AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > One Piece

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2014-02-24, 16:27   Link #61
ZGoten
Custom User Title
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Send a message via ICQ to ZGoten
Well, this is not the debate I had in mind, but I do have something to say regarding this topic. You can debate all you want about the Vergo fight. In the end, it was a draw. The only fight Sanji "lost" was the one against Doflamingo. Neither Franky or Luffy have fought an opponent of that level in the New World, yet. In fact, Franky's opponents have been weaklings so far. Zoro did have a tiny skirmish with Fujitora, but you can't really call that a fight and hence shouldn't draw any conclusions from it. Long story short: Sanji is still very much comparable to Zoro and Luffy in strength and probably still above Franky.
__________________
Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see with both eyes.
ZGoten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 16:30   Link #62
Rainbowman
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 1431 Highland Drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Oh, how I'd love to join the Moria discussion..... but I'm not in the mood to tear out my hair over power level arguments at the moment.



Anyway, nearly forgot to bring this up, but the cover for volume 73 was revealed! Credit goes to Redon from AP for the pic:





^Now THAT'S an epic cover! The only thing I find disappointing is that Caesar is partially obscured by Dofla's leg..... oh well. Hopefully, the accompanying SBS will also prove to be more substantial than the usual heaps of dick jokes!
Can't wait to comment the SBS in this volume.
Rainbowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 16:45   Link #63
grey_1960
Detective Kate Beckett
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
Well, this is not the debate I had in mind, but I do have something to say regarding this topic. You can debate all you want about the Vergo fight. In the end, it was a draw. The only fight Sanji "lost" was the one against Doflamingo. Neither Franky or Luffy have fought an opponent of that level in the New World, yet. In fact, Franky's opponents have been weaklings so far. Zoro did have a tiny skirmish with Fujitora, but you can't really call that a fight and hence shouldn't draw any conclusions from it. Long story short: Sanji is still very much comparable to Zoro and Luffy in strength and probably still above Franky.
Performance
With the way Sanji going I doubt he is near Luffy and Zoro. Second I don't think the Vergo vs. Sanji can be seen has a draw. If it were Oda would have left the crack in Sanji's leg out of the fight. Then I would agree with you. Also sorry if this is not what you had in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Zoro will have a higher bounty than Luffy? What makes you think that the marines think of him as a greater threat than Luffy? I don't see what he is able to do in the near future, that would overshadow Luffy's actions in EL, ID and MF.
Big Leagues
Admiral Fujitori got to see first hand what Zoro was capable of at the coliseum. Admiral Fujitori is not just any marine. He is an Admiral. His opinion of Zoro will not be overlooked has easily has lower ranks. Second what do you think Fleet Admiral Akainu will realize if Admiral Fujitori can not subdue the straw hats let alone one pirate hunter?
grey_1960 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 16:50   Link #64
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^Big Leagues
Admiral Fujitori got to see first hand what Zoro was capable of at the coliseum. Admiral Fujitori is not just any marine. He is an Admiral and last time I recall Admiral are the WG most powerful weapons. His opinion of Zoro will not be overlooked has easily has lower ranks. Second what do you think Fleet Admiral Akainu will realize if Admiral Fujitori can not subdue the straw hats let alone one pirate hunter?
I doubt though that this would be enough to overshadow Luffy's actions in the past AND the fact that he is Dragon's son.

Also there is the possibility, that Luffy takes down Doflamingo. Zoro's only chance to get a higher bounty than Luffy, would probably be to actually defeat Fujitora, which I doubt will happen, as I'd simply go and say that Fujitora is probably the strongest person on Dressrosa right now.
__________________
Due to certain circumstances I am now the "Imouto Instructor"
GreyZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:02   Link #65
grey_1960
Detective Kate Beckett
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
^
Zoro does not need to take an admiral down. Second I don't believe he can. Third all he has to do is hold Admiral off and keep him from interfering in crucial fights and completing his mission.

