. Am I saying something that amounts to me having it both ways? Maybe. But that's the simplest answer I can come up with.

Edit: Alternatively, it could be that I enjoy certain anime as opposed to anime as a whole, but that "whole" includes a range of genres, but I don't enjoy every show I watch, so it goes back to just liking only certain anime, but I stick with anime because it has a range of genres, but th--
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Old 2014-01-21, 14:41   Link #49
Utsuro no Hako
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I'm mainly interested in manga and Japanese literature, and only watch anime where it overlaps with the type of manga I like (which isn't often, and it usually flops like Watamote and Flowers of Evil).

Why do I like manga and Japanese literature?

Two reasons:

1) I like stories about people working really hard to achieve a dream in life. What type of dream doesn't matter -- baseball, karuta, cooking, wine tasting -- as long as I can believe it's important to them. But you don't find that in American fiction unless the person's working in one of the few fields that are seen as "heroic" and worth dedicating your life to -- cops, doctors, soldiers, etc. Otherwise a person who works hard towards a goal is treated as though they have misplaced priorities and should be out having fun instead. If HanaIro were an American show, instead of Ohana coming to see the importance of hard work, she would've shown the people at Kissuiso the errors of their ways and at the end of the series Madame Manager would've cut loose and partied with everyone else.

2) I'm an army brat. I spent most of my childhood living on military bases. In a number of ways, Japanese culture is a lot closer to what I grew up around than the stuff you see on American TV or in novels. I especially identify with characters who feel the need to rebel against a conformist society without breaking the rules or drawing attention to themselves.
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Old 2014-01-22, 05:55   Link #50
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I adore anime like EF and Sola, that have no qualms about being sappy, melodramatic and emotional. I love the feelings those shows give me. I also like that the fandom sensibilities regarding things like cuteness and catgirls, which is just plain fun (I've long had a preference for cute rather than sexy). And I think that the cultural differences make anime interesting to watch too.
I also like the surrounding culture a lot. I like the interesting people I meet at anime socials. I also got into cosplay photography a few years back and I love meeting cosplayers and showing my pictures to other fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So what do those people see? Harem comedies and conventional action shounen, mostly. And these aren't for everyone. And perhaps unfortunately, they do tend to be "the face" of anime in the west.
I've always wondered if harem anime is actually that well known to outsiders in the west.

It does seem to be a popular idea among people I've met who want to promote anime as cool to the mainstream, which honestly worries me a little because it suggests they may be defensive about their fandom. Which is a surefire way to convince everybody that you fandom is not cool. Confidence, people. Confidence is key.
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Old 2014-01-22, 11:13   Link #51
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Honestly, because anime characters look a whole lot more appealing to me than real humans. I'm not saying that every single anime character is pretty, handsome, etc but anime at its worst is irritating, compared to the worst humans who I've found revolting.
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Old 2014-01-23, 02:32   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post

Why do I like manga and Japanese literature?

Two reasons:

1) I like stories about people working really hard to achieve a dream in life. What type of dream doesn't matter -- baseball, karuta, cooking, wine tasting -- as long as I can believe it's important to them. But you don't find that in American fiction unless the person's working in one of the few fields that are seen as "heroic" and worth dedicating your life to -- cops, doctors, soldiers, etc. Otherwise a person who works hard towards a goal is treated as though they have misplaced priorities and should be out having fun instead. If HanaIro were an American show, instead of Ohana coming to see the importance of hard work, she would've shown the people at Kissuiso the errors of their ways and at the end of the series Madame Manager would've cut loose and partied with everyone else.
This is an excellent point.

Anime basically supports the old idea that if something is worth doing, its worth doing well. This runs the full gamut from running a Inn to playing mahjong to playing karuta to playing baseball to cooking to bread-making to even working a low-paying job in a small convenience store.

I think there's something very encouraging about the idea of "No matter what you do, care about what you do, and try to do it to the best of your ability". This probably ties into the optimism point that Sackett and I made before.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I adore anime like EF and Sola, that have no qualms about being sappy, melodramatic and emotional.
To that, I would add the Key anime. I agree that its definitely a nice strength for anime - Their ability to do this type of content, and do it very well.


Quote:
I've always wondered if harem anime is actually that well known to outsiders in the west.
Back in the 2000-2007 period (i.e. largely before I delved heavily into anime, and became a big anime fan), the three anime shows I probably heard the most about on more generalized entertainment or "nerd" sites (aside from the big shounen titles) were Love Hina!, Negima, and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. So, harem, harem, and harem as a secondary element.

There's a lot of people I've met online that I would say are "gamer first, anime fan second" or "comic book fan first, anime fan" second. And the anime these people seem to be most familiar with are the big shounen titles and harem comedies. Its certainly not shows like ef or Sola. At least not in my experience.

So if you want those who dabble a bit in anime, but not much, to have a better picture of what anime has to offer, then promoting certain types of shows and relatively unknown gems might be a good idea. I don't see the harm in taking that position.


Quote:
It does seem to be a popular idea among people I've met who want to promote anime as cool to the mainstream, which honestly worries me a little because it suggests they may be defensive about their fandom.
I disagree with you here. I don't see anything wrong or necessarily defensive with trying to promote what you like as being "cool".

