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Old 2014-03-12, 14:27   Link #41
marvelB
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As expected, the Usopp venom continues.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Why is this so?
The timeskip would have been the perfect chance for Usopp to realize his dream of becoming a brave warrior.

Not necessarily. At least, as long as he was stuck on one island, anyway. The real key to his growth is for him to gain more actual combat experience, which one wouldn't gain a lot of through training alone (and this more or less applies to ALL of the Straw-Hats, BTW). It's also important to remember that Usopp is more or less the "everyman" of the crew, which makes him the most "human" person on a ship full of monsters. Simply put, it's not like he's going to become fearless overnight, and he's already doing the best he can as a normal guy in a world full of people with supernatural abilities.



This is why I'm nowhere near as bothered by the last couple of chapters' developments as some others are. Not like I CAN'T understand why those people are so bitter, but being a wimp is simply in Usopp's nature, that's all. It's tantamount to expecting Luffy to be less of a reckless idiot or for Sanji to start beating up people of the opposite sex. You can't expect someone to break character so easily.
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Old 2014-03-12, 14:32   Link #42
paradox13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Shiruto View Post
Exactly. He freaked out because they caught him off-guard, nothing else.

And I dunno, but this Usopp runs away only to come back cooler than ever formula has been overused throughout the story it irks me there's still someone out there who still can't comprehend Usopp's character quirks.
Why would it irk you?

People change in real life; characters can change in a story. It's called character progression. It's not unreasonable to expect some progress in a manga that has lasted 10+ years already.

Quote:
Luffy to be less of a reckless idiot
He does seem to be less of a reckless idiot ever since the Sabaody incident.
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Old 2014-03-12, 14:45   Link #43
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
He does seem to be less of a reckless idiot ever since the Sabaody incident.

Yeah, I probably didn't phrase that right.... Perhaps "quit being a reckless idiot" would better suffice here, I think.
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Old 2014-03-12, 15:04   Link #44
Trax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Yeah, I probably didn't phrase that right.... Perhaps "quit being a reckless idiot" would better suffice here, I think.
I don't think anyone expects Usopp to quit being cowardly altogether either, but his level of cowardice has been off the charts lately, culminating in his reaction in the previous chapter.
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Old 2014-03-12, 15:35   Link #45
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Shiruto View Post
Exactly. He freaked out because they caught him off-guard, nothing else.

And I dunno, but this Usopp runs away only to come back cooler than ever formula has been overused throughout the story it irks me there's still someone out there who still can't comprehend Usopp's character quirks.
The Keyword is "overused"; As in used beyond the point that it is acceptable.
Fans want Ussop to grow, not remain stagnant, or much worst, out right regress when he showed signs of progress

Heck its kind of funny that you still defend Ussop even though in this chapter he did what you said wasn't going to happen. You thought he was just faking it, just lying to himself; but no, he was in fact just running away like a coward. You tried to claim that this was not character regression, saying that it would only be regression if Ussop stopped, admitted he was wrong, and went back... and that's basically what he did. Ussop just showed this chapter that he's retreading old ground; going back to the way he was before the timeskip, so that he could progress back up to where he was after the timeskip

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Not necessarily. At least, as long as he was stuck on one island, anyway. The real key to his growth is for him to gain more actual combat experience, which one wouldn't gain a lot of through training alone (and this more or less applies to ALL of the Straw-Hats, BTW). It's also important to remember that Usopp is more or less the "everyman" of the crew, which makes him the most "human" person on a ship full of monsters. Simply put, it's not like he's going to become fearless overnight, and he's already doing the best he can as a normal guy in a world full of people with supernatural abilities.



