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View Poll Results: Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga Shitai! Ren - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 2 7.69%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 11 42.31%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 6 23.08%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 15.38%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 7.69%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 3.85%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2014-03-21, 19:54   Link #21
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyta View Post
Am I the only one that got vibes that Nibutani was trying to pair Yuuta with Satone? I mean she kept telling/showing him how bad Satone's feeling and expects him to do something. But what? Anything he would have done would be an insult to Satone, might be hurtful to Rikka in some way and just come off as cheap pity. I'm hoping she wasn't hoping he would ditch Rikka for Satone, but that's the feeling I got from her in this episode.

She just doesn't want any of her friends to be hurt, including Shichimiya.

Other than that, she wanted them to be honest with each other.
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Old 2014-03-21, 20:23   Link #22
novalysis
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I think you got confused because some times Yuuta gets to Shinka when he calls her out on her bullshit
I think everyone misunderstood what I meant when I said that Nibutani is Tsundere towards Yuuta. No, I am not implying that Nibutani has a crush on Yuuta - rather, Nibutani is a Tsundere platonic friend to Yuuta. If my "confusion" was seeing romantic patterns where there is none, that's a non-existent confusion.

That being said, it's fascinating to see Nibutani and Satone have much more chemistry with Yuuta, than Yuuta has with his girlfriend. I think that's one of the most intriguing features of Chuunibyou's character development.

Last edited by novalysis; 2014-03-21 at 20:33.
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Old 2014-03-21, 20:27   Link #23
ellessarr
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Originally Posted by zyta View Post
Am I the only one that got vibes that Nibutani was trying to pair Yuuta with Satone? I mean she kept telling/showing him how bad Satone's feeling and expects him to do something. But what? Anything he would have done would be an insult to Satone, might be hurtful to Rikka in some way and just come off as cheap pity. I'm hoping she wasn't hoping he would ditch Rikka for Satone, but that's the feeling I got from her in this episode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
She just doesn't want any of her friends to be hurt, including Shichimiya.

Other than that, she wanted them to be honest with each other.
yep she just wanted then not keep this "quo" status who is common in anime, the mc dont like the girl but he is unable to say that because or he dont know what to do or dont want to hurt the girl even dont liking her, nibutani was trying to make then just go and say what their really want(yuuta explain who he only love rikka or sophia say to yuuta who she love he), instead to keep that weird stats between then.

one thing i liked is who yuuta really not "dense" at last not at kodaka's level" he get the message but too late(after her cry face), who she love him but he dont know what to do( omg in japan is so hard say "i dont like you or i only love rikka") really japanese romance omg is really annoying, with peoples who are or too much dense or too much shy or too much something who make then hard express their true feelings.
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Old 2014-03-21, 20:32   Link #24
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I'm not claiming that Shinka has a crush on Yuuta - that's ridiculous. Rather, the way that Shinka acts towards Yuuta is Tsundere - in the sense of a Tsundere friendship rather than romantic partnership. Though, if Yuuta wasn't taken, it would probably be a very interesting dynamics that would have generated shippping.
The core of being a tsundere is not being honest about your feelings. For example if Shinka's asked if she cares about Deko, she's going to deny it (and Deko would deny it too). Of course, the passive-aggressive behavior is part of the trope as well, but not being honest about your feelings is definitely the main feature. But Shinka is always honest and upfront with (and about) Yuuta. Sometimes she's harsh with him (like in this episode), but that's because he can be really exasperating sometimes. Being tsundere is something different.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2014-03-21 at 20:49.
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Old 2014-03-21, 21:12   Link #25
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I think Nibutani wanted Satone to be true to herself. Nibutani didn't think Yuuta would ditch Rikka, or want that, but wanted Satone to be honest and find closure for herself instead of using the devil hunter thing as an escape route for her feelings.
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Old 2014-03-21, 22:35   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyta View Post
Am I the only one that got vibes that Nibutani was trying to pair Yuuta with Satone?
I think that Nibutani was just trying to spur Yuuta into action. Yuuta can be a bit too passive sometimes, particularly when it comes to the emotional well-being of the people close to him (he's generally excellent on the physical well-being side, but he doesn't always get that the emotional side can be just as important as the physical side).

If Yuuta actually dumped Rikka and started dating Satone, I'm pretty confident that Nibutani would have been pissed with him over that.

