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Old 2014-01-25, 12:33   Link #61
Sackett
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So to sum up what I've seen so far.

Reasons people like anime:
1: Anime tells "better" stories
2: Anime usually has a beginning, middle, and end, it sets out to tell a complete story.

Interesting that so little of the popularity has to do with the medium.
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Old 2014-01-25, 13:05   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
So to sum up what I've seen so far.

Reasons people like anime:
1: Anime tells "better" stories
2: Anime usually has a beginning, middle, and end, it sets out to tell a complete story.

Interesting that so little of the popularity has to do with the medium.
I would seem that way but I think there's a bit of bias to this thread since those two factors stand out more from other forms of media than the medium itself. That means that people are more likely to point out how the stories are clearly defined and more interesting to them than the fact that people like Makoto Shinkai or Akiyuki Shinbo exist with their particular styles.
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Old 2014-01-26, 22:34   Link #63
Sackett
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???

I would think the "bias" would go the other direction, since obviously the most different thing about anime from other media is that it is animated. (Especially since most of the comparisons were to live action TV).
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Old 2014-01-27, 07:41   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
So to sum up what I've seen so far.

Reasons people like anime:
1: Anime tells "better" stories
2: Anime usually has a beginning, middle, and end, it sets out to tell a complete story.

Interesting that so little of the popularity has to do with the medium.
I always looked at a anime as the movie deal to a manga artist or light novelist. And some of the stuff the original creators come up with is fantastic and different. Then there are those shows which are the original work of a studio and they can be just as good if not better.

Sure we can luck out some seasons and it just seems like every show is just trying to fill the same slice of life, school band, animated adaption of a VN or combination but we're at times graced by works that truly leave a mark.

I'll do some quick examples off the top of my head.

Gurren Lagann will always be one of those medium defining shows for me. The over the top action, the crazy cast and a story bigger than the universe, literally. I just don't think any other medium would be able to capture that same childish glee that fill my heart as I watched it.

Full Metal Panic! was the anime that hooked me. I had originally watched the odd anime such as Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 and NGE on SBS growing up but it wasn't until I was looking for inspiration for my Tau Crisis Suits did I discover FMP!

FMP! was a show of many firsts of me for things I hadn't seen until anime and I considered myself a pretty varied person in terms of movies and television shows I would watch.

I just loved it and I think the hobby of anime is encompassed by the search of trying to find the next show that just blows you away. And more often than not its in a show that you only watched on a whim or you would have otherwise dismissed.
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Old 2014-01-27, 16:19   Link #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
???

I would think the "bias" would go the other direction, since obviously the most different thing about anime from other media is that it is animated. (Especially since most of the comparisons were to live action TV).
I'm just saying that this crowd in particular is biased to not notice that particular fact as much. Once people get over the fact that the presentation is different it's the similarities that will get the most scrutiny.
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Old 2014-01-27, 17:06   Link #66
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You can't simply generalise anime as whole. Depending on genre and target audience, you can get completely different set of tropes and "this crowd" watch anime for years (most of us) which in the end lead to pick most general common elements it can be found and liked.

If you want more concrete answers you can ask more specificly as well.

Last edited by Tenzen12; 2014-01-27 at 17:20.
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Old 2014-01-27, 17:14   Link #67
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Well, like I said way back on Page 1, I've always been a lover of animation in general. This is basically because I like things in bright, bold colors, and also because I like watching a narrative unfold before me in motion.

However, this isn't exclusive to anime, or even animation, per se. Video games often have this as well, so maybe that's why the anime medium format itself isn't getting much attention on this thread?

I mean, there's really not that much difference between a great number of JRPGs and a fantasy/action-oriented anime. The only major difference is that one is at least somewhat interactive, and the other is purely passive entertainment (i.e. you just watch it).

Many recent/modern JRPGs are very character-oriented and story-oriented and have loads of cutscenes and tend to be "on-rails".
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Old 2014-01-27, 17:21   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, like I said way back on Page 1, I've always been a lover of animation in general. This is basically because I like things in bright, bold colors, and also because I like watching a narrative unfold before me in motion.

However, this isn't exclusive to anime, or even animation, per se. Video games often have this as well, so maybe that's why the anime medium format itself isn't getting much attention on this thread?

I mean, there's really not that much difference between a great number of JRPGs and a fantasy/action-oriented anime. The only major difference is that one is at least somewhat interactive, and the other is purely passive entertainment (i.e. you just watch it).

