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View Poll Results: Log Horizon - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 6 14.29%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 14 33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 26.19%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 11.90%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 7.14%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 4.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 2.38%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2014-03-02, 09:45   Link #81
FlareKnight
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I dunno, I always thought that Minori's crush is mostly a girly crush you'd expect from a MIDDLE SCHOOLER. Those are not exactly the most discerning people. As for Akatsuki, she is at disadvantage for playing the ninja act so long that it's hard for Shiroe to take the hint. It doesn't help that Shiroe is a socially awkward nerd both irl and in game.
Certainly seems like social issues are plaguing both Shiroe and Akatsuki. She's not the chattiest person to begin with. Probably reflected pretty well in her original game choice of assassin. Feels like she'll need to be the one to work herself out of the ninja-master situation that she mostly created. She's kind of had to stay in that role in order to create this situation at all. Certainly hints early about feelings on either side with her and Shiroe that kind of got lost in all the major arcs that we dove into. Shiroe is in a similar spot when it comes to this kind of social situation, but does feel like Akatsuki has to be the one to clearly step over the line created first.

Certainly don't feel like Minori has a huge chance here. She's got the advantage of being more forward, but a lot to overcome if only in changing how she's perceived. Early on she and Touya were looked at as kids. Are some similarities to Shiroe (at least in battle positioning) that can give her a boost, but just feeling like her emotions are just being used for the sake of drama.
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Old 2014-03-02, 10:26   Link #82
ellessarr
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Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
Has he ever actually flirted with Minori?
Not that i can remember.
And he treats Akatsuki like an equal, instead of as a child.
But i don't think he actually flirts.

He is well mannered, thoughtful and does not make social blunders like lot of protagonists do (because he is not a hotheaded kid like many protagonists are), but i don't really see him as someone who has shown any actual skill in social situations outside of scheming and political manipulation.
by the bold show who you recognize some of shiroe acts as flirt.

call a girl to dance is not "something a awkward person active can do", keep saying who she is "special" or who he only does the things cuz she is with him and things like that are "flirting at last is what i learned about "flirt", i'm not talk about "hotheaded" we have also the shy and the dense type where their are more like "awkward cuz their dont actively does things, awkward peoples are most of the times ranter "passive" or completly insecure about what to do or does the things in a horrible way, not all that gentleman as he does, shiroe not even close to be a "social awkward" person neither with girls neither with politics at last not in the way you are trying to portrait him.

he being aware of being in a "date with 2 girls" is more than enough to show who he actually know about that things, his relationship with akatsuki also show this, he is "too much perfect" for a awkward person.
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Old 2014-03-02, 10:54   Link #83
J4n1
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
by the bold show who you recognize some of shiroe acts as flirt.

call a girl to dance is not "something a awkward person active can do", keep saying who she is "special" or who he only does the things cuz she is with him and things like that are "flirting at last is what i learned about "flirt", i'm not talk about "hotheaded" we have also the shy and the dense type where their are more like "awkward cuz their dont actively does things, awkward peoples are most of the times ranter "passive" or completly insecure about what to do or does the things in a horrible way, not all that gentleman as he does, shiroe not even close to be a "social awkward" person neither with girls neither with politics at last not in the way you are trying to portrait him.

he being aware of being in a "date with 2 girls" is more than enough to show who he actually know about that things, his relationship with akatsuki also show this, he is "too much perfect" for a awkward person.
Ok, i'm having some difficulty following you. (i assume English is not your first language?)
Dancing, is not flirting, people dance at dance parties, sometimes because it they like the person dancing, sometimes because they like dancing, and sometimes because the other person likes dancing (and sometimes because dancing is required of them, ie. Shiroe and Henrietta).
I did not see that as Shiroe flirting, i saw it as him thinking Akatsuki might like to dance (and probably not actually opposed to dancing himself), and her being too shy to do it in front of crowd (and he would be right in both accounts).

And Shiroe is a sorcerer, a support class, he needs someone to take brunt of fighting (ie. Akatsuki), he is also a political mastermind, and he needs information (spies, ie. Akatsuki), he also needs friends to give him emmotional stability when he does not know if what he is doing is right, or someone to watch his back when he needs people kept at length (ie. bridge scene).

