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Old 2014-06-13, 04:35   Link #701
Der Langrisser
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Ukrainian forces surround rebel-held port city

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0EO0KP20140613
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Old 2014-07-17, 15:49   Link #702
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Recording of Separatists realising they shot down a civilian plane. Translation in the link.
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Old 2014-07-17, 19:20   Link #703
MCAL
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These Malayasian Airlines can't catch a damn break.
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Old 2014-07-17, 20:14   Link #704
risingstar3110
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Yeah, isn't the BBC reporting that the seperatists unlikely to have the sophisticated equipments to shoot plane that high? The fact that Euro Air Control didn't black list that region kinda confirmed it. As if the rebels have any capability to, they would have close the air zones surrounding there

It's likely the Russians or Ukrainians now. Both have no reasons to shoot the planes off in the first place.

Maybe bomb strapped terrorists. And was just a coincidence for it to explore over Ukraine?


Selfish to say this, but hope no one i know is on it
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Last edited by Flower; 2014-07-18 at 05:21. Reason: Deleted quoted post that was deleted....
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Old 2014-07-17, 20:31   Link #705
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Meanwhile, a U.S. intelligence source told Fox News that the intelligence community was ruling out the possibility the missile was fired by the Ukraine military but could not rule out that it was fired from Russian territory.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07...-over-ukraine/

In separatists' "defense", at least it's still possible for Russia to be the culprit.
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Old 2014-07-17, 20:42   Link #706
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Question: Does the rebels have any big transport planes or any SAM facilities?

For the government forces to shoot down an airliner, it must be seen as a legit target. If rebels had no aircraft, no reason to shoot at all.

For rebels, 10km straight up is pretty much out of range of man carry AA rockets, it would require a missile (and a pretty big one at that) from a delicated SAM site.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
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Old 2014-07-17, 20:55   Link #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
It's likely the Russians or Ukrainians now. Both have no reasons to shoot the planes off in the first place.
Except Russia has been actively shooting down Ukrainian aircraft for the past week. Russia doesn't need a logical reason to shoot down a passenger liner if they're already in target acquisition mode and screw up.


Also. Some sources are claiming the Ukrainian separatists have found the Black box and sent it to...Moscow for examination. I'm sure we'll be in for a perfectly objective and non-biased examination here folks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
Question: Does the rebels have any big transport planes or any SAM facilities?

For the government forces to shoot down an airliner, it must be seen as a legit target. If rebels had no aircraft, no reason to shoot at all.

For rebels, 10km straight up is pretty much out of range of man carry AA rockets, it would require a missile (and a pretty big one at that) from a delicated SAM site.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
You're pretty much right. We're talking about dedicated SAM sites here. I'd consider it difficult for the Sepratists to have access to something like that, but not TOTALLY impossible if they got lucking looting the right base or got enough support/expertise from Russia. So I wouldn't totally dismiss the rebels here.

Though do keep in mind that at least one Ukranian aircraft has allegedly shot down by a Russian jet. That could hypothetically have left the Ukrainian air-force/SAM teams a bit trigger happy as well.
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Old 2014-07-17, 20:58   Link #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
Question: Does the rebels have any big transport planes or any SAM facilities?

For the government forces to shoot down an airliner, it must be seen as a legit target. If rebels had no aircraft, no reason to shoot at all.

For rebels, 10km straight up is pretty much out of range of man carry AA rockets, it would require a missile (and a pretty big one at that) from a delicated SAM site.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
I think it's unlikely if the rebel have any SAM site especially the long range one, They would have been well a target by Ukrainian forces in that case considering how much Ukrainian operation was based on air lift. The rebels also were not trained to use any of the sophisticated system. Radar and guiding systems and such


The most likely right now is unknown Russian trained militants and with provided sophisticated equipment. Or Ukrainian force mistakes the airplane for a Russian air invasion and decided to jump the gun with missile intercept, Or the Russian military did that (mistaking Ukrainian aircraft) and intercept as provokation
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Old 2014-07-17, 21:12   Link #709
JokerD
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Well, this is the system the government forces are claiming that rebels used for the shootdown:
Buk missile system
A vehicle mounted SAM system.
(Must be noted that Ukraine uses this as well)
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Old 2014-07-17, 22:27   Link #710
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For the first responders there now... it must be very gruesome. From some news sites report that the area is in a village. rebels are on the scene. Possibly found the black box and is being delivered to Russian investigators. Whatever is happening there, the rest of the world has no idea and its most likely in Russian hands. What bothers me is that the international officals are not at the scene, besides reporters
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Old 2014-07-17, 22:29   Link #711
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by psycho bolt View Post
For the first responders there now... it must be very gruesome. The area is patroled by rebels
My understanding is that the first responders WERE the rebels.
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Old 2014-07-17, 23:33   Link #712
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As of a while, the stocks of Malaysian Airlines have dipped down 11%.
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Old 2014-07-18, 00:44   Link #713
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The plane was flying from the west of Ukraine over to the east right? Assuming the plane was tracked a while before people decided to shoot it down, that kind of makes it unlikely that the Ukraine military mistook it as a plane coming from Russia. It makes more sense that the rebels or Russians mistook it as a Ukrainian military plane flying its way over.
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Old 2014-07-18, 01:49   Link #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yu Ominae View Post
As of a while, the stocks of Malaysian Airlines have dipped down 11%.
Yeah I saw that too. No buy signal yet.