I've been a part of many different fandoms (pro wrestling, Star Trek, comic books, now anime) and all of them at least sometimes try to present what they like as being cool (and it should be noted that successful attempts tend to reap huge popularity - this definitely applies to late-90s pro wrestling and modern super-hero movies). I think it's just a normal approach to take if you want people to come to like what you like.
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Old 2014-01-23, 02:56   Link #53
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Well, as far as I can remember, western fandom has been focused on promoting anime. You could say it's been one of the goals around which the whole fandom rallies. I've seen local anime communities fail because this aim used to be central to their operation, but now anime are largely recognized. It seems like the work is done on that front. Perhaps that's the reason why it's suddenly 'uncool' to do it.
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Old 2014-01-23, 03:10   Link #54
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Well, as far as I can remember, western fandom has been focused on promoting anime. You could say it's been one of the goals around which the whole fandom rallies. I've seen local anime communities fail because this aim used to be central to their operation, but now anime are largely recognized. It seems like the work is done on that front. Perhaps that's the reason why it's suddenly 'uncool' to do it.
So you're saying that anime is now "largely recognized", and so... mainstream in the west? That kind of runs contrary to what the OP for this thread mentioned. My own experiences are closer to what the OP said than what you're writing here.

I think that the level of anime awareness is higher now than ever before. This is mainly because of the internet + time. But a lot of that awareness isn't positive. There's a lot of misconceptions still out there. Just because more people than ever before now know what "anime" is, at a basic level at least, doesn't mean that anime has been accepted by the mainstream.
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Old 2014-01-23, 03:33   Link #55
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I'm not sure about the West as a whole, but certainly in countries and places with large broadband internet penetration. I'm quite positive I'd be hard-pressed to find a youth that wouldn't know what "anime," "manga," or "Japanese cartoons" are in my country. For example, nobody knew what anime was in my high school class, but I made sure they did. This was way back in 2002 though.

Just to cover all my bases, the anime proliferation discussion is useless if we don't define which demographic we're talking about. When I say "everyone knows anime already," I'm limiting "everyone" to mostly people in the 18-30 demographic, since that's the most likely age group interested in anime. In the past you could find people in this age group who didn't know about them, these days it's nigh impossible, at least where I live. If nothing else, everyone knows about hentai. I think it's unfair to ask a 14-year-old if he knows about anime and expect a positive answer, since they didn't get much temporal opportunity to get to know different entertainment. I think it's equally pointless to ask a 40-something person and expect the same, because they weren't born into the internet age. This might sound harsh and you could say anime was on TV before that, but I'm talking about widespread recognition.
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Old 2014-01-23, 03:57   Link #56
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Anime -> Pokémon -> All Anime are kiddy shows
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Old 2014-01-23, 04:27   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Back in the 2000-2007 period (i.e. largely before I delved heavily into anime, and became a big anime fan), the three anime shows I probably heard the most about on more generalized entertainment or "nerd" sites (aside from the big shounen titles) were Love Hina!, Negima, and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. So, harem, harem, and harem as a secondary element.

There's a lot of people I've met online that I would say are "gamer first, anime fan second" or "comic book fan first, anime fan" second. And the anime these people seem to be most familiar with are the big shounen titles and harem comedies. Its certainly not shows like ef or Sola. At least not in my experience.
I do recall Love Hina being known even among casual anime fans around 05-06 area but that would be about the extent of their knowledge of the genre. Now, if I was on a forum frequented by people who watched fansubs - something that wasn't limited to anime-only sites - that was a different matter.


Quote:
I disagree with you here. I don't see anything wrong or necessarily defensive with trying to promote what you like as being "cool".
I think you misunderstood my point. Who makes more effective salespeople? People who show confidence in what they're selling, or those who act defensive about what they're selling? That's why it concerned me that the people I knew who seemed most interested in promoting anime also tended to express far more negative opinions about it. It's possible that they were more positive when actually making their "pitch", but I can't say for certain.
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Old 2014-01-23, 05:56   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I stopped watching Television (for the most part) when Star Trek Enterprise was cancelled.
You see, this is a major reason I like watching anime. It's not too much of a generalization to say that American TV shows get cancelled while TV anime just "end".

Original anime have been extended to multiple seasons in the past, but every season has its own climax and resolution, which are often fairly comprehensive. Strike Witches and Love Live! School Idol Project both got second seasons, but the first season conclusions of both were written in such a way that they still make "proper" endings. What's important is that while the creators kept the possibility of a future season with a few loose ends here and there, they still tried their hardest to tell a complete, satisfying story in a single season.

Of course, there are split-cour anime such as Code Geass and Fate/Zero, which aren't complete in the least for their first season conclusions. However, it's worth noting that these split-cour plans almost never extend beyond two seasons, and also that there is an exceptionally high chance that the second season *will* be released regardless of the reception to the first season.