Those were not words of a man flirting, but someone being thankful of a friends presence and support.

And i'm not sure i have ever said Shiroe as socially awkward (though he is, in some ways), and i don't really follow why you keep bringing that up.
Ability to notice people are in love with you has nothing to do with social awkwardness, even less so if the people in question themselves are not aware of it (Minori), or are trying to conceal it (Akatsuki), just because he is able to recognize himself being in a horrifyingly cliche anime romance trope (accidental date with 2 women) does not make him somekind of social butterfly or Casanova (if anything, that he managed to end into it without noticing before hand makes him pretty oblivious).
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Old 2014-03-02, 11:04   Link #84
ellessarr
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Ok, i'm having some difficulty following you. (i assume English is not your first language?)
Dancing, is not flirting, people dance at dance parties, sometimes because it they like the person dancing, sometimes because they like dancing, and sometimes because the other person likes dancing (and sometimes because dancing is required of them, ie. Shiroe and Henrietta).
I did not see that as Shiroe flirting, i saw it as him thinking Akatsuki might like to dance (and probably not actually opposed to dancing himself), and her being too shy to do it in front of crowd (and he would be right in both accounts).

And Shiroe is a sorcerer, a support class, he needs someone to take brunt of fighting (ie. Akatsuki), he is also a political mastermind, and he needs information (spies, ie. Akatsuki), he also needs friends to give him emmotional stability when he does not know if what he is doing is right, or someone to watch his back when he needs people kept at length (ie. bridge scene).

Those were not words of a man flirting, but someone being thankful of a friends presence and support.

And i'm not sure i have ever said Shiroe as socially awkward (though he is, in some ways), and i don't really follow why you keep bringing that up.
Ability to notice people are in love with you has nothing to do with social awkwardness, even less so if the people in question themselves are not aware of it (Minori), or are trying to conceal it (Akatsuki), just because he is able to recognize himself being in a horrifyingly cliche anime romance trope (accidental date with 2 women) does not make him somekind of social butterfly or Casanova (if anything, that he managed to end into it without noticing before hand makes him pretty oblivious).
not the way he invited her, well maybe is a cultural difference between you and me but for what i learned and see peoples around here, most of shiroe actions toward akatsuki are considered "flirting", when we want to just dance "we do "alone", we see in flashback shiroe comemment about he saw akatsuki training to dance and he invited her in a too much gentleman(i'm not saying who he must be rude but not so nice) when we want just dance we go and "you wanna dance"? and not oh you are wonderfull you want dance, wanna dance with me???

how many times shiroe keep comment how cute or pretty or special akatsuki is for him????

oblivion peoples dont know who their are in a double date, if him was really a dense or oblivion character, his behavious in the date was:

why that peoples are looking at me???
what is happen???


not:

shit, why i did this???
that killing eyes???
how i can leave this??
how i can survive this
why i made this date??

shiroe behavious not match with "dense" peoples, he is smart enough to know what he did and what is happen around him, this not a trait of "dense peoples".
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Old 2014-03-02, 11:19   Link #85
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
not the way he invited her, well maybe is a cultural difference between you and me but for what i learned and see peoples around here, most of shiroe actions toward akatsuki are considered "flirting", when we want to just dance "we do "alone", we see in flashback shiroe comemment about he saw akatsuki training to dance and he invited her in a too much gentleman(i'm not saying who he must be rude but not so nice) when we want just dance we go and "you wanna dance"? and not oh you are wonderfull you want dance, wanna dance with me???

how many times shiroe keep comment how cute or pretty or special akatsuki is for him????

oblivion peoples dont know who their are in a double date, if him was really a dense or oblivion character, his behavious in the date was:

why that peoples are looking at me???
what is happen???


not:

shit, why i did this???
that killing eyes???
how i can leave this??
how i can survive this
why i made this date??

shiroe behavious not match with "dense" peoples, he is smart enough to know what he did and what is happen around him, this not a trait of "dense peoples".
Shiroe is smart enough to figure out that he ended up in a date, he did not figure it out beforehand.
And Shiroe is not dense, just not a socially savvy person, he does not notice people being in love with him because he is not thinking about such things (also, either the people are themselves not aware of it (Minori), actively hiding it (Akatsuki) or not doing anything about it (Henrietta)).

