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Old 2004-04-28, 16:31   Link #1
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
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Ninjitsu VS Swordplay [Anime]

Hello again.

I have a wierd question. Does the Naruto style Ninjistu where they are summoning Giant creatures and blasting powers everywhere make them untouchable by anyone except a fellow Ninja?

Naruto is now my second favourite anime (After Rurouni Kenshin ofcourse). The difference between the two anime in terms of the battles is quite huge. Rurouni Kenshin keeps the action on a non-collosal level. However the reason i made this thread is because im curious if you think a good swordsman would easily hand a naruto world ninja their ass.

Im tip toeing around the corny XXXX VS XXXX!!! type thread becae those quickly kill a forum, but ultimately it comes down to that.

Take Kenshin for example. Asume he is back to his Battousai days and he has no problems lopping of kakashi's head.

Now we can safely assume that the best swords men (kenshin , shishio, hiko, soujiro etc etc) dont fall for cheap gimicks like duplicates or illusuions. Remember Kenshin defeated Aoshi who was himself a prodijy ninja even when he did that crazy illusion technique of his.

Anyway, what it comes down to is one thing .... swords dont allow you get up again. Rock lee had crazy mad speed and was able to penetrate gaara's defence. When Kiba fought naruto he was able to get sooo many hits on the basis of how fast he was moving alone.

Skills like Byakuggen and Sharingan become useless because the opponenent is using neither Chakra nor are they forming seals you can copy.

Now swordmen like Kenshin, Soujiro and Hiko all have godlike (dissapear type) speed. If one second kakashi and Battousai are staring each other down ready to fight, kakashi will not have time to form any seals. I doubt hell even be able to see Battousai attack before his head goes flying off. The affair would be over in an instant if Kenshin decided to attack first and use his succession technique. The super-godlike speed + the ferocity of the attack = kakashi joins Obito.

Hopefully ive managed to mould this thread so that its not the gay XXX VS XXX!! type garbage, so please feel free to voice your opinion.

Last edited by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu; 2004-04-28 at 17:58.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:37   Link #2
acidblue
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Hmmmm,

quote
"kakashi will not have time to form any seals"
^^^^^ I don't think he needs to he is a ninja....

....The whole replace yourself with a log, chidori, etc. He is fast ,he can run up trees(using chakra course) so i think he could dodge quite well. I think he could handle his own with a blade too(not to kenshin level). then come the kunais Fire jutsu's etc..

Some how i see this turning into a X VS X thread quickly

EDIT note: I think that better gets at what i was saying
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:39   Link #3
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
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Kakashi is fast indeed but i dont think he is too fast. Speed is not his strong point. That realm belongs to the likes of Gai.

Last edited by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu; 2004-04-28 at 18:01.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:41   Link #4
Blitz59
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Well, lots of characters in naruto have swords, gamabunta, zabuza, Oro and the third do some swordplay there awhile..so swords aren't really alien in naruto just that they are too cumbersome(you can't form seals with a sword except if your name is haku) so that's probably why nobody uses them, also ninjas rely on stealth a huge 2m katana is not very stealthy. Besides some guys have no use for weapons, say Neji, Kimi etc.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:44   Link #5
7thMethuselah
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Well, seeing as Kenshin's power is based on two things : first of all his insane speed and second his knowledge of martial arts in general if he were to face kakashi or any other decent Ninja I think he wouldn't last too long.

It is impossible to predict for him what the enemy will do nor does have any decent form of defense against it. You can't really block fireballs. Shuriken like attack would probably not be a problem. But summons, replacements, shadow clones, mind control techniques or even stuff like kaiten or gaara's sand etc... he can't really deal with those. After all Kenshin is human while most shinobi aren't

Also shinobi fight dirty in a way : any way to win counts so alot of their tactics are hide/backstab while Kenshin is more of a fair fight guy.

Sharingan and Byukagan aren't useless however, they can be used to see chakra and hands seals but they can also be used to see Kenshin's speed thus improving the users chance to defend.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:50   Link #6
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
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I see your point.

But what i am getting at is this.

Rock lee was able to land numerous hits on gaara because of his speed.

Kiba was able to attack naruto so fast that naruto could crack otu his replication.

It would matter what Kakashi did. Kenshin has has godlike speed. Too fast too dodge or parry. If he didnt give a kakashi a chance to attack and started the fight right off the bat he would win.

