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Old 2014-03-27, 13:43   Link #81
Avaricia
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Originally Posted by Kagetsuchi View Post
I haven't posted for awhile i generally lurk because i haven't been really watching much anime because of life.

But my god you guys have no idea how disappointed i am with this ass pull, I'm done not even gonna finish the manga now kishmoto just threw logic out the window on this one i know its a shounen but seriously reincarnation ass pull is the most laziest way to write in a win.

I mean what about light and dark kurama put in naruto so he has full 8tails, and since kubuto just saved sasuke with hashirama cell he coulda been the best candidate for the rinnegan. But no we got your the reincarnation of the 2 original OP ninjas my god I'm so done with this now.

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Old 2014-03-27, 14:27   Link #82
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I'm glad I'm not alone on this cause it was indeed garbage.
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Old 2014-03-27, 15:12   Link #83
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Dear God, I can't believe people are actually making YouTube videos about singular Naruto chapters. I thought I had way too much free time.
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Old 2014-03-27, 15:29   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Avaricia View Post
I agree with a lot of what the reviewer is saying, but honestly, all that hard work > genetics & destiny rhetoric bullshit has been meaningless since Naruto’s heritage was revealed to be “special”. If you are the son of one of the greatest Kages of the villages history, and also part of some old & famous clan with special abilities like “strong life force”, chances are you are going to be a pretty prominent ninja –regardless of whether or not you inherit Ashura’s chakra. So really, the meaning of the manga has been ruined for quite a while now, so this development didn't really change that much.

I don’t know how most people feel about this these days, but I think some people don’t have a problem with this because Naruto has been an “underdog” for the majority of part I, and it can be pretty satisfying to see an underdog reach dizzying heights of prominence… It serves as proof for what we love to believe: hard work will pay off, and as long as you put in the effort, you can even defeat those who are more talented than you.
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Old 2014-03-27, 15:44   Link #85
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Originally Posted by Artful Dodger View Post
I agree with a lot of what the reviewer is saying, but honestly, all that hard work > genetics & destiny rhetoric bullshit has been meaningless since Naruto’s heritage was revealed to be “special”.
But having powerful parents doesn't necessarily mean you will have charisma, hard-work ethic, and endless tenacity. That was supposed to be what was special about Naruto like his charismatic speeches that seems to compel everyone. But now, it turns out that even these qualities of his are because of some magic chakra he apparently inherited.

He's given the most powerful bijuu on earth, has exceptional genetics, and also inherits chakra from the Sage's son... It kind of seems stupid now remembering him whine about having to work through his "situation", considering how much of an extrodinary situation he actually has. Even the things he supposedly worked "hard" for, how hard did he really work, when you consider he's always done things in record time, like learn sage-mode in two weeks?

And, like the reviewer says, this is all apparently prophecy and predetermined for the most part so it kind of ruins the build up...

Last edited by Owlman; 2014-03-27 at 16:01.
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Old 2014-03-27, 16:07   Link #86
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The sage already said that Naruto didn't inherit any talent and whatnot that he had to work hard to get to where he's at, the fact that he's the reincarnate of his son doesn't change that. He was still talentless and needed the drive and spirit to work harder than anyone to accomplish their goals.
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Old 2014-03-27, 17:35   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Owlman View Post
But having powerful parents doesn't necessarily mean you will have charisma, hard-work ethic, and endless tenacity. That was supposed to be what was special about Naruto like his charismatic speeches that seems to compel everyone. But now, it turns out that even these qualities of his are because of some magic chakra he apparently inherited.

He's given the most powerful bijuu on earth, has exceptional genetics, and also inherits chakra from the Sage's son... It kind of seems stupid now remembering him whine about having to work through his "situation", considering how much of an extrodinary situation he actually has. Even the things he supposedly worked "hard" for, how hard did he really work, when you consider he's always done things in record time, like learn sage-mode in two weeks?

And, like the reviewer says, this is all apparently prophecy and predetermined for the most part so it kind of ruins the build up...
You have it completely backwards. Him getting Sage Mode in two weeks doesn't mean he didn't have to work hard. He was able to achieve Sage Mode in two weeks because he worked so hard. Naruto always works harder than anyone else, and is determined to achieve what he has set his mind to. That's what has always been his greatest quality.

And we honestly don't know yet how literal we should take "reincarnated".
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Old 2014-03-27, 17:36   Link #88
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-I like how the guy in the video completely neglects one thing. Alright so it turns out Naruto is actually uber-special and part of some prophecy. And? Does that make all his accomplishments up to this point null and void? A child does not get to choose his birth, his parents or his heritage. What he can however choose, is how to build his own path, which is what Naruto's been doing since Ch.1. Last I checked, being Minato and Kushina's son never gave him any privileges. Being some destiny child didn't grant him an automatic win against Nagato.