And in what world does being polite and well mannered mean flirting?
Because that's as far as i have seen Shiroe being, no flirting (at least intentional).

Also, telling someone they look good (especially when asked), is not flirting, and Akatsuki is special, she's one of the best Assassins in Yamato (personal skill standpoint, her gear is, at best, entry level for starter raids), with high level tracker (or was it ranger?) subclass, making her a near perfect spy (which is pretty valuable for someone like Shiroe).
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Old 2014-03-02, 11:25   Link #86
ellessarr
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Shiroe is smart enough to figure out that he ended up in a date, he did not figure it out beforehand.
And Shiroe is not dense, just not a socially savvy person, he does not notice people being in love with him because he is not thinking about such things (also, either the people are themselves not aware of it (Minori), actively hiding it (Akatsuki) or not doing anything about it (Henrietta)).

And in what world does being polite and well mannered mean flirting?
Because that's as far as i have seen Shiroe being, no flirting (at least intentional).

Also, telling someone they look good (especially when asked), is not flirting, and Akatsuki is special, she's one of the best Assassins in Yamato (personal skill standpoint, her gear is, at best, entry level for starter raids), with high level tracker (or was it ranger?) subclass, making her a near perfect spy (which is pretty valuable for someone like Shiroe).
he not praising her just by her "class skills" but her look, for girls this is good enough for feel like being courted, say one time or two is a thing but not all the times, even if "unintentional" he is obvious flirting and this is what most of otakus mc type living doing "flirting unintended, but in the end this is exactly what their are doing cuz this is how otaku romance work in most of the cases.

Last edited by ellessarr; 2014-03-02 at 11:40.
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Old 2014-03-02, 11:36   Link #87
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he not praising her just by her "class skills" but her look for girls this is good enough for feel like being courted, say one time or two is a thing but not all the times, even if "unintentional" he is obvious flirting and this is what most of otakus mc type living doing "flirting unintended, but in the end this is exactly what their are doing cuz this is how otaku romance work in most of the cases.
I don't think Shiroe is praising anyone all that often (except when they are either doubting themselves, fishing for compliments or showing of what they have learned).
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Old 2014-03-02, 11:42   Link #88
ellessarr
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I don't think Shiroe is praising anyone all that often (except when they are either doubting themselves, fishing for compliments or showing of what they have learned).
then basically you are deny all the romance hints who the writer keep trhowing and dont have any romance toward shiroe and all he does is just "being a neet/nerd with social gentleman skills and shiroe never liked anyone or dont know nothing about love, this is what i get for your "explannation.
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Old 2014-03-02, 12:02   Link #89
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then basically you are deny all the romance hints who the writer keep trhowing and dont have any romance toward shiroe and all he does is just "being a neet/nerd with social gentleman skills and shiroe never liked anyone or dont know nothing about love, this is what i get for your "explannation.
ummmm, what?
When have i called Shiroe neet or nerd?
As for social gentleman skills, not sure what you mean by that, he is a gentleman in that he is not rude, and tries to not embarrass people (the biggest possibly social insight he had was when he noticed Akatsuki wanted to dance, and did not point it out (and possibly embarrass her) but simply asked her for a dance).

And as far as we can tell, Shiroe has not shown any special liking towards anyone (Kanami being possible exception, depending how you read his flashbacks) beyond simple friendship.
Which does not mean he knows nothing about love (he is clearly aware it exists), only that he, probably, is not in love with anyone (except, possibly, maybe, kinda, Kanami) at the moment.

There is romance in the novels, and in the anime, but there is no actual signs that Shiroe is encouraging, or even aware, of it at this stage.
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Old 2014-03-02, 12:05   Link #90
ellessarr
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ummmm, what?
When have i called Shiroe neet or nerd?
As for social gentleman skills, not sure what you mean by that, he is a gentleman in that he is not rude, and tries to not embarrass people (the biggest possibly social insight he had was when he noticed Akatsuki wanted to dance, and did not point it out (and possibly embarrass her) but simply asked her for a dance).