This is why I'm nowhere near as bothered by the last couple of chapters' developments as some others are. Not like I CAN'T understand why those people are so bitter, but being a wimp is simply in Usopp's nature, that's all. It's tantamount to expecting Luffy to be less of a reckless idiot or for Sanji to start beating up people of the opposite sex. You can't expect someone to break character so easily.
You're right, people don't change overnight... but it wasn't overnight; it was 2 years, plus the rest of their journey. Aside from getting physically stronger, Ussop has barely changed in the 3 years that he's been journey. Apparently spending 2 years stuck on a carnivorous island didn't do anything for his bravery... Expecting characters to change over the course of a story, much less 3 years, is not expecting a them to break character easily, but expecting them to GROW and DEVELOP

Not to mention what IS changing overnight is ussop showing how brave he is(like on fishman island) and then going back to being a coward. That's not only changing overnight, but full on Character Regression. After the timeskip, Ussop showed himself to be braver and much more confident, but now he's back to jumping at every little thing that pops up just like he was before the timeskip... Oda let the genie out of the bottle, and now he's trying to stuff it back inside.

Characters should grow as a story progresses. Ussop's story would be much better if he had a gradual growth instead of stagnation.
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Old 2014-03-12, 15:46   Link #46
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In a sense, this chapter did show some character progression for Usopp. If I remember correctly, it's the first time he is fighting alone while risking his life in battle for people who are not exactly close to him. There is next to no bond between Usopp and the Tontatas, at least nothing comparable to his bonds within the crew. But he is facing terrible odds, because he feels like it's the right thing to do regardless.
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Old 2014-03-12, 15:58   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
The Keyword is "overused"; As in used beyond the point that it is acceptable.
Fans want Ussop to grow, not remain stagnant, or much worst, out right regress when he showed signs of progress

Heck its kind of funny that you still defend Ussop even though in this chapter he did what you said wasn't going to happen. You thought he was just faking it, just lying to himself; but no, he was in fact just running away like a coward. You tried to claim that this was not character regression, saying that it would only be regression if Ussop stopped, admitted he was wrong, and went back... and that's basically what he did. Ussop just showed this chapter that he's retreading old ground; going back to the way he was before the timeskip, so that he could progress back up to where he was after the timeskip



You're right, people don't change overnight... but it wasn't overnight; it was 2 years, plus the rest of their journey. Aside from getting physically stronger, Ussop has barely changed in the 3 years that he's been journey. Apparently spending 2 years stuck on a carnivorous island didn't do anything for his bravery... Expecting characters to change over the course of a story, much less 3 years, is not expecting a them to break character easily, but expecting them to GROW and DEVELOP

Not to mention what IS changing overnight is ussop showing how brave he is(like on fishman island) and then going back to being a coward. That's not only changing overnight, but full on Character Regression. After the timeskip, Ussop showed himself to be braver and much more confident, but now he's back to jumping at every little thing that pops up just like he was before the timeskip... Oda let the genie out of the bottle, and now he's trying to stuff it back inside.

Characters should grow as a story progresses. Ussop's story would be much better if he had a gradual growth instead of stagnation.
I disagree. He was not "brave" on fishman Island. Usopp and Nami were both hiding behind the strong fighters in the beginning. And only got confident because the whole crew was there together. On Punk Hazard they were only able to fight when outnumbering the enemy or when the enemy was fleeing. The whole thing with the fake SHs didn't make him "brave" either. He was obviously just trying to show off and I guess even he can see if an enemy is complete fodder or not. The fake SHs didn't seem any stronger than normal marines, who'd probably all lose to Captain Morgan (where the hell is he right now anyway?) or even by Alivida pre-DF.

I think what comes closest to his state of mind is the situation he got into when fighting in Alabasta, but in this case without the help of Chopper this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
In a sense, this chapter did show some character progression for Usopp. If I remember correctly, it's the first time he is fighting alone while risking his life in battle for people who are not exactly close to him. There is next to no bond between Usopp and the Tontatas, at least nothing comparable to his bonds within the crew. But he is facing terrible odds, because he feels like it's the right thing to do regardless.
Yes exactly that.