-Honestly, people were spouting the same accusation when Minato was revealed to be his father. Granted that one was a little too obvious, but still people complained the same way: that being the 4th Hokage's son undermines his worth as the hard-working character.
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Old 2014-03-27, 19:03   Link #89
itachi-san314
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well let's not forget in part 1 it was established that the kyuubi chakra was a major hindrance for naruto to work through until jiraiya re-sealed it. it explains his genetics not helping him much until after he met jiraiya. i actually like this added reincarnation angle too. it's another way for naruto to be gifted and require the hardwork of an underdog to be powerful
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Old 2014-03-27, 20:08   Link #90
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well let's not forget in part 1 it was established that the kyuubi chakra was a major hindrance for naruto to work through until jiraiya re-sealed it. it explains his genetics not helping him much until after he met jiraiya. i actually like this added reincarnation angle too. it's another way for naruto to be gifted and require the hardwork of an underdog to be powerful
Exactly.
Ashura was the son of the sage and he still was a flunky. Soooooooooo what are talkin bout again? Oh yeah. This chapter has not undermined hardwork.

I hope sasuke gets his version of the talk.

Ps. This is likely the coincidental time in history where the tree sprouts another one of those fruits. Which makes madara raditz and stronger saiyans are on the way. (Just let me dream
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Last edited by Artimus_Prime; 2014-04-03 at 10:24.
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Old 2014-03-27, 20:44   Link #91
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Yes I thought this was almost certainly a matrix nod Kishi made and my inner neo fanboy was jumping buildings.
I don't think that's a matrix nod although I understand why you would think that with the translation. In Japanese the Sage begins his speech in a very archaic and formal form that Naruto doesn't understand. That's why he shifts to Naruto's way of speaking (like a young and rude moron wearing an orange suit) which Naruto find weird but more comprehensible and finally shift again to a normal way of speaking. Basically the Sage started talking in Middle English, then in urban slang and finally in modern English
The difference in speech patterns are often lost in translation.
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Old 2014-03-27, 23:59   Link #92
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Some interesting stuff, but I didn't like how they just pulled this out of nowhere. Seems so sudden and random, not to mention I feel like there's a good amount that's being left out. Like why did Indra not cooperate and go against Ashura? What happened to Hagoromo's brother?
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Old 2014-03-28, 00:47   Link #93
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You have it completely backwards. Him getting Sage Mode in two weeks doesn't mean he didn't have to work hard. He was able to achieve Sage Mode in two weeks because he worked so hard.[/I]
Jiraiya was also a very hard worker and late bloomer, yet he couldn't master it in that short length of time, nor to that extent. Therefore, I'm not going to chalk that up to simply hard-work, that's ridiculous, and if you really believe that you're deluding yourself. To be able to do what Naruto did in two weeks, there is clearly another factor at play here besides just hard work.

Quote:
And we honestly don't know yet how literal we should take "reincarnated".
It seems pretty obvious that inheriting the chakra provided the Naruto with Ashura's defining traits and potential, not that Naruto is actually Ashura re-born.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
well let's not forget in part 1 it was established that the kyuubi chakra was a major hindrance for naruto to work through until jiraiya re-sealed it. it explains his genetics not helping him much until after he met jiraiya. i actually like this added reincarnation angle too. it's another way for naruto to be gifted and require the hardwork of an underdog to be powerful
No, Jiraiyas re-sealing was to counter the 5 elements seal that Orochimaru placed on Naruto. It was actually this 5-element seal which disrupted the kyuubi's flow of chakra into him as well as his own natural chakra.
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Old 2014-03-28, 01:07   Link #94
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Originally Posted by Owlman View Post
Jiraiya was also a very hard worker and late bloomer, yet he couldn't master it in that short length of time, nor to that extent. Therefore, I'm not going to chalk that up to simply hard-work, that's ridiculous, and if you really believe that you're deluding yourself. To be able to do what Naruto did in two weeks, there is clearly another factor at play here besides just hard work.
Naruto Clone Training. Jiraiya could never have pulled that off. Naruto is gaining exp at a x100 rate here.



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It seems pretty obvious that inheriting the chakra provided the Naruto with Ashura's defining traits and potential, not that Naruto is actually Ashura re-born.
I think being Kushina's son is what gave Naruto his defining trait.