Chapter 682 page 8 proves that Sanji vs. Vergo was never a draw.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2014-02-24 at 17:22. Reason: edited wrong box
grey_1960 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:08   Link #66
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
I am still refering to the following you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
[...]If the results are in [Franky's] favor after this factory fight his bounty will be the third highest then Luffy, finally Zoro's being the highest.
"Holding off an admiral" is not enough to get past Luffy's bounty.
__________________
Due to certain circumstances I am now the "Imouto Instructor"
GreyZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:19   Link #67
paradox13
zzz
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to paradox13
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^
You compare past and the present like they are the same. They aren't, also you can't ignore Sanji's performance. Second whats the point of showing Sanji's cracked leg to the reader if its just battle damage? Was Oda trying to prove a point? To me its no coincidence with Vergo and Daflamingo case that Sanji was shown to be weaker. Look at Franky he is undefeated right now. Zoro and Luffy also fall in that category(Undefeated). Why has Oda not shown their limits or them struggling? You can argue for Sanji all you want but Franky, Zoro, and Luffy have all shown progress. Zoro most of all. Third look at the story arcs before and after the timeskip. The archs after the time skip have gotten more complex and serious then normal arcs two years ago. This is more then just random adventure and the enemies they are fighting are the people we been hearing so much about two years ago but never seeing until sabaody and beyond.
Oh no not this again.

Banging your head against the wall to try and prove that Franky is stronger than Sanji and Zoro will have a higher bounty than Luffy.

Oh man.

Some people never give up. What jokes.
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
paradox13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:20   Link #68
grey_1960
Detective Kate Beckett
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
I am still refering to the following you said:


"Holding off an admiral" is not enough to get past Luffy's bounty.
^
That is only if you do not realize the significant of this action. Think about it, holding off an admiral and keeping him from doing his job. Rayleigh did that same exact thing in Saboady look what he achieved. You claim he is the strongest one in Dresrosa. That will only make Zoro's reputation even greater if he does it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Oh no not this again.

Banging your head against the wall to try and prove that Franky is stronger than Sanji and Zoro will have a higher bounty than Luffy.

Oh man.

Some people never give up. What jokes.
Its only a joke if you can't see were the evidence is leading
Say what you will but the evidence is getting stronger. If Franky defeats Vice Admiral Bastille then he will have done what Sanji could not have done to Vice Admiral Vergo.
grey_1960 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:26   Link #69
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^
That is only if you do not realize the significant of this action. Think about it, holding off an admiral and keeping him from doing his job. Rayleigh did that same exact thing in Saboady look what he achieved. You claim he is the strongest one in Dresrosa. That will only make Zoro's reputation even greater if he does it.
Still, I don't see it as enough to get more than 400 mio Berry. He also has no father who is called Dragon. And you make it sound like Luffy is just waiting on the sidelines for his bounty to be bested by his crew... which he won't let happen.
__________________
Due to certain circumstances I am now the "Imouto Instructor"
GreyZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:28   Link #70
noktown
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^
You compare past and the present like they are the same.
What ?I was merely pointing out that a brief encounter does not tell us anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^
They aren't, also you can't ignore Sanji's performance. Second whats the point of showing Sanji's cracked leg to the reader if its just battle damage? Was Oda trying to prove a point?
Vergo is a Vice Admiral,and one of the strongest men in Flamingo's crew,a moment before he was kicked by Sanji through a wall...of course I didn't expect him to go down that easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
To me its no coincidence with Vergo and Daflamingo case that Sanji was shown to be weaker. Look at Franky he is undefeated right now.
You're comparing Franky's growth against Flamingo's fodder officers,as I'm sure all of them will fall easily,versus Sanji's supposed downgrade against an Elite Officer,who happens to be a Vice Admiral too ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Zoro and Luffy also fall in that category(Undefeated). Why has Oda not shown their limits or them struggling? You can argue for Sanji all you want but Franky, Zoro, and Luffy have all shown progress. Zoro most of all. Third look at the story arcs before and after the timeskip. The archs after the time skip have gotten more complex and serious then normal arcs two years ago. This is more then just random adventure and the enemies they are fighting are the people we been hearing so much about two years ago but never seeing until sabaody and beyond.
Where was Sanji at his limits ?And didn't Caesar make Luffy faint during their first encounter ?What will be your excuse ?He didn't know his DF,Caesar caught him by surprise ?Well guess what...so did Flamingo,Sanji doesn't know anything about Flamingo's power and only during this encounter Flamingo's devil fruit was officially confirmed to the reader.