EDIT: Not to mention what would Usopp do when he would have become the "brave warrior of the sea" after the time skip already? Just "be there" or what? If he reaches his goal so early then he would probably become more and more a side character (see: Naruto).
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Old 2014-03-12, 16:58   Link #48
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I actually understand where Usopp is coming from,it's like in real life,many people suffer MAJOR social anxiety where they're afraid to talk to people,or are too shy,and it doesn't take a day for them to change,it takes years,of course the best way to overcome this is to actually talk to a lot of people.

Same here,he's fighting here and there,obviously he's more confident fighting fodder,but when it comes to real strong opponents,he's going to shit his pants,and it's not like he doesn't have a reason to be afraid,he had his skull broken once and suffered a lot of pain during their journeys.There's a reason only the monster trio control Haki at the moment,because they're strong willed,they're out of the ordinary.
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Old 2014-03-12, 17:08   Link #49
imza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noktown View Post
I actually understand where Usopp is coming from,it's like in real life,many people suffer MAJOR social anxiety where they're afraid to talk to people,or are too shy,and it doesn't take a day for them to change,it takes years,of course the best way to overcome this is to actually talk to a lot of people.

Same here,he's fighting here and there,obviously he's more confident fighting fodder,but when it comes to real strong opponents,he's going to shit his pants,and it's not like he doesn't have a reason to be afraid,he had his skull broken once and suffered a lot of pain during their journeys.There's a reason only the monster trio control Haki at the moment,because they're strong willed,they're out of the ordinary.
Actually it only takes years if the person avoids the experience that elicits the fear. In Ussop's case though, psychologically, it makes no sense that he would still be showing such high levels of fears with the experiences he has had.
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Old 2014-03-12, 18:56   Link #50
noktown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imza View Post
Actually it only takes years if the person avoids the experience that elicits the fear. In Ussop's case though, psychologically, it makes no sense that he would still be showing such high levels of fears with the experiences he has had.
Even if you don't avoid the experience,you will still experience anxiety,you never get rid of it to be honest,you can just get better at controlling it and controlling your body language/mindset,but you will always experience anxiety.
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Old 2014-03-12, 19:25   Link #51
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Lightning Soldier is Curos

Did I see that correctly?! The Lightning Solder is Curos?
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Old 2014-03-12, 19:55   Link #52
ellifeedn
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Remember how fast Trebol was? Maybe Usopp hit an afterimage or something. Or maybe Trebol made a slime clone.
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Old 2014-03-12, 20:11   Link #53
GreyZone
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Now that Usopp showed himself to everyone as "Usopp of the Straw Hat Pirates", I wonder if he will get a Bounty for himself, and I mean for himself, seperate from "Sogeking". Since many others have such strange things with their bounties (Robin having her bounty increased by just 1 million after EL, Sanji's photo, Chopper's 50 Berri, etc.) it would be a fitting thing IMO. Then at least the people of his village won't be able to deny his "success" anymore.
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Old 2014-03-12, 20:43   Link #54
ellifeedn
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Something I just wondered: if Usopp were turned into a toy, would people forget Sokeking?
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Old 2014-03-13, 01:38   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Fans want Ussop to grow, not remain stagnant.
Here's the thing, I don't really want Usopp to grow. I like the fact that he's a coward.

As I said before, I think it makes him a funnier, more interesting character, and he brings an element of behavioral uncertainty to an otherwise competent and effective crew. All the best comedic characters are shallow and predictable.

I'd be raging just as hard as you are now if Usopp was slowly transformed via "character development" into braveheart bear. I don't want to see that. Oda's writing this part for guys like me.
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Old 2014-03-13, 01:43   Link #56
grey_1960
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Chapter 741
That was an okay chapter. I am glad oda got Ussop's issues out of the way in couple chapters. Now I kinda wonder who Ussop will take Sugar out of the way. I personally don't think he will defeat Trebol. Now if he can complete the mission with Sugar then he won't be alone in the battle with Trebol. Kyros story is turning out to be interesting. It should be neat to seem him battle Daflamingo once he is no longer toy soldier.