Many recent/modern JRPGs are very character-oriented and story-oriented and have loads of cutscenes and tend to be "on-rails".
You're absolutely right. Many modern JRPGs would make pretty darn good shows. Stuff like the "Tales of" series are better than many of the usual anime fare. It's kind of surprising that there aren't much good adaptations of the genre. I'm guessing that length is mostly to blame.
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Old 2014-01-27, 17:40   Link #69
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
You're absolutely right. Many modern JRPGs would make pretty darn good shows. Stuff like the "Tales of" series are better than many of the usual anime fare. It's kind of surprising that there aren't much good adaptations of the genre. I'm guessing that length is mostly to blame.
Yeah, length is probably the main reason why. To properly adapt one of the "Tales of" games (and not just do a few OVA episodes of it, which I've seen myself), you're talking at least two cours worth of anime episodes. At least.
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Old 2014-01-27, 19:53   Link #70
LightDragonman
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So since you guys have all given really good reasons for liking anime, how would you respond to people like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WEFIp6GYT0
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Old 2014-01-27, 20:04   Link #71
Tenzen12
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His point is animation in anime mostly suck. And he is not wrong on that acount. He might be wrong in other things but these doesn't realy metter as whole video is just about how is japan animation technicaly inferior to western. I don't think anyone here claimed he loves anime for fluent animation yet...


PS: In his second entry he claimed Evangelion sucks. Three times. if nothing else He get lot of plus points from me for it.

Last edited by Tenzen12; 2014-01-27 at 20:44.
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Old 2014-01-28, 01:34   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
???

I would think the "bias" would go the other direction, since obviously the most different thing about anime from other media is that it is animated. (Especially since most of the comparisons were to live action TV).
Even if you compare them to other animated forms, they'll most likely still stand out.
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Old 2014-01-28, 02:30   Link #73
LightDragonman
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Personally, I feel that anime can indeed have really fluid animation rivalling or even exceeding that seen in Western animation. It just depends on where you're looking.

But yeah, for me, while the technicals of animation are cool and all, the reason I prefer anime is the story and characters. I just feel that anime goes much more mature and thought-provoking than Western animation, and I find myself getting more emotionally invested in them as a result. To e, that beats fluidity of movement any day.
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Old 2014-01-28, 02:56   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
So to sum up what I've seen so far.

Reasons people like anime:
1: Anime tells "better" stories
2: Anime usually has a beginning, middle, and end, it sets out to tell a complete story.

Interesting that so little of the popularity has to do with the medium.
I'd say 1 is a load of bollocks. When like more than half of the medium resorts to celebration (not just tolerance, but actual celebration/promotion) of elements like sexualised underage girls (I'm talking lolis), incest, other morally questionable features or a combination of all three, I really doubt that anime tells "better" stories. Sure, there is more potential in that anime can pretty much do any genre and make it work if they tried, but unfortunately majority of the time it is just that - potential.

This is leaving aside the issue that more and more anime these days are being adapted from light novels, which most of them to be frank have terrible writing akin to fan-fiction level quality, or the industry general obsession over moe. I don't hate moe by means, in fact I do quite like it if it's appropriate, but I mean do we really need these moeified or cute designs for say grim dark/more serious series? It seems that even the more darker/serious any are resorting to cute character designs (which don't match the series' tone) just to have a chance of appealing to the bluray/dvd purchasing crowd (unfortunately, most of the time they still fail).

As for 2, debatable. I think anime has the beginning and middle down pat, but endings are a mixed bag. A lot of the time I see rushed endings either because they spent too much time faffing about in the already limited amount of episodes they had (particularly 1 cour shows) or they try to jam in too much given the premise of the shows (e.g. 2+ cour shows that were given 1 cour treatment). Is this worse than the American TV model where they end every season on a cliffhanger of some sort? I don't know. Depends on the show and the ending to me.

-----------------------------

As for why I like anime, well I like animation in general and it happens that Japanese animation is a large part of it. I definitely prefer anime over american cartoons which are pretty much all satirical comedies one way or another of various quality, but I can't say the same for the film side of things. Pixar and Disney have released some amazing animated movies in recent times. For example, I watched Frozen at the end of last year, and that was better than any anime (TV or film) I watched in 2013 by a landslide except for maybe Hosoda's Wolf Children, which comes reasonably close. No recent Ghibli offering has jack squat on that when it comes to pure family-friendly, heartwarming entertainment that brings out the kid inside you as well as kids themselves enjoying it.