However, I will say this - Satone is a childhood friend of Nibutani's, and so it's possible that Nibutani couldn't bring herself to explicitly take a position against Satone (in the sense of "Now, Yuuta, you obviously should stay faithful to Rikka and let Satone down easily"). Nibutani probably feels that this is more or less what Yuuta should do, but she didn't want to stamp on Satone's feelings by explicitly "choosing sides". I think that might be partly why she didn't have much specific advice for Yuuta.

Long story short, Nibutani probably felt that Yuuta had to address Satone's feelings for him head-on, and not just ignore them. How Yuuta addressed that would be up to him, but he did need to address them.
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Old 2014-03-21, 22:59   Link #27
HandofFate
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I think I missed the part of the reveal with Satone knowing Nibutani? Was there any flashbacks? Or was it just "hey, i remember you" and Nibutani going "ahhh"
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Old 2014-03-21, 23:06   Link #28
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
I think I missed the part of the reveal with Satone knowing Nibutani? Was there any flashbacks? Or was it just "hey, i remember you" and Nibutani going "ahhh"
The episode when Shinka was running for student council president. Shichimiya commented they knew each other in middle school. She confirms that Shinka is Mori Summer and Deko begins to act all nice around her, remember?
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Old 2014-03-21, 23:14   Link #29
ellessarr
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Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
I think I missed the part of the reveal with Satone knowing Nibutani? Was there any flashbacks? Or was it just "hey, i remember you" and Nibutani going "ahhh"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The episode when Shinka was running for student council president. Shichimiya commented they knew each other in middle school. She confirms that Shinka is Mori Summer and Deko begins to act all nice around her, remember?
and also we have some little flashback showing then together in middle school with nibutani others old friends we even have a lite episode showing her old 4 chunibyou team try to summon a angel or demon i dont recall.
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Old 2014-03-22, 02:05   Link #30
novalysis
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The core of being a tsundere is not being honest about your feelings. For example if Shinka's asked if she cares about Deko, she's going to deny it (and Deko would deny it too). Of course, the passive-aggressive behavior is part of the trope as well, but not being honest about your feelings is definitely the main feature. But Shinka is always honest and upfront with (and about) Yuuta. Sometimes she's harsh with him (like in this episode), but that's because he can be really exasperating sometimes. Being tsundere is something different.
Being dishonest of your feelings is a necessary, but not sufficient condition to be a Tsundere. If it was a sufficient condition, a shrinking Violet who could not spit out her feelings to some she has a crush on is a Tsundere - which I don't think is in anyone's conception of the Tsundere.

No, another necessary condition for a Tsundere is a contrast between two modes of behavior - a harsh and aggressive mode of behavior, and a tender, gentler, softer side to the character. It is this second condition that makes me identify being a Tsundere to her friends.

Furthermore, said feelings need not necessarily be romantic. Nibutabni is clearly fond of both Rika and Yuuta as friends, but with regards to Yuuta, the true depth of their friendship goes unacknowledged by both sides, but in Nibutani's case, it's characterized by altering between being a supportive and true friend for Yuuta, and being harsh to Yuuta.

Finally, even if Nibutani wasn't a tsundere, much of her dialogues resembles that of a Tsundere - think of how she flips between trying to wash her hands of the situation, and then doing a 360 and getting involved once again.

At no time was I implying that Nibutani necessarily have romantic feelings for Yuuta. Perhaps, in another world, if Chuunibyou was a VN format, it's possible to see how Nibutani and Yuuta might have fallen for one another. But in Chuunibyou, Yuuta's relationship with Rikka has closed all other romantic probabilities. However, given the dynamics between Yuuta and Nibutani, there's indeed quite alot of chemistry.

I think the closure of any romantic possibilities, and the idea of chemistry is the core of this season. Satone knows that all possibilities for a Romantic relationship with Yuuta has been closed. Rikka distinctively feels the inferiority in romantic chemistry between her and Yuuta, which is driving her actions this season, including the pursuit over the "Dark Flame Dragon."

I am glad that this thread and forum particular has not yet embraced the "this season is useless" mentality that seems to have taken hold in much of the International viewer-base. If the purpose of the season was to demonstrate how the Confession is not the end of the story, it has succeeded dramatically.