And as far as we can tell, Shiroe has not shown any special liking towards anyone (Kanami being possible exception, depending how you read his flashbacks) beyond simple friendship.
Which does not mean he knows nothing about love (he is clearly aware it exists), only that he, probably, is not in love with anyone (except, possibly, maybe, kinda, Kanami) at the moment.

There is romance in the novels, and in the anime, but there is no actual signs that Shiroe is encouraging, or even aware, of it at this stage.
ok let's ending it with the famous we agree who we disagree, we have different vision in "regard romance" in anime what you dont call i perfect call, cuz i see the same situatio happen in a lot of others animes/mangas/ln, mc start to unintetional rise flags in all the places and keep oblivion to then for only later when we have enough "girls" or enough ship tease or whatever you want call, the writer finally start to show more solid things.
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Old 2014-03-02, 12:36   Link #91
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ok let's ending it with the famous we agree who we disagree, we have different vision in "regard romance" in anime what you dont call i perfect call, cuz i see the same situatio happen in a lot of others animes/mangas/ln.
Yes, Log Horizon is an Anime (and Light Novel), and it uses Anime (and Light Novel) tropes.

There is tons of shiptease between Shiroe and Akatsuki, some between Shiroe and Henrietta, and little between Shiroe and Minori (plenty of crushing from Minori though, so no telling where it goes from there).

But there is no actual signs that Shiroe is somehow intentional encouraging any of it, or consciously flirting with any of the girls (and even unconscious is debatable).

You make a claim that Shiroe knows how to deal with girls, yet every interaction (that is in anyway confrontational) we see of him shows exactly opposite.
You also call it a bad plot that Shiroe somehow acts as a gentlemanly lover (and fail to demonstrate when and how he does it) at one time while still remaining oblivious.

I say you are wrong.
Minori sees Shiroe as a saviour and mentor, authority figure she can look up to, and is in love with that figure, how far those feelings go remain to be seen (she is, however, fairly naive in her picture of Shiroe, and does not see his more ruthless side), but those feelings are not because Shiroe act as some sort of gentleman lover.

Akatsuki sees Shiroe also as a saviour (thanks to the appearance reset potion), and she is thankful that Shiroe treats her as an adult she is instead of a child that she looks like, she also respects Shiroe for his talents as a leader, and for all these things she loves him, not out of some gentlemanly behaviour from Shiroes side.

Henrietta sees a young man, who stood firm when reality itself was shaken, who did with ease what others might have deemed impossible, a Machiavellian hero who reshaped a city of fiftenn thousand people through power of his will.
This is the man Henrietta loves, a well intentioned demon, blackhearted villain who saves the world and cares not what the world thinks.
Not some gentleman who just happens to know how to deal with women.

So if you did not already figure it form my post, no, i am not going to agree to disagree.
I will continue to defend my point until you either back up your arguments (to a point where i find some merit in them), or back off.
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Old 2014-03-02, 13:57   Link #92
ellessarr
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Yes, Log Horizon is an Anime (and Light Novel), and it uses Anime (and Light Novel) tropes.

There is tons of shiptease between Shiroe and Akatsuki, some between Shiroe and Henrietta, and little between Shiroe and Minori (plenty of crushing from Minori though, so no telling where it goes from there).

But there is no actual signs that Shiroe is somehow intentional encouraging any of it, or consciously flirting with any of the girls (and even unconscious is debatable).

You make a claim that Shiroe knows how to deal with girls, yet every interaction (that is in anyway confrontational) we see of him shows exactly opposite.
You also call it a bad plot that Shiroe somehow acts as a gentlemanly lover (and fail to demonstrate when and how he does it) at one time while still remaining oblivious.

I say you are wrong.
Minori sees Shiroe as a saviour and mentor, authority figure she can look up to, and is in love with that figure, how far those feelings go remain to be seen (she is, however, fairly naive in her picture of Shiroe, and does not see his more ruthless side), but those feelings are not because Shiroe act as some sort of gentleman lover.

Akatsuki sees Shiroe also as a saviour (thanks to the appearance reset potion), and she is thankful that Shiroe treats her as an adult she is instead of a child that she looks like, she also respects Shiroe for his talents as a leader, and for all these things she loves him, not out of some gentlemanly behaviour from Shiroes side.