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Originally Posted by Owlman View Post
No, Jiraiyas re-sealing was to counter the 5 elements seal that Orochimaru placed on Naruto. It was actually this 5-element seal which disrupted the kyuubi's flow of chakra into him as well as his own natural chakra.
This is correct.
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Old 2014-03-28, 02:32   Link #95
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I think naruto might have this "ghost" in him, but it doesn't seem to be pointing in him in one direction. Naruto is still making his own decisions and his own choices. When he found sasuke again he told himself that he could have easily been on the other side trying to destroy instead of save.

Hard work is still the main point. Because the sage said that his son was useless beyond useless. That he used hard work to become just as great as his older brother. Same thing itachi told naruto, that if he tosses his friends away and takes everything on his shoulders it will be his downfall because he would be throwing away the thing that makes him powerful. Relationships.
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Old 2014-03-28, 02:55   Link #96
Owlman
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Naruto Clone Training. Jiraiya could never have pulled that off. Naruto is gaining exp at a x100 rate here.
Which proves my point, it took more than hard work alone.

Quote:
I think being Kushina's son is what gave Naruto his defining trait.
Naruto inherited Ashura's chakra, which the sage confirmed when recognizing Ashura's defining traits in Naruto.

Last edited by Owlman; 2014-03-28 at 03:08.
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Old 2014-03-28, 03:27   Link #97
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Which proves my point, it took more than hard work alone.
-Except he still had to learn to control it, clones or not. He had them sure, but he was only allowed 3 and was told immediately that if he had any more than that, he'd likely die (being turned into a frog statue). And technically, he was never allowed to complete it what with frog-sensei not allowed to fuse with him due to Kurama not being a lover of frog legs. In addition to Sage training, he also spent time perfecting Rasenshuriken so yeah, all hard work here. I like to equate his Clone Training to someone playing Demons's Souls or Dark Souls, where each and every death brings in new info.
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Old 2014-03-28, 06:08   Link #98
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Of all things in this chapter i'm most curious about Hagoromo's brother.Oddly enough with all the parallels and junk i don't feel this is an asspull.Everyone in this story seems to have an opposite.
Also i get the feeling that maybe Hagoromo is/was actually more the Sasuke of the two (you know with the eyes).But with this thing just coming up now and with the brother,and zero information other then he existed,it's impossible to say anything about his personality.Besides it was Hagoromo's son that influenced his feelings not his brother.
And those are rabbit ears on his mom huh.I remember there's a Japanese legend about a rabbit and the moon.It's the kindest of the animals or something like that.Yeah i know google it.
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Old 2014-03-28, 06:33   Link #99
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Owlman View Post
No, Jiraiyas re-sealing was to counter the 5 elements seal that Orochimaru placed on Naruto. It was actually this 5-element seal which disrupted the kyuubi's flow of chakra into him as well as his own natural chakra.
yea that's true. it doesn't change the point that the kyuubi's chakra wasn't helping him at that point though

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Which proves my point, it took more than hard work alone.
but the same could be said about any ninja with magical powers. they're all pre-disposed to do something extraordinary that someone else couldn't do with just hard work alone
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Old 2014-03-28, 09:13   Link #100
Artimus_Prime
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Some interesting stuff, but I didn't like how they just pulled this out of nowhere. Seems so sudden and random, not to mention I feel like there's a good amount that's being left out. Like why did Indra not cooperate and go against Ashura? What happened to Hagoromo's brother?
yeah, but it wasnt really pulled out of nowhere. the story has been heading this direction at least since the reveal of the leader of the akatsuki and the rinnegan. and all the stories directly concerning the sage before now have been third hand, so its expected that hearing things from the sage would provide info that others were not aware of. also, nothings being "left out." we are being told a story. since this wasnt the end of the manga we are just going to have to wait until the rest of this stuff gets revealed
though you are right to be wary…I'm still waiting to see if sage training from a slug exists (since the reveal of snake senjutsu)

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Of all things in this chapter i'm most curious about Hagoromo's brother.Oddly enough with all the parallels and junk i don't feel this is an asspull.Everyone in this story seems to have an opposite.
Also i get the feeling that maybe Hagoromo is/was actually more the Sasuke of the two (you know with the eyes).But with this thing just coming up now and with the brother,and zero information other then he existed,it's impossible to say anything about his personality.Besides it was Hagoromo's son that influenced his feelings not his brother.
i agree its not an asspull. and yes the sage's brother is quite the intrigue. i mean we've gotten 670 chapters from only half of Kaguya's lineage. so there is a lot left hanging out there. im personal a bit more interested in the origin of the tree and fruit. we may not ever know where kaguya came from but she knew about that tree and came to "earth" i suppose, to acquire its power
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