Kyoani has done wonders avoiding the temptation to drag Chuunibyou into a cliche harem story with their excellent handling of Satone and Nibutani. Even Rikka has gone through character development, with her insecurity over the true depth of her relation with Yuuta. And in many ways, fathering Rikka has actually made Yuuta even more mature this season, in a way that feels very natural.

Perhaps the main short coming of the season has been that, at this time, we don't have a clue how a Post- Chuunibyou Rikka would develop. I think the lack of a hint of how Rikka is going to develop a personality that can function as an adult has motivated the "Rikka's Chuunibyou is bad" chorus I've been hearing this season. On the other hand, I get the sense that Rikka is an extreme introvert who only manages to overcome her introvertness by a mask of Chuunibyou. She is struggling to negotiate an identity, while seeing her peers forge ahead in creating dynamic, and interesting identities that can function well in society. I think the concern is that Rikka has no real personality beyond that Chuunibyou, other than the highly withdrawn, harmless and reclusive girl.

The scary thing is, I think Rikka might end up constructing her identity around her relationship with Yuuta. Which means if anything ever happens to Yuuta, Rikka would be a shattered wreck of herself, as the basis for her identity disappears. Dark thoughts... dark thoughts. It does say alot when Dekomori is further along in constructing her identity than Rikka.

Indeed, if Chuunibyou's purpose is a coming of age story on the theme of Identity, the second season is a worthy successor of the first, dealing with ideas of identity that emerged from the social dynamics that are generated by the fact that Rikka and Yuuta are couples. Infact, the second season has been much kinder on the secondary characters than the first - Shinka and Dekomori develops significant depths, even Kumin starts becoming more than a one dimensional one trick napping pony. And Satone Schichimiya is a wonderful addition to the cast - Kyoani really when very far navigating around the pitfalls of introducing a new character, and avoiding easily reached for cliches.

Infact, Satone, Shinka and Dekomori could easily form an entertaining and deep slice of life cast, even without their Chuunibyou personalities. Shinka as the straight lace over achiever, yet solid pillar, Satone as the dynamic Genki Girl who tries to live life to the fullest, and Dekomori who has a formal Ojou personality with trollish tendencies, which in reality hides a girl with a rough and brash, attention-seeking personality.

Finally, if Dekomori ever married, the poor bloke would probably quickly discover that the marriage interview personality is a sham. That would be a very entertaining story on it's own.
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Old 2014-03-22, 02:14   Link #31
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Nibutani is awesome. I really can't stop seeing her as a female Yuuta in the series. Except like 10 times more of a wingman. She also seems to be the orgin Chuunibyou. She infected Dekomori, Satone who brought about the Dark Flame Master who brought about Tyrants eye. It seems you can trace the origins of all chuunibyou in the series to Mori Summer.
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Old 2014-03-22, 02:44   Link #32
Kazu-kun
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Being dishonest of your feelings is a necessary, but not sufficient condition to be a Tsundere. If it was a sufficient condition, a shrinking Violet who could not spit out her feelings to some she has a crush on is a Tsundere - which I don't think is in anyone's conception of the Tsundere.

No, another necessary condition for a Tsundere is a contrast between two modes of behavior - a harsh and aggressive mode of behavior, and a tender, gentler, softer side to the character. It is this second condition that makes me identify being a Tsundere to her friends.
Yeah, both conditions are important, but Shinka doesn't fulfill the first one. Besides, Shinka's aggressive behavior only comes around when dealing with her friends doing something stupid, like Yuuta trying to avoid dealing with Shichimiya's feelings. A tsundere, on the other hand, gets aggressive to hid her real feelings.

You're mixing normal passive-aggressive behavior with being a tsundere. These are totally different things.
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Old 2014-03-22, 03:04   Link #33
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Yeah, both conditions are important, but Shinka doesn't fulfill the first one. Besides, Shinka's aggressive behavior only comes around when dealing with her friends doing something stupid, like Yuuta trying to avoid dealing with Shichimiya's feelings. A tsundere, on the other hand, gets aggressive to hid her real feelings.