Color Page
That was a cool color page for this chapter. Zoro looks like a badass, Robin reminds me of Impel down Officer, and Sanji kinda looks like he got done fighting WW2. You know seeing Zoro in military outfits makes me wish he was actually a Marine instead of a pirate. All you have to do is take that outfit that he is wearing in this color spread and then put a Marine Coat on him. Vice Admiral Zoro (The Pirate Hunter). He has the chose between having Captain Tashigi, Captain Coby , Sanji, or Robin has his subordinate. I always thought those two (Robin or Tashigi) matched Zoro pretty nicely. Zoro's justice can be Deadly(or Extreme) Justice.
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Old 2014-03-13, 03:11   Link #57
The Small One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
Something I just wondered: if Usopp were turned into a toy, would people forget Sokeking?
Of course. The person in question is forgotten.

I'm much more interessted in how exactly the memories are going to come back once Sugar is out. Will it be as sudden as the memory loss, with only the transformed ones even remembering what happened to them? ("Hey Cyros, what are you talking about toys? There never were any toys, you've been with us the whole time")
Or will the memories return slowly and everyone remembers that Doffy stole important perople from them.
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Old 2014-03-13, 09:46   Link #58
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip72 View Post
Here's the thing, I don't really want Usopp to grow. I like the fact that he's a coward.

As I said before, I think it makes him a funnier, more interesting character, and he brings an element of behavioral uncertainty to an otherwise competent and effective crew. All the best comedic characters are shallow and predictable.

I'd be raging just as hard as you are now if Usopp was slowly transformed via "character development" into braveheart bear. I don't want to see that. Oda's writing this part for guys like me.


This is pretty much how I feel, for the most part (I can still see Usopp growing, though). Oda even said himself that he always intended for Usopp to be the "weakest" of the Straw-Hats, so I think it's fitting that he still remain wimpy, no matter how much improvement he gets (whether it's in terms of battle prowess or character growth). Again, I understand why some people are still angry about the last few chapters, but being a coward is just in Usopp's nature. To put it in another way, he's like the lone sheep in a ship full of wolves, heh.


Actually, I find it interesting that nobody's hopping mad at Nami for similar reasons as Usopp. She was just as eager to run away from the Dressrosa situation after being attacked by Dofla and the marines (to the point that she was even willing to abandon Luffy, lol). Yet nobody gives her any flack about that?


Oh, and another thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogz View Post
Did I see that correctly?! The Lightning Solder is Curos?

Why do people keep spelling his name like that? It's supposed to be Kyros. Or is this due to Panda/MS being up to their old tricks again?
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Old 2014-03-13, 09:51   Link #59
khoa1708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
This is pretty much how I feel, for the most part (I can still see Usopp growing, though). Oda even said himself that he always intended for Usopp to be the "weakest" of the Straw-Hats, so I think it's fitting that he still remain wimpy, no matter how much improvement he gets (whether it's in terms of battle prowess or character growth). Again, I understand why some people are still angry about the last few chapters, but being a coward is just in Usopp's nature. To put it in another way, he's like the lone sheep in a ship full of wolves, heh.


Actually, I find it interesting that nobody's hopping mad at Nami for similar reasons as Usopp. She was just as eager to run away from the Dressrosa situation after being attacked by Dofla and the marines (to the point that she was even willing to abandon Luffy, lol). Yet nobody gives her any flack about that?
it's the way that usopp ran away... the look on his face... it's everything.
nami, chopper, usopp has all been shown in the past to be afraid of dangerous situations but usopp has always been the worse...
his entire back story is based on him being a coward, he didn't improve at all, still a liar and manipulator. IMO, I don't think nami would have ran away like he did
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Old 2014-03-13, 10:22   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khoa1708 View Post
IMO, I don't think nami would have ran away like he did

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but....


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