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Old 2014-03-14, 17:39   Link #61
JustRob
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To be honest that whole "Gai can't use gen / ninjutsu" felt like it came way too late as well. Why didn't they say that when they said it about Lee? All throughout the manga everyone assumed it, because Gai never once used anything but taijutsu, except for a summoning jutsu he only ever used once when he was introduced.

Also, what are the chances that Gai happens to get a student who has no talent for gen / ninjutsu, the exact same as him and his father? How can Lee not be related to Gai?

All of this would be making more sense if they introduced Lee as Gai's son and we got that whole backstory earlier. But now we get the entire thing right before he dies.
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Old 2014-03-14, 23:46   Link #62
strategos
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So, is summoning jutsu differente from ninjutsu? gai done it twice now.
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Old 2014-03-15, 04:38   Link #63
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
In this chapter it's stated that Guy can't use ninjutsy or genyutsy. Yet many chapters ago he used summoning jutsy.

Does summoning jutsy count as ninjutsy? Or did Kishi do a retcon?
This was many years before we see the current Gai summoning. Also the manga often exaggerates and instead of saying "you have no talent in something" it says "you can't do something", but that's very similar to real life. Even if Gai or Lee have no talent in something they will work hard for 10 or 20 years to do it, be it genjutsu disspelling or summoning. Naruto has no talent at genjutsu but he still learned how to disspell it. So just use common sense, nothing is black and white in real life. One of the recurring themes in such shonen manga is that if you work hard you will be able to overcome your limits eventually.
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Old 2014-03-15, 10:09   Link #64
The Small One
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Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
To be honest that whole "Gai can't use gen / ninjutsu" felt like it came way too late as well. Why didn't they say that when they said it about Lee? All throughout the manga everyone assumed it, because Gai never once used anything but taijutsu, except for a summoning jutsu he only ever used once when he was introduced.
Gai couldn't use it as a child.
But it's obvious that he can use it now.

But I agree, that it could have been mentioned earlier. For example when Lee was down, Guy could have said someting like "When I was a child, I couldn't use Ninjutsu as well, but since I learned it late, maybe you can do as well" or so.
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Old 2014-03-15, 10:09   Link #65
shalala
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Was there any reason into why Gai, his father and Lee where unable to use ninjustu?
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Old 2014-03-16, 06:26   Link #66
milan kyuubi
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We have been told since beginning that using 8 gate = death. And I still think this is true. At least for normal people like Guy.

But what about people who have special abilities? I am going to list a few scenarios/theories/questions.

1. Byakugou seal

If a person activates this regeneration ability just before using 8th gate. Would the person still die? Especially if they are only using 8th gate for a very short time period.

2. Sage Mode

This goes for all SM in NV!

As we have seen SM grants strong healing abilities (Hashi and Madara). And Naruto's durability was sky rocked.

3. Jinchūriki

Can they survive opening of the 8th gate. When the bijuu inside of them is constantly healing them. I know every bijuu and their seal is different. But to take as an example Kurama. he has been shown to heal mortal wound Naruto had with easy. If they are in bijuu mode would opening 8th gate still kill them?

4. Perfect Jinchūriki

Can they survive opening 8th gate? When their chakra is mixed with that of a bijuu. And will they still die if the bijuu takes the control of the body while opening/being in 8thgate?

5. Perfect Jinchūriki + Sage Mode


We have only seen Naruto do this. But seeing how both the PJ and SM are OP. Can they survive opening the 8th gate?

6. Juubito



7. Juubadara




If you have another theory feel free to post it!

Thoughts/Opinions?!
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Old 2014-03-16, 06:44   Link #67
Casshern
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I'm wondering if Guy really couldn't use ninjutsu like his father said. When Dai was going on with his monologue it looked like Guy was trying to say something but decided not to.

Anyway, I'm a little bit disappointed that Guy always ends up overshadowing Lee, and it looks like Lee might never surpass him now.
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Old 2014-03-16, 10:04   Link #68
sayde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shalala View Post
Was there any reason into why Gai, his father and Lee where unable to use ninjustu?
I don't believe we were ever given any kind of physiological explanation if that's what you're referring to. All we've been given is that for whatever the reason may be, they're all apparently talentless when it comes to using ninjutsu.
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Old 2014-03-16, 11:34   Link #69
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I don't believe we were ever given any kind of physiological explanation if that's what you're referring to. All we've been given is that for whatever the reason may be, they're all apparently talentless when it comes to using ninjutsu.
yea i guess whatever it takes to mold chakra they don't have it. but they do have chakra. as for summoning, all that is is making a contract and then using a blood offering right? sometimes there are seals and sometimes not (or kishi just doesn't feel like showing it). it would make more sense if gai used a scroll or something to help with the seals
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Old 2014-03-16, 20:42   Link #70
Artimus_Prime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
We have been told since beginning that using 8 gate = death. And I still think this is true. At least for normal people like Guy.

But what about people who have special abilities? I am going to list a few scenarios/theories/questions.

1. Byakugou seal

If a person activates this regeneration ability just before using 8th gate. Would the person still die? Especially if they are only using 8th gate for a very short time period.

2. Sage Mode

This goes for all SM in NV!

As we have seen SM grants strong healing abilities (Hashi and Madara). And Naruto's durability was sky rocked.

3. Jinchūriki

Can they survive opening of the 8th gate. When the bijuu inside of them is constantly healing them. I know every bijuu and their seal is different. But to take as an example Kurama. he has been shown to heal mortal wound Naruto had with easy. If they are in bijuu mode would opening 8th gate still kill them?