And who is the one manufacturing the Buk SAM? Do they have a ticker symbol?
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Old 2014-07-18, 04:42   Link #715
Flower
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Allright folks. I am really tired of the total lack of discussion here and descent to the level of snidery and biting one another. And so are other posters, who have reported this thread multiple times already.

I am closing the thread and doing cleaning.

In the meantime cool your jets.

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Edit: Okay, am re-opening the thread at other mods recommendation.

Let's keep discussion civil and calm, okay? ^^
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Last edited by Flower; 2014-07-18 at 10:35.
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Old 2014-07-18, 12:52   Link #716
risingstar3110
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I know this is far-stretched, but could it possible that this and the MH370 were under the same terrorist attack plot? I'm talking about the worst case scenario here.

Like is there any evidence that it was shot down instead of being exploded from inside? I know i goes a bit too much conspiracy~ish. But as the MH370 was lost over the seas, while the MH37 was exploded over Ukraine sky. It's easy to just linking the first to technical error, while the second on missile strike.

But what if both time, it was simply used to test, let's say an explosive devices/ liquid to see if they can be brought and used on plane? The first test was used with only a really small amount just to disrupt the enngine, and ultilise the transition between national flight zone (from Singapore to Vietnam?) to hide the real cause. While the second was set to explode over a war zone for similar purpose?


I'm saying this because the very worst scenario is: there might be multiple airliners being attacked consecutively around the globe days or week from now on. Before the international teams can come in and investigate the real causes. Too far-stretched theory and of course, like i said, I really hope it was not the case, as i gonna have a friend coming over in a week as well
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Old 2014-07-18, 15:44   Link #717
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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You ARE being a conspiracy theorist, because you missed the entire point of a terrorist attack; that people need to know that you are doing it.

A terrorist attack only works if people know it was an attack. If it was made to looks like a horrible accident instead, then it isn't actually terrorism.

This is also why often terrorists would claim responsibility for attacks they didn't actually do; because what's important isn't the casualties but the fear. People don't FEAR accidents, people fear other people.
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Old 2014-07-18, 15:55   Link #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
I know this is far-stretched, but could it possible that this and the MH370 were under the same terrorist attack plot? I'm talking about the worst case scenario here.

Like is there any evidence that it was shot down instead of being exploded from inside? I know i goes a bit too much conspiracy~ish. But as the MH370 was lost over the seas, while the MH37 was exploded over Ukraine sky. It's easy to just linking the first to technical error, while the second on missile strike.

But what if both time, it was simply used to test, let's say an explosive devices/ liquid to see if they can be brought and used on plane? The first test was used with only a really small amount just to disrupt the enngine, and ultilise the transition between national flight zone (from Singapore to Vietnam?) to hide the real cause. While the second was set to explode over a war zone for similar purpose?


I'm saying this because the very worst scenario is: there might be multiple airliners being attacked consecutively around the globe days or week from now on. Before the international teams can come in and investigate the real causes. Too far-stretched theory and of course, like i said, I really hope it was not the case, as i gonna have a friend coming over in a week as well
i think it is time you cut back on the mj brownies.

it has been confirm since last night that the plane taken out by a SAM.
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Old 2014-07-18, 16:29   Link #719
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You ARE being a conspiracy theorist, because you missed the entire point of a terrorist attack; that people need to know that you are doing it.

A terrorist attack only works if people know it was an attack. If it was made to looks like a horrible accident instead, then it isn't actually terrorism.

This is also why often terrorists would claim responsibility for attacks they didn't actually do; because what's important isn't the casualties but the fear. People don't FEAR accidents, people fear other people.
That's why i said it's a test. They always can claim it later after they carried out a full-scaled terrorists attacks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i think it is time you cut back on the mj brownies.

it has been confirm since last night that the plane taken out by a SAM.
But how through? I thought no investigation has been carried out yet? It's still a war zone over there isn't it?

And that's why i said it's a worst case scenario. If it won't happen then i will not be any happier. But before that i have to know that it's unreasonable for it to happen
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Old 2014-07-18, 18:22   Link #720
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Terrorists don't DO tests. You are confused about how terrorism works. If they are going to kill a plane full of people they are NOT testing.
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