I do however have a soft spot for 2D animation which is a large reason why I still stick with anime. There's something a little offputting about 3D animation, though I won't surely judge something negatively just because it's 3D.
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Old 2014-01-28, 04:02   Link #75
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Say, when did the term "moe" became populized? Looking back at a decade more ago, something cute like Sakura (Cardcaptor Sakura) or Hikaru (Magic Knight Rayearth) still don't carry in themself the true definition of Moe. Or more exactly, they have an archertype, but not that "stocky".

And, people said that the people's standard is getting higher and higher, but is it true?
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Old 2014-01-28, 04:23   Link #76
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because i already watch anime since i'm 7.
it became my habit till now i'm already 23.
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Old 2014-01-28, 06:29   Link #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
Say, when did the term "moe" became populized? Looking back at a decade more ago, something cute like Sakura (Cardcaptor Sakura) or Hikaru (Magic Knight Rayearth) still don't carry in themself the true definition of Moe. Or more exactly, they have an archertype, but not that "stocky".
Sakura won the first saimoe tournament in 2002 , so the term was already popular in japan back then and Sakura was very much considered moe.

In fact it was popular enough for pony canyon to create a distribution label called "m.o.e" as a reference to "moe" in 2001 and publish a series of anime where cute girls were the attraction, none of them are really remembered today.

You mentioned Rayearth, while in the west the term moe hadn't caught on yet in 1999 I found it interesting that the expression "sugar level" was being used to reference shows like Magic Knight Rayearth Yosei Hime Ren and Dragon Half by ANN in its 1999 spring preview , would moe be used instead today?

The first reference to moe I could find on ANN is from this november 2004 review

TL;DR…
 
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Just a few months later in april 2005 ANN published this article.
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Old 2014-01-28, 06:45   Link #78
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Oh great! My favorite girl is the moe champion of champions! But isn't it me, but Sakura herself defined Magical Girl-archertype?

Also, could something from the age of Tokyo Mew Mew could be defined as "Moe"?

Back to the topic, I think Pocari raised a good idea back there: The length of anime and America sitcom. I think it's partly because, like I said in the "Advertising in Anime" threat, it's rare to insert really big brand name in Anime, unlike Sitcom where every scene is money.
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Old 2014-01-28, 16:11   Link #79
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Sakura won the first saimoe tournament in 2002 , so the term was already popular in japan back then and Sakura was very much considered moe.

In fact it was popular enough for pony canyon to create a distribution label called "m.o.e" as a reference to "moe" in 2001 and publish a series of anime where cute girls were the attraction, none of them are really remembered today.

You mentioned Rayearth, while in the west the term moe hadn't caught on yet in 1999 I found it interesting that the expression "sugar level" was being used to reference shows like Magic Knight Rayearth Yosei Hime Ren and Dragon Half by ANN in its 1999 spring preview , would moe be used instead today?

The first reference to moe I could find on ANN is from this november 2004 review


Just a few months later in april 2005 ANN published this article.
It's interesting to compare the Saimoe result with Pony Canyon's lineup... I guess the term was being applied to everything from regular cute stuff to crass commercial exploitation more than a decade ago. No where the debate over what it is has always been so torturous.
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Old 2014-01-28, 17:49   Link #80
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It's hard for me to put my finger on it. I think I like the stereotypical anime characters better than the stereotypical American characters. I grew up in Austria in the 70ies of the last century, and my childhood cartoons were dominated by America and Japan. I sort of grew out of the American cartoons (or to be more precise 2/3 of it: Disney and Hanna Baberra; I'm still fond of Warner), but I stuck with anime. It's not that I hate American cartoons, and good stuff is good stuff wherever it comes from. It's just that the nostalgic feeling remains with anime.

Now, a lot of the shows I'm watching do not really feel like that (all the ecchi-saturated stuff, for instance). But the hunch I have is that there's something in the culture behind anime that touches something in me. But it's hard to pin-point what it is. I think it has someting to do with "more respect even for minor characters". Although that's certainly not true for all shows, there may be some sort of focus.

Also, somehow anime often manages to bypass my cynicism. It can be cheesy as hell and I won't mind. A lot of my favourites are totally idealised, "safe" shows: Kimi ni Todoke, Ichigo Marshmallow, Usagi Drop... Last season's Gingitsune is a perfect example of that. Then there are shows that always hover close to the edge, like Tamayura - really sweet and lovable, but my cynicism is snarling from just across the border.

Maybe it's a certain sense of self-awareness that makes me like shows. An example would be the over-the-top optimisim of Mushibugyou's main character. By my personality, I should be loathing him, and yet his charm just disarms me. That almost never heppens with anything outside anime.
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