4. Perfect Jinchūriki

Can they survive opening 8th gate? When their chakra is mixed with that of a bijuu. And will they still die if the bijuu takes the control of the body while opening/being in 8thgate?

5. Perfect Jinchūriki + Sage Mode


We have only seen Naruto do this. But seeing how both the PJ and SM are OP. Can they survive opening the 8th gate?

6. Juubito



7. Juubadara




If you have another theory feel free to post it!

Thoughts/Opinions?!
(for me at least) an actual on screen death by 8th gate needs to occur so that we see how/what causes the death to make that determination.
if vaporizing blood as hinted this chapter is it then only the Byakugou seal makes sense, since thats the only state I can fathom the actual instantaneous regeneration of whole blood volume...but even then you still have to patch up the leak/close the gate.

i think what has really happening is Guy is a burning sheet of paper. he gets godlike taijustu for length of incineration but at the end he'll literally blow away into ashes....awesomeness


ps. i would venture a guess that kishi only intended for 8gate opening to make sense in ppl not "talented" in ninjutsu.
if lee is to surpass Guy, he is gonna have to gain access to some other form of chakra.
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Old 2014-03-17, 09:20   Link #71
james0246
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i think what has really happening is Guy is a burning sheet of paper. he gets godlike taijustu for length of incineration but at the end he'll literally blow away into ashes....awesomeness
I'd tend to agree. His blood will be burned away, then his body, and then finally his chakra.

There are just some techniques you shouldn't be able to come back from.
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Old 2014-03-17, 10:39   Link #72
JustRob
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The Akimichi red pill was such a technique as well, unfortunately Chouji came back from that.
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Old 2014-03-17, 15:25   Link #73
Cookie-Monster
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I dont think there's some great mystery regarding Gai's not being able to use ninjutsu.

I think it was just sloppy writing on Kishi's part; forced into the chapter in order to make the Father story more reminiscent of Gai/Lee.

As for the seven swordsmen. They were all alive during the scene with Gai's father, but by the time of the war, they were all dead.

One of them was killed by Akatsuki (the mist kage i think), and Kisame/Zabuza were also killed. Is there any info on how the others died? Maybe Gai`s father took out a few lol.
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Old 2014-03-17, 16:11   Link #74
JustRob
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I dunno. I don't get in the first place why the Seven Swordsmen would confront Gai and his buddies. They never seemed like a very tight organization, or teamplayers. And what importance could Gai have possibly had that made it necessary for all of them to go after him? This seems more like Kishi trying to say, "Look this technique is so strong that Gai's dad could hold off all Seven Swordsmen".

It seems obvious he got killed, maybe he took out a few, maybe not.
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Old 2014-03-17, 18:35   Link #75
GDB
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I'd tend to agree. His blood will be burned away, then his body, and then finally his chakra.

There are just some techniques you shouldn't be able to come back from.
In before Madara thinks he's won after his blood and body burn out, only to have an ethereal form of red chakra reappear and start beating him down for a while again.
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Old 2014-03-17, 19:05   Link #76
itachi-san314
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^to just prolong the exact same outcome as not having it happen in the first place
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Old 2014-03-17, 21:11   Link #77
sayde
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I'm all for having Gai sacrificing himself with the 8 gates. But only under the right circumstances. If he's gotta go out this way, I hope Kishi at least lets him do something to Madara that proves absolutely necessary towards his inevitable defeat--And I don't want this to mean that he only ends up serving the purpose of buying time for Naruto and Sasuke to come back into the picture. I want Gai to actually put some kind of small chink in the armor that leads to Madara's end.

Then it might be a worthy sacrifice.
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Old 2014-03-18, 00:50   Link #78
Uchiha Kesuke
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The red steam being blood and all that is pretty gangsta i have to say
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Old 2014-03-18, 09:10   Link #79
Artimus_Prime
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I'm all for having Gai sacrificing himself with the 8 gates. But only under the right circumstances. If he's gotta go out this way, I hope Kishi at least lets him do something to Madara that proves absolutely necessary towards his inevitable defeat--And I don't want this to mean that he only ends up serving the purpose of buying time for Naruto and Sasuke to come back into the picture. I want Gai to actually put some kind of small chink in the armor that leads to Madara's end.

Then it might be a worthy sacrifice.
much like kid gohan did to Raditz I'm picking up what you putting down lol
but in chapter 667 or the one before that, minato mentions that in addition to the sage mode, powerful taijutsu is the only other thing that could do madara harm...Enter Guy. meaning Guy isnt really going to uncover some unseen weakness. we already know what it is. whats most badass to me about this fight (at least im hoping) is that madara is gonna have to respect Guys hustle. he is going to have to give him his full attention and Guy wont be so easily disposed of like edo minato was that was such a shame by the way.


a fight without sage powers will not likely kill Madara..but since Guy is arguably the only one on the battlefield capable of godlike taijutsu (1 of 2 things that can hurt Madara), he could stall him until the sages are ready...thus his will be a worthy sacrifice.
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Old 2014-03-18, 09:45   Link #80
itachi-san314
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but in chapter 667 or the one before that, minato mentions that in addition to the sage mode, powerful taijutsu is the only other thing that could do madara harm...Enter Guy. meaning Guy isnt really going to uncover some unseen weakness. we already know what it is.
i dont know. he might uncover madara's fear of kittens
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