I just dont see how a ninja would be able to handle kenshin succession technique. The speed and the sword and the ferocity of the attack would be like a death sentence.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:50   Link #7
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If we're really going to discuss comparative powerlevels, I'd say that the top swordsmen of Rurouni Kenshin would be able to compete with the top genin. Basically, they have no ninjutsu nor genjutsu, so the best thing is to compare them to Rock Lee. The most impressive feats we've seen in RK are running so fast you vanish, swinging so fast you create a vortex that sucks in air, etc. At the height of his power, Kenshin broke the stone floor with his step as he performed his ougi, which drains much of his strength. Rock Lee can also run so fast he can't be seen (he's probably as fast or faster than Sojiro, who is faster than Kenshin). He can also break the floor with his hand-to-hand techniques. If he further opens a gate, he can now destroy more of the landscape than we've ever seen devastated in Rurouni Kenshin. The only thing he's missing is a sword.

Now I wouldn't want to have to say exactly which of the RK characters could beat Rock Lee and which could not, but we do know that Rock would definitely be pretty high up in the RK world. He'd at least be able to beat Sanosuke, who doesn't use a sword either, and wouldn't be able to hit him with the Zanbatou. So anyway, this places the Kenshin world in at most the league of the genins. Start introducing people like Gai or Kakashi, and they would most definitely own anybody from RK.

Btw, to whoever said Kakashi isn't fast: i'm pretty sure he's faster than any of the genin.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:50   Link #8
psycoking
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So far in Naruto we have seen some ninja's use swords. Oro is one example, and that guy who refereed the prelims to the chuunin exam finals is another. But in reallity I think it depends on the ninja. That sand juunin easily defeated the chuunin exam guy with a wind ninjitsu. Where as. . .
Spoiler for 23rd/24th volume:


It all depends on what the ninja's/swordman's individual strengths and weekneeses are.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:53   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acidblue
Hmmmm,

quote
"kakashi will not have time to form any seals"
^^^^^ I don't think he needs to he is a ninja....

....The whole replace yourself with a log, chidori, etc. He is fast ,he can run up trees(using chakra course) so i think he could dodge quite well. I think he could handle his own with a blade too(not to kenshin level). then come the kunais Fire jutsu's etc..

Some how i see this turning into a X VS X thread quickly

EDIT note: I think that better gets at what i was saying
True, but if you're saying that there's no such thing as chakra in this battle, then Kakashi's fucked. He wouldn't be able to use his Sharingan, bushin, kawamiri (sp?)(replacement), chidori, etc. I like both animes, but if it came to a battle with real life conditions, Kenshin would probably own Kakashi, but not after he took a few blows himself.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:54   Link #10
Blitz59
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I just got an idea..imagine Rock Lee mastering the sword arts and wielding some great magic katana with chakra leeching powers..man he could whoop even the heaviest ninjutsu users then!
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:56   Link #11
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
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I see what you mean. But i dont think you can compare rock lee's speed to soujiro's. Rock Lee could be seen when he moved. (Only Chouji's fat eyes could keep up )

When soujiro attacked on the other hand, he completely dissapeared, and not even Kenshin could follow his movements. Rocklee could still be seen, its just that the sand couldnt keep up.

Remember that these elite swords man, dont just swing swords. They are the best when it comes to killing you with that sword. So if Battousai attacks at god like speed and nearly vanishes, only the best ninjas would be able to survive.
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:57   Link #12
sarcasteak
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So far most of the standard ANBUs (not cloaked) we've seen in the anime and manga carry a katana, but I really doubt the necessity of it.

Spoiler for possible insignificant manga reference:
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Old 2004-04-28, 16:59   Link #13
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
So far most of the standard ANBUs (not cloaked) we've seen in the anime and manga carry a katana, but I really doubt the necessity of it.

Spoiler for possible insignificant manga reference:

Anyone can carry a Katana. Its your skill with it that makes the difference.
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Old 2004-04-28, 17:01   Link #14
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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People have tecniques that stop weapons, though.

If all you needed was a sword and sword techniques, Hayate's name wouldn't be on that monument.

And Kakashi has speed...when he needs it. The "Lightning Edge" got its nickname from Kakashi cutting a bolt of lightning with it once. That's pretty damn fast.

Would Battousai Kenshin allow Kakashi to activate the Chidori? If so, he's probably dead.