Henrietta sees a young man, who stood firm when reality itself was shaken, who did with ease what others might have deemed impossible, a Machiavellian hero who reshaped a city of fiftenn thousand people through power of his will.
This is the man Henrietta loves, a well intentioned demon, blackhearted villain who saves the world and cares not what the world thinks.
Not some gentleman who just happens to know how to deal with women.

So if you did not already figure it form my post, no, i am not going to agree to disagree.
I will continue to defend my point until you either back up your arguments (to a point where i find some merit in them), or back off.
man i'm just dont want to rewatch 22 episodes again and show you everytime shiroe was "flirting" with akatsuki(if even i'm not wrong in one episode naotsugu make a appointment about then "flirting" them akatsui and shiroe blush.

i'm not saying who he is a master in romance, but he have enough "knowledege" to know who some of his actions can be interpreted as "flirting" or romantic interest, now how serious he want look at them is another history, but his actions are not just about the only way to look is friendship or respect, this is my point, shiroe can be aware of "his intentions" have double standards and maybe he "uninentioned is wanting a girlfriend".
like i told i'm not much good in a mod to look back and track every episode where we have all the hints, but if you really want to insist i can do it later, but for what i read of comment here i'm not the only here see the things.
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Old 2014-03-02, 14:23   Link #93
J4n1
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man i'm just dont want to rewatch 22 episodes again and show you everytime shiroe was "flirting" with akatsuki(if even i'm not wrong in one episode naotsugu make a appointment about then "flirting" them akatsui and shiroe blush.
That Naotsugu is comment about them flirting, is no actual indication of them flirting, and them blushing has nothing to do with them flirting, and all to do with the idea of them flirting (which both find embarrassing).

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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
i'm not saying who he is a master in romance, but he have enough "knowledege" to know who some of his actions can be interpreted as "flirting" or romantic interest,
Where is this shown?
When has he shown awareness of the possibility that he might be flirting?
What evidence is there that he is aware of the girls having any romantic interest in him?
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
now how serious he want look at them is another history, but his actions are not just about the only way to look is friendship or respect, this is my point,
I have no idea what you are saying here.
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
shiroe can be aware of "his intentions" have double standards and maybe he "uninentioned is wanting a girlfriend".
Are you saying that he wants a girlfriend but is not aware of it?
Again, when, where, what, show some evidence, proof, indication, anything, that what you are saying is in any way accurate.

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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
like i told i'm not much good in a mod to look back and track every episode where we have all the hints, but if you really want to insist i can do it later, but for what i read of comment here i'm not the only here see the things.
Is there anyone else claiming Shiroe is intentionally trying to lead on the girls?

Romance is there, i don't think anyone has at any point denied that, started as a triangle, and started growing from there.
But it exists outside Shiroes awareness, or intent.

Shiroe is a clueless hero when it comes to romance, but unlike many other Animes or Light Novels, he has fairly decent reasons for being clueless.
There has been no indication of anything else.
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Old 2014-03-02, 14:41   Link #94
ellessarr
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That Naotsugu is comment about them flirting, is no actual indication of them flirting, and them blushing has nothing to do with them flirting, and all to do with the idea of them flirting (which both find embarrassing).


Where is this shown?
When has he shown awareness of the possibility that he might be flirting?
What evidence is there that he is aware of the girls having any romantic interest in him?

I have no idea what you are saying here.

Are you saying that he wants a girlfriend but is not aware of it?
Again, when, where, what, show some evidence, proof, indication, anything, that what you are saying is in any way accurate.


Is there anyone else claiming Shiroe is intentionally trying to lead on the girls?

Romance is there, i don't think anyone has at any point denied that, started as a triangle, and started growing from there.
But it exists outside Shiroes awareness, or intent.

Shiroe is a clueless hero when it comes to romance, but unlike many other Animes or Light Novels, he has fairly decent reasons for being clueless.
There has been no indication of anything else.
ok to ending this in the same way you ask me to point i ask you to point in anime proofs who he what you are saying, if you can point them otherwise i dont agree with you and this is the end and i'm really tired to argue with you and probably this will be my last replay to you, stubbornness is not one of my strong points.
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Old 2014-03-02, 16:23   Link #95
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Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
There is tons of shiptease between Shiroe and Akatsuki, some between Shiroe and Henrietta, and little between Shiroe and Minori (plenty of crushing from Minori though, so no telling where it goes from there).