What Progress did Zoro show ?We have barely seen the guy fighting.He KO'd a boss fishman like all of them,defeated Monet(why am I not surprised she's an officer only ?) and took a beating from Fujitora ?That's some progress alright.Although I'm sure he's a monster,so far we haven't see anything serious.

Franky,defeated 3 officers...ok....


My point is : I'm not defending Sanji or bashing anyone else in the crew,I'm just saying that none of them had any serious fights,so it's too early to judge anyone in the crew,so far they have shown flashy moves that look good against fodder.
noktown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:30   Link #71
grey_1960
Detective Kate Beckett
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Still, I don't see it as enough to get more than 400 mio Berry. He also has no father who is called Dragon. And you make it sound like Luffy is just waiting on the sidelines for his bounty to be bested by his crew... which he won't let happen.
^
Zoro doesn't need somone else name to make him famous. Second I am thinking at least 600 or 700 million Bellie. Luffy's will be 10 million bellies lower then what ever Zoro makes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noktown View Post
What ?I was merely pointing out that a brief encounter does not tell us anything.

Vergo is a Vice Admiral,and one of the strongest men in Flamingo's crew,a moment before he was kicked by Sanji through a wall...of course I didn't expect him to go down that easily.

You're comparing Franky's growth against Flamingo's fodder officers,as I'm sure all of them will fall easily,versus Sanji's supposed downgrade against an Elite Officer,who happens to be a Vice Admiral too ?

Where was Sanji at his limits ?And didn't Caesar make Luffy faint during their first encounter ?What will be your excuse ?He didn't know his DF,Caesar caught him by surprise ?Well guess what...so did Flamingo,Sanji doesn't know anything about Flamingo's power and only during this encounter Flamingo's devil fruit was officially confirmed to the reader.

What Progress did Zoro show ?We have barely seen the guy fighting.He KO'd a boss fishman like all of them,defeated Monet(why am I not surprised she's an officer only ?) and took a beating from Fujitora ?That's some progress alright.Although I'm sure he's a monster,so far we haven't see anything serious.

Franky,defeated 3 officers...ok....


My point is : I'm not defending Sanji or bashing anyone else in the crew,I'm just saying that none of them had any serious fights,so it's too early to judge anyone in the crew,so far they have shown flashy moves that look good against fodder.
The Present
Once Franky beats Vice Admiral Bastille it won't be just Daflamingo's fodder he can add to the list. Has for Sanji's limit Chapter 682 page 8. Zoro's progress can be seen on Chapter 730 8 and 9 where Admiral fujitori complements Zoro's counter attack.
grey_1960 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:35   Link #72
ZGoten
Custom User Title
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Send a message via ICQ to ZGoten
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^Chapter 682 page 8 proves that Sanji vs. Vergo was never a draw.
No, it doesn't. It proves that Vergo did damage, but you don't win a fight simply because you inflict damage. Both Sanji and Vergo walked away from the battle, well in shape to keep on fighting. It's like Boxer A gets one good hit in on Boxer B during the first of twelve rounds, and then the fight is cancelled due to a fire in the building. Boxer A doesn't win the match simply because he did more damage while the fight lasted. That's not how it works. You might say that his shown performance was better for the duration, but that doesn't make it a win.
__________________
Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see with both eyes.
ZGoten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:37   Link #73
noktown
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
^
Zoro doesn't need somone else name to make him famous. Second I am thinking at least 600 or 700 million Bellie. Luffy's will be 10 million bellies lower then what ever Zoro makes.
Whitemoon,is that you ?