On the other hand, most original American TV shows are made *primarily* with several seasons in mind from the start. The first season would end with an annoying cliffhanger, introduce "a new threat on the large" that tells us that our heroes aren't off the hook just yet, or do something else that would hook the audience into watching the second season to "see what happens next". Yes, split-cour anime do this too. What distinguishes American TV shows, though, is that they will follow this same formula for a "season finale" in the second season, the third season, and as many seasons as they can. American TV shows are funded by the TV stations, which will do everything in their power to keep a show on the air, even at the expense of writing quality. Eventually, they get "that one season" that jumps the shark, viewer interest falls drastically, and the TV station decides to pull the plug and cancel the show. At this point, there might be an actual series finale meant to close everything, written in a similar manner to the original anime finales I mentioned above. But at this point, the audience is so completely drained out by season quality fluctuation that they are much less likely to appreciate the series finale as much as they would if the finale was in the second season instead. The exception to this of course are mini-series such as Band of Brothers, which are much closer to anime when it comes to telling a comprehensive story.

Of course, adaptations of other works such as books and manga are a different thing. I'm not familiar with how American TV shows approach books such as A Song of Ice and Fire and Under the Dome, so I'll stop the comparisons here. With anime adapting existing works, I always take a quick look to analyze the current state of the source. The number of volumes of manga or LNs that have been released can give me a telltale sign of how the anime's pacing might work. If the manga/LN series is complete or almost complete (like with Toradora), it's more likely that the anime will tell the complete story. And of course, I'm more likely to dive into slice-of-life or comedy anime regardless of how much they adapt the source, since those tend to be quite relaxed in how they tell their stories.

To sum it up, one of the many reasons I like watching anime is that I usually know what I'm getting.
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Old 2014-01-23, 16:39   Link #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
You see, this is a major reason I like watching anime. It's not too much of a generalization to say that American TV shows get cancelled while TV anime just "end".

Original anime have been extended to multiple seasons in the past, but every season has its own climax and resolution, which are often fairly comprehensive. Strike Witches and Love Live! School Idol Project both got second seasons, but the first season conclusions of both were written in such a way that they still make "proper" endings. What's important is that while the creators kept the possibility of a future season with a few loose ends here and there, they still tried their hardest to tell a complete, satisfying story in a single season.

Of course, there are split-cour anime such as Code Geass and Fate/Zero, which aren't complete in the least for their first season conclusions. However, it's worth noting that these split-cour plans almost never extend beyond two seasons, and also that there is an exceptionally high chance that the second season *will* be released regardless of the reception to the first season.

On the other hand, most original American TV shows are made *primarily* with several seasons in mind from the start. The first season would end with an annoying cliffhanger, introduce "a new threat on the large" that tells us that our heroes aren't off the hook just yet, or do something else that would hook the audience into watching the second season to "see what happens next". Yes, split-cour anime do this too. What distinguishes American TV shows, though, is that they will follow this same formula for a "season finale" in the second season, the third season, and as many seasons as they can. American TV shows are funded by the TV stations, which will do everything in their power to keep a show on the air, even at the expense of writing quality. Eventually, they get "that one season" that jumps the shark, viewer interest falls drastically, and the TV station decides to pull the plug and cancel the show. At this point, there might be an actual series finale meant to close everything, written in a similar manner to the original anime finales I mentioned above. But at this point, the audience is so completely drained out by season quality fluctuation that they are much less likely to appreciate the series finale as much as they would if the finale was in the second season instead. The exception to this of course are mini-series such as Band of Brothers, which are much closer to anime when it comes to telling a comprehensive story.

Of course, adaptations of other works such as books and manga are a different thing. I'm not familiar with how American TV shows approach books such as A Song of Ice and Fire and Under the Dome, so I'll stop the comparisons here. With anime adapting existing works, I always take a quick look to analyze the current state of the source. The number of volumes of manga or LNs that have been released can give me a telltale sign of how the anime's pacing might work. If the manga/LN series is complete or almost complete (like with Toradora), it's more likely that the anime will tell the complete story. And of course, I'm more likely to dive into slice-of-life or comedy anime regardless of how much they adapt the source, since those tend to be quite relaxed in how they tell their stories.

To sum it up, one of the many reasons I like watching anime is that I usually know what I'm getting.
That's a really important point that hasn't been brought up yet and I can say I agree. It's also the reason why I tend to also enjoy plenty of British shows as well: a season tells a story. It may leave some small plot threats open but it always provides a clear start and a clear finish. You just don't get what happened to Firefly, for example, where the TV show ends mid-season on a cliffhanger that never got resolved (but that show had quite a few problems ).

Anime is usually funded with the expectation that a preset number of episodes will be done and the story is written to fit within that limitation (even split-cours since those are very likely budgeted as such from the start) while American TV is written almost like the show will never finish. It's draining and leaves me very uninterested in actually picking up a show and get attached to the characters (a big part of why I enjoy fiction: characters and their stories).
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Old 2014-01-24, 00:52   Link #60
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Well, "actual beginning and end" was brought up a few times, but not discussed in detail. That said, that is definitely one of the biggest reasons why I prefer anime to American TV. Of course there are 200-ep shonens, but those are very rare and far between compared to American TV where multi-season strings of episodes without any real ending are the norm.
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