But there is no actual signs that Shiroe is somehow intentional encouraging any of it, or consciously flirting with any of the girls (and even unconscious is debatable).
QFT.

I apologize for leading us down the road with my off-hand comment that Shiroe is "clueless." Surprisingly, in retrospect, ellessaar agreed with me then
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yep indeed in the end shiro is just another cliche dense or fake dense mc
so I don't see how we get to Shiroe now being a flirt.

I see this episode as a rather heavy-handed commentary on who Japanese people see as MMORG players -- people like Satou-kun:



Hikikomori, NEETs, you-name-it. They're living in tiny apartments or their parents' homes, communing in a 2-D world online, and peeing in bottles. Akatsuki and Shiroe are prototypes for these characters. It's not surprising that they have limited social skills. I think the author wants us to admire their other talents and see that gamers are not losers even when they are socially inept.

Minori and Tohya represent a different type of player, kids out for a good time with friends or, in this case, a sibling. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that either of them had a relatively rich middle-school life. Touya would probably tend to athletics while Minori might be in the literary club. I could imagine the real-life Minori easily crushing on a male teacher the way she crushes on Shiroe.

The people represented by Krusty and Henrietta are probably also pretty different in real-life from any of the ones I've mentioned so far. They seem more socially experienced. Henrietta is an accountant in real-life, perhaps in her mid-20s. I don't see much on the Net about Krusty's real-life player, though if his avatar is to be believed (and why should it?), he seems like a BMOC type and probably knows his way around the ladies. He certainly seemed to think he could work his wiles on Lenessia.

By the way, Krusty is allegedly named after the character in the Simpsons! I can't say I see the resemblance.
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Old 2014-03-02, 16:35   Link #96
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Bah just TL;DR.

My own personal view? Not everyone is a love guru or interpersonal relationship master.
For some Shiroe's actions might seem cliche in an anime setting.
But for me I can relate, be it at college, work or in a MMORPG I can lead any team to do work and reach a goal in a snap, easy as cake. But when it comes to forming interpersonal relations or even romance it's like a minefield, sometimes I feel frozen like a deer in front of a headlight.

Just like how we or other characters can clearly see Serara's affection for Nyanta or Akatsuki for Shiroe. In RL the same happens. I was once visiting a former workplace I left because I had a fallout with the co-owner. And BTW, people have fallouts for the most stupid of reasons too, that's why feelings are a minefield and what may happen is not set in stone or predictable. Back to the story, I still maintained good friendship with other workers so sometimes we hung out. One time we go out for lunch and a new girl working there joins the group. You can start guessing what happened. She starts chatting with me and all. And yes, I didn't realize until a long time after she was flirting and gunning for me. I even ask the other guys if it was so obvious and I was so oblivious and they answered with a resounding, yes. Too bad by that time she was no longer working there and they didn't have her contact :/

If people are so stupid when it comes to one person's feelings. Now throw in two into the mix. On the other hand Shiroe could start doing all the wrong things like Ito Makoto, but that's not in his personality.

Last edited by Kamui04; 2014-03-02 at 16:47. Reason: typos and grammar
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Old 2014-03-02, 16:41   Link #97
J4n1
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
ok to ending this in the same way you ask me to point i ask you to point in anime proofs who he what you are saying, if you can point them otherwise i dont agree with you and this is the end and i'm really tired to argue with you and probably this will be my last replay to you, stubbornness is not one of my strong points.

Could have fooled me.

It is impossible to prove a non existence of a thing, i could point to any amount of situations of Shiroe not flirting, but none of those would actually prove anything.
you make a claim that Shiroe is something, therefore it is up to you to actually back up that claim.

Oh fuck, now i know why i've been constantly getting a deja vu through this conversation, it's a bloody atheist/theist debate all over again with anime characters.

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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
QFT.

I apologize for leading us down the road with my off-hand comment that Shiroe is "clueless." Surprisingly, in retrospect, ellessaar agreed with me then

So I don't see how we get to Shiroe now being a flirt.