Last edited by noktown; 2014-02-24 at 17:50.
noktown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:47   Link #74
grey_1960
Detective Kate Beckett
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
No, it doesn't. It proves that Vergo did damage, but you don't win a fight simply because you inflict damage. Both Sanji and Vergo walked away from the battle, well in shape to keep on fighting. It's like Boxer A gets one good hit in on Boxer B during the first of twelve rounds, and then the fight is cancelled due to a fire in the building. Boxer A doesn't win the match simply because he did more damage while the fight lasted. That's not how it works. You might say that his shown performance was better for the duration, but that doesn't make it a win.
Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see with both eyes.
On chapter 682 page 8 those were Sanji's words not mine. You can create all the scenario or examples you want but it will never cover the facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noktown View Post
Whitemoon,is that you ?
Pseudo Argument or Real Argument?
I am presenting evidence in my arguments with all of you, right?
grey_1960 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 17:56   Link #75
noktown
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
[
Pseudo Argument or Real Argument?
I am presenting evidence in my arguments with all of you, right?
Flawless evidence,Sanji cracked a bone against a Vice Admiral makes him a trash,Zoro and Kinemon both at the same time taking a beating from Admiral is progress.

You win.I think the Sea King that bit Shanks's hand off is stronger than Shanks because I mean it bit his whole hand off.I think I'm done for today,clearly I'm not in your league.
noktown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 18:00   Link #76
ZGoten
Custom User Title
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Age: 24
Send a message via ICQ to ZGoten
Yes, those are Sanji's words in that chapter, but your words are what I was addressing, because what you said was wrong. The example I gave you is a fitting analogy, not covering, but supporting the facts. It's like you don't know what victory means. What goal did Vergo take away from that fight? None. He didn't take out Tashigi and he didn't take out Sanji. He was just wasting time. If anyone, Sanji would be the victor, because he managed to achieve his goal of saving Tashigi. But since we're leaving her out of the equation, it's a draw.
__________________
Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see with both eyes.
ZGoten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 18:02   Link #77
paradox13
zzz
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to paradox13
Quote:
Originally Posted by noktown View Post
Whitemoon,is that you ?
That explains it.
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
paradox13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 18:22   Link #78
grey_1960
Detective Kate Beckett
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Quote:
Originally Posted by noktown View Post
Flawless evidence,Sanji cracked a bone against a Vice Admiral makes him a trash,Zoro and Kinemon both at the same time taking a beating from Admiral is progress.

You win.I think the Sea King that bit Shanks's hand off is stronger than Shanks because I mean it bit his whole hand off.I think I'm done for today,clearly I'm not in your league.
Whitemoon is that you?
If you want to pull a whitemoon that fine. But don't be angry at me because of the results of Sanji's fights with Daflamingo and Vergo. Oda is the one doing the writing not me. Second I don't know about Kinemon but I thought Zoro did very well with Admiral Fujitori. Getting a compliment from an admiral is not bad after two years of training and ass kicking from Kizaru.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
That explains it.
I like you man
But you need to get in the thick of the fight instead of riding off other peoples comment. Everybody else is fighting for their own interpretation of the story. You should to if you truly believe my analysis of Franky is not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
Yes, those are Sanji's words in that chapter, but your words are what I was addressing, because what you said was wrong. The example I gave you is a fitting analogy, not covering, but supporting the facts. It's like you don't know what victory means. What goal did Vergo take away from that fight? None. He didn't take out Tashigi and he didn't take out Sanji. He was just wasting time. If anyone, Sanji would be the victor, because he managed to achieve his goal of saving Tashigi. But since we're leaving her out of the equation, it's a draw.
Writing on the Wall
Those words you just confirmed that are Sanji's words. They were words of doubt not confidence. To me they seemed very negative like something bad would have happened to him if the fight with Vergo was prolonged. Second if that fight had gone on any longer I personally think Sanji would have died along with Tashiga and the marines. With Law being in the SAD room, it drew Vergo away. Which means Sanji was saved by Law twice.