Kenshin would absolutely have no shot at some of the characters that appear later in the manga, though.
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Old 2004-04-28, 17:03   Link #15
The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
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Indeed but those characters get a a bit out of hand in terms of what they can do lol =)

By the way, your avatar cracks me up lol

I laughed so hard when i saw that guy in the Chuinin exam. Naruto developers have a wierd sense of humor.
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Old 2004-04-28, 17:11   Link #16
OhJustSomeRandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
Indeed but those characters get a a bit out of hand in terms of what they can do lol =)

By the way, your avatar cracks me up lol

I laughed so hard when i saw that guy in the Chuinin exam. Naruto developers have a wierd sense of humor.
He needs a special book or something. Or like next Naruto special episode he needs to be the narrator. When he's like, "I'm this guy." he'll get all pissed off that people don't remember who he is...

Wolf: I'm not even referring to the "extreme" characters, people that aren't at the top of the list. Just some of the guys who have abilities that make it really hard for close combat fighters to get in hits.
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Old 2004-04-28, 17:16   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
Indeed but those characters get a a bit out of hand in terms of what they can do lol =)

By the way, your avatar cracks me up lol

I laughed so hard when i saw that guy in the Chuinin exam. Naruto developers have a wierd sense of humor.

u cant compre the speeds.
why well cause most people in kenshins world arent as fast as him right?
well in narutos world the gap isnt that big through most chars.

itachi ownage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sharigan can copy it can copy taijtsu duh. wich is using the body as a weapon or wutever.

the big B (cant spell) has a 360 degree angle so he could see him no matter wut.

kenshin doesnt have a demon in him like lets say naruto. gaara transform wiht preist thing
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Old 2004-04-28, 17:16   Link #18
Rhythmic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
I see what you mean. But i dont think you can compare rock lee's speed to soujiro's. Rock Lee could be seen when he moved. (Only Chouji's fat eyes could keep up )

When soujiro attacked on the other hand, he completely dissapeared, and not even Kenshin could follow his movements. Rocklee could still be seen, its just that the sand couldnt keep up.

Remember that these elite swords man, dont just swing swords. They are the best when it comes to killing you with that sword. So if Battousai attacks at god like speed and nearly vanishes, only the best ninjas would be able to survive.

Yea thats what I was about to say, They could still see rock lee run around and only his actaully attacks(punches kicks ect) were invisible,


I think the RK guys could take them out as long as they got that first hit/kill in,

for some reason I doubt any of the ninjas would be aware of such techniques like as shakuchi(sp?) or ryo no hiramekkie.
Perfect example of this was the sound nin who used sound waves. They never saw it before and didn't know what it was/how to defend against it.

They would be caught completly unaware since it would be a complete new style of attacking that they probly don't expect.

THink about it, you take sanos zanbatou and to them it might look like a regular punch. what if they decide to just block it?

what effect could the zanbatou have on gaaras sand shield? would it just blast it away completly? could it go though the shield and impact gaara who would be thinking "oh its just a punch, nothing to worry about"
bam shield blow apart and punched stright to armor of sand(which was weaker anyway) killing gaara or injury.
of course depending on if sano can do it multiple times over like that (one to break though shield and immideitly doing a second one directly to gaara since hes past the shield),
Sano might not but I am positive the monk could.


of course this is against the genin/ chunin of naruto universe


the only problem would be the upper jounin level ninjas without any egos who wouldn't take any of it for granted. Who might have the eyes to somewhat follow thier movments. (if they think rock is really fast then kenshins godlike speed would be a killer) Especially Kakashi with the Sharnigan.
they might be able to dodge/survive that first strike and relize just what kind of techniques they are up against.

against genins and chunins yes, I think they could hold thier own easly, but against the Jounins..... I dunno, impossible to tell.
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Old 2004-04-28, 17:18   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
By the way, your avatar cracks me up lol


I laughed so hard when i saw that guy in the Chuinin exam. Naruto developers have a wierd sense of humor.
I couldn't stop laughing when I went back and rewatched ...


On topic ... it's hard to say ... The people in Kenshin are fast + have sorta supernatural techniques, just like the ninjas. But I don't agree with you saying that Kakashi would just get owned like that ... too slow to make hand seals? guess again. Zabuza, an expert in quick silent killing, snuck up on him to find a water clone of kakashi. Quick enough for you? Oro does Kawarimi almost instantly.

The upcoming few eipisodes with Itachi will also show you some quick jutsu making.
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Old 2004-04-28, 17:24   Link #20
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I couldn't stop laughing when I went back and rewatched ...
The best part is, one of the subbing groups has a scene where he's like right up front, and the subtitle says, "Teammates failing is BULLSHIT!"

So if you take a screencap, it looks like he's saying it. But, you know why he hasn't graduated yet...his teammates are always letting him down.
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