I see this episode a rather heavy-handed comment on who Japanese people see as MMORG players -- people like Satou-kun:



Hikikomori, NEETs, you-name-it. They're living in tiny apartments or their parents' homes, communing in a 2-D world online, and peeing in bottles. Akatsuki and Shiroe are prototypes for these character. It's not surprising that they have limited social skills. I think the author wants us to admire their other talents and see that gamers are not losers.

Minori and Tohya represent a different type of player, kids out for a good time with friends or, in this case, a sibling. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that either of them had a relatively rich middle-school life. Touya would probably tend to athletics while Minori might be in the literary club. I could imagine the real-life Minori easily crushing on a male teacher the way she crushes on Shiroe.

The people represented by Krusty and Henrietta are probably also pretty different in real-life from any of the ones I've mentioned so far. They seem more socially adept. Henrietta is an accountant in real-life, perhaps in her mid-20s. I don't see much on the Net about Krusty's real-life player, though if his avatar is to be believed (and why should it?), he seems like a BMOC type and probably knows his way around the ladies.

By the way, Krusty is allegedly named after the character in the Simpsons!
Shiroe and Akatsuki are not NEETs, Shiroe is studying in university (something that involves making plans/designs with computers), and so is Akatsuki (i think, not actually totally certain of that).

Of Krusty, we know little, Henrietta is canonically an accountant and seems to work for Maryelle's dad, if we were to look for a NEET, i think Maryelle would be our best bet, and even then she is hardly a shut in.

Shiroe might fit the stereotype of a college/university student who spends all his non study time playing online games though, still not a NEET though.
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Old 2014-03-02, 17:08   Link #98
SeijiSensei
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I agree, NEET is the wrong word for them, but they still seem like relative shut-ins, don't you think? As you say Shiroe's world probably cycles between school and gaming. I don't see him going to bars and hoisting a few with his friends. Akatsuki apparently never goes clothes shopping with other girls/women either. My daughter (age 22) isn't big into shopping, but she certainly has gone shopping with friends on occasion.

And I am talking to some degree about popular perceptions of gamers in general, not just these two in particular.
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Old 2014-03-02, 17:10   Link #99
Kamui04
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Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post

Shiroe and Akatsuki are not NEETs, Shiroe is studying in university (something that involves making plans/designs with computers), and so is Akatsuki (i think, not actually totally certain of that).
Not NEETs, but those socially inept or awkward, who although go to school or have a work, they spend the rest of their time in hobbies like anime, videogames, MMOs, and such, rarely go out and mostly socialize with people with the same interest. Which is basically a big part of the Geeky population -_- Oh, damn that's me too. See why I can relate to Shiroe?
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Old 2014-03-02, 17:23   Link #100
J4n1
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Originally Posted by Kamui04 View Post
Not NEETs, but those socially inept or awkward, who although go to school or have a work, they spend the rest of their time in hobbies like anime, videogames, MMOs, and such, rarely go out and mostly socialize with people with the same interest. Which is basically a big part of the Geeky population -_- Oh, damn that's me too. See why I can relate to Shiroe?
Yep, both Shiroe and Akatsuki are part of the populace that shine when it is all business (well, focused on a well defined purpose), but the moment business end is over, both get awkward as hell.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I agree, NEET is the wrong word for them, but they still seem like relative shut-ins, don't you think? As you say Shiroe's world probably cycles between school and gaming. I don't see him going to bars and hoisting a few with his friends. Akatsuki apparently never goes clothes shopping with other girls/women either. My daughter (age 22) isn't big into shopping, but she certainly has gone shopping with friends on occasion.

And I am talking to some degree about popular perceptions of gamers in general, not just these two in particular.
Thing is, Akatsuki can't really buy clothes outside child section or specialized stores, and she has a complex about her looks so going shopping for clothes would be rather, uncomfortable, for her, so it's fairly understandable that she would not do it.

Shiroe is a raider (though not a guilded one, some weird type of a mercenary specialist other guilds call in when their guy is out of comission or something), presumably lot of his friends are also gamers, and raid, so his social life probably largely revolves around game, making him socially awkward outside the game setting.

Where as Akatsuki uses (used) gaming as an escape from her real life situation, so she probably would not have played with people she knew outside game, making her even more isolated apart from her general shines and social awkwardness.
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