Finally
I don't hate sanji. I am kinda disappointed with how Sanji(and Smoker) were written. I personally thought Sanji would be like Zoro but that was not to be. I also thought Smoker would be a very high level Vice Admiral (Like in between Buster call Vice admiral and Garp Vice admiral) but to my disappointment that was not true. But I won't turn away from evidence because the results are not what I want.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2014-02-24 at 18:36.
grey_1960 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 18:41   Link #79
noktown
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Whitemoon is that you?
If you want to pull a whitemoon that fine. But don't be angry at me because of the results of Sanji's fights with Daflamingo and Vergo. Oda is the one doing the writing not me. Second I don't know about Kinemon but I thought Zoro did very well with Admiral Fujitori. Getting a compliment from an admiral is not bad after two years of training and ass kicking from Kizaru.
You had me going there for a sec,thank God Sanji's actually worth something in Oda's version of One Piece.

Overall,I'm just fooling around,no cruel intentions,I find it funny how you made a conclusive judgment against Sanji from nothing,but pure speculation.
noktown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-24, 19:19   Link #80
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
(in-universe) Known History of Monkey D. Luffy:
Luffy has beaten 2 Shichibukai (neither known per newspapers, but it affected his bounty at least once), "officially" won against the best CP9 agent in the history of the world who was respected and feard by many vice-admirals, while "officially" declaring war on the WG and forcing the commander of Ennies Lobby to use the Buster Call, which didn't help in capturing the SH crew and instead just caused EL to be reduced to ashes, was "officially" declared to be the direct descendant (son) of the Revolutionary Dragon, is infamous enough to be mentioned by the 5 elders, is one of the mysterious "D", managed to "somehow" infiltrate Imped Down, causing together with "Buggy the Clown" and "Ivankov the revolutionary" a riot that many took advantage off to escape or be freed by others (blackbeard helping the lvl6 prisoners), among the people who escaped, two former Shichibukai were included, then together with many of the escaped prisoners, Luffy helped the Whitebeard pirates to free Ace, while avoiding the 3 Admirals and even getting past his grandfather, the legendary marine Garp! He succeeds in freeing Ace, however both Whitebeard and Ace fall in the end and Luffy gets critically wounded by Admiral Akainu, but still survives and escapes. A few days later Luffy returns to Marineford together with "Jinbei", the former Shichibukai and the 2nd mate of Gold Roger "Dark King Rayleigh" to perform a "burial ceremony" for Luffy's fallen step-brother "Ace the Fire Fist", which at the same time humilated the marines defending it. Then he disappears for 2 years and reappears again in Shabondy, only to disappear again...........

Current Bounty: 400 million


(in-universe) Known History of Ronoa Zoro:
Was known in East Blue as the infamous "Pirate Hunter Zoro", but decides to turn to piracy instead and joins the "Straw Hat Crew". His first major accomplishment that he was recognised for was the "Massacre of Whiskey Peak" and taking down the best Agent of the Shichibukai "Crocodile". His next (probably) known accomplishment was defeating the CP9 Agent Kaku, who was the 2nd strongest member of the current CP9 at that time. He was also assisting Monkey D. Luffy in the assault on Enies Lobby in general, but was not present in the latter attacks of Luffy in Impel Down and Marineford. Zoro was refered to by marines as "Straw Hat Luffy's underling". As with Luffy, Zoro disappeard for 2 years until the Straw Hat Crew resurfaced again in Shabondy Archipelago.

Current Bounty: 120 million


Ok... and now let us add what you, grey_1960, speculate happens next:

Luffy defeats Doflamingo, Luffy's Bounty rises from 400 million to 640 million.
Zoro buys a bit time against Fujitora and then manages to escape, Zoro's bounty rises from 120 million to 650 million.

You seriously want to say THAT?


Not to mention that Law managed to do that already... and he actually even stood his ground against BOTH Fujitora and Doflamingo! Law's new bounty, after having defected from the Shichibukai should be over 1 billion then, according to you!
__________________
Due to certain circumstances I am now the "Imouto Instructor"

Last edited by GreyZone; 2014-02-24 at 19:45.
GreyZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.