You're mixing normal passive-aggressive behavior with being a tsundere. These are totally different things.
She almost feels like s strict Onee-chan type than a tsundere. Usually she's only harsh with Dekomori when she's doing something insane... which is 90% of the time. She's also a bit mischievous when it comes to Dekomori, like with a rubberband shot to the head during a representative speech.
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Old 2014-03-22, 04:35   Link #34
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^ To be fair, sometimes Shinka is tsundere for Dekomori. Not by being violent, but when she denies that she cares about her. That's totally tsundere.

Same with Deko. She's all the time "who cares about this fake Mori?" yet deep down she's crazy about her. That's tsundere.
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Old 2014-03-22, 07:20   Link #35
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Honestly, Kazu-kun, I think you might be being a bit too quick in shooting down the idea of Nibutani being tsundere towards Yuuta.

Here's a mental test that I think is applicable - Suppose a new transfer student walked into Nibutani's class. This transfer student takes note of how much time Nibutani spends with Yuuta, but the transfer student also notices how Yuuta and Rikka are in a transparent relationship together. So the transfer student asks Nibutani "Is Yuuta your friend?"

Would Nibutani answer "Yeah, he's my friend. Just friends though, so don't get the wrong idea!" or would she deny it with something like "I'm friends with Rikka, who happens to go out with that guy. So I try to give him some advice for her sake."?

I'm honestly not confident over this. And if Nibutani answers with implicit denial, then that is being tsundere about it.


Mind you, this is a bit academic. The main thing Nibutani is tsundere towards isn't Yuuta, and it isn't even Dekomori. It's chuunibyou itself.
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Old 2014-03-22, 07:27   Link #36
Kazu-kun
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Here's a mental test that I think is applicable - Suppose a new transfer student walked into Nibutani's class. This transfer student takes note of how much time Nibutani spends with Yuuta, but the transfer student also notices how Yuuta and Rikka are in a transparent relationship together. So the transfer student asks Nibutani "Is Yuuta your friend?"

Would Nibutani answer "Yeah, he's my friend. Just friends though, so don't get the wrong idea!" or would she deny it with something like "I'm friends with Rikka, who happens to go out with that guy. So I try to give him some advice for her sake."?
Imo she would just says "Yeah, he's my friend." She wouldn't even try to explain they're just friends unless asked about it.

That's the impression I get at least.

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The main thing Nibutani is tsundere towards isn't Yuuta, and it isn't even Dekomori. It's chuunibyou itself.
True, but in a way Dekomori and her past as Mori Summer go hand in hand because Deko is the main device the writer uses to spark Shinka's internal conflict. This is most evident in the stalker episode as Shinka finds herself in danger of losing both her identity as Mori Summer and Dekomori at the same time, and even though she struggles to admit it, both are really important to her.
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Old 2014-03-22, 07:55   Link #37
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Spectacular and beautiful world banishment this time! That's really my main reason for watching this, but it is also refreshing to see a boy surrounded by pretty, cute, lively girls who don't react to him romantically. Glad to see his childhood friend got over her sudden infatuation ... or did she?
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Old 2014-03-22, 08:43   Link #38
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I'm not sure I'm getting everything that is going on this episode. Especially the whole Mori Summer conversation with Sophia to look outward to understand your inner self. So the thing about Sophia battle with the Dark Flame Master is just simply so she can let out her pant up stress of her unrequited feelings? Is that it?

If that's the case, it kind of reminds me the S1 ep. 12 where Yuuta "Banishment this World" in order to give Rikka the moment to say goodbye to her dad.

And I agree with Novelysis speculation based on the novel.
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Old 2014-03-22, 11:42   Link #39
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However, I will say this - Satone is a childhood friend of Nibutani's
No, she's not. If they were, they would have known each other since they were very young and grew up together. However, nothing in the show indicates that this is true (unless I missed that, of course).

Rather, IIRC, it was shown that they met each other in middle school and became friends there, so that makes them school friends. Same goes for Yuuta and Satone, BTW.
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Old 2014-03-22, 12:38   Link #40
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@Lord of Fire - Good grief, man, talk about pointless semantics hair-splitting. It doesn't make any significant difference to the point that I was making. The point there is simply that Nibutani was friends in the past with Satone, which is true.

Besides, your own approach to "childhood friends" is questionable itself. I'm pretty sure there are some pairs of anime characters that are widely considered childhood friends even though they didn't "grow up together". I'm talking about pairs that were friends for a brief period of time in their childhood, so they didn't exactly "grow up together".
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