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Old 2014-06-04, 00:22   Link #41
psycho bolt
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Considering how many different genres of anime in Japan has produced and compare that to in the US. If there could be more shows being made, but I doubt that. And I wished people saw anime as a form a medium like movies and not just pure entertainment like how the game industry is like. Of course, the indie scene is changing the game industry. Maybe the American industry just need more anime creators.

Last edited by psycho bolt; 2014-06-04 at 00:37.
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Old 2014-06-04, 12:13   Link #42
bhl88
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No not really. I'd put less restrictions.
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Old 2014-06-04, 20:30   Link #43
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No, the culture is just way too different than Japan. Most people prefer shows or movies with real people on the screen. Animation is more oriented towards kids. Even with shows like the Simpsons, Family Guy, or South Park, they're essentially for the same audience so there's not much variety like there is in Japan. Someone mentioned manga and LN series being an incentive for creating anime so that's a major difference as well.
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Old 2014-06-04, 20:54   Link #44
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Originally Posted by Preciize View Post
No, the culture is just way too different than Japan. Most people prefer shows or movies with real people on the screen. Animation is more oriented towards kids. Even with shows like the Simpsons, Family Guy, or South Park, they're essentially for the same audience so there's not much variety like there is in Japan. Someone mentioned manga and LN series being an incentive for creating anime so that's a major difference as well.
That's because they don't actually make serious plotlines, it all just bullshiting comedy. No drama, no real action no story etc. It's hard to take things serious when nearly 95% of it is just comedy that it just gets old. My opinion of course.
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Old 2014-06-04, 20:59   Link #45
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That's because they don't actually make serious plotlines, it all just bullshiting comedy. No drama, no real action no story etc. It's hard to take things serious when nearly 95% of it is just comedy that it just gets old. My opinion of course.
No no, I completely agree. Unfortunately, I think that's what the audience prefers, thus the reason they do it that way. If people wanted something serious, they'd probably go watch a TV drama or something. Animations are just viewed a lot differently in the US.
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Old 2014-06-04, 21:20   Link #46
Ravagerblade
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No no, I completely agree. Unfortunately, I think that's what the audience prefers, thus the reason they do it that way. If people wanted something serious, they'd probably go watch a TV drama or something. Animations are just viewed a lot differently in the US.
I must be in the minority within the US then. lol
Apparently people don't want to actually think when their watching something. They're probably just being mindless drones and laughing when it seems funny.
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Old 2014-06-04, 21:27   Link #47
Ithekro
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Animation is still generally aimed at children and teenagers in the United States. It is slowly changing, but in the South Park and the like Direction.
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Old 2014-06-04, 21:32   Link #48
Ravagerblade
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Animation is still generally aimed at children and teenagers in the United States. It is slowly changing, but in the South Park and the like Direction.
Which makes it worse. While it may be funny sometimes it's also completely garbage, imo... I prefer Japan anime for now lol.
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Old 2014-06-04, 23:41   Link #49
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I must be in the minority within the US then. lol
Apparently people don't want to actually think when their watching something. They're probably just being mindless drones and laughing when it seems funny.
I think most of us are I hop on social media or listen to conversations at school and all I hear are shows like Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc.

It's much easier to watch a show without having to go deep into what you're watching. Most people would rather not get caught up in the feels.
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Old 2014-06-05, 01:30   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Ravagerblade View Post
Which makes it worse. While it may be funny sometimes it's also completely garbage, imo... I prefer Japan anime for now lol.
Fortunately it still remains that way.
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Old 2014-06-05, 01:39   Link #51
Esclair
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I think we might see more Western made anime if they ever make whatever software they're using to animate 3D Cell Shading the new Guilty Gear widely available. The costs are just too high for any kind of hand animation to be used in the west for anything liker than a short.
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Old 2014-06-05, 03:26   Link #52
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Originally Posted by Preciize View Post
I think most of us are I hop on social media or listen to conversations at school and all I hear are shows like Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc.

It's much easier to watch a show without having to go deep into what you're watching. Most people would rather not get caught up in the feels.
I don't think GoT can count as mindless entertaining. It's mostly faithfull adaptation of books from G.R.R. Martin, classic of modern sci-fi and fantasy and guy who realy can write (I would recommend you read Tuf Voyaging from him, it's great book where you can either think or just enjoy whether you feel like) While I am not fan of either these books nor tv show, I can see it's more than that.

As for Breaking bad, I didn't see single episode, but drug theme is far from generic (though 90 percent of people who watch it are damn posers).
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Old 2014-06-05, 04:24   Link #53
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Originally Posted by Esclair View Post
I think we might see more Western made anime if they ever make whatever software they're using to animate 3D Cell Shading the new Guilty Gear widely available. The costs are just too high for any kind of hand animation to be used in the west for anything liker than a short.
The bulk of the $$ probably comes from the usage of equipment (and voice actors) and advertising.
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Old 2014-06-05, 15:29   Link #54
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I don't think GoT can count as mindless entertaining. It's mostly faithfull adaptation of books from G.R.R. Martin, classic of modern sci-fi and fantasy and guy who realy can write (I would recommend you read Tuf Voyaging from him, it's great book where you can either think or just enjoy whether you feel like) While I am not fan of either these books nor tv show, I can see it's more than that.

As for Breaking bad, I didn't see single episode, but drug theme is far from generic (though 90 percent of people who watch it are damn posers).
Fair enough, I'll admit I don't know too much about either show.

Going back to anime/animation, I do think that a majority of adults do not take it seriously. Maybe because having a serious and dark elements in an animation seems foreign or maybe because of the mere fact that it's a cartoon. As a result, producers can only stay with the comedy genre and it'll get old with the number of shows like South Park, Family Guy, etc. being similar.
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Old 2014-06-05, 15:32   Link #55
Ravagerblade
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Originally Posted by Preciize View Post
Fair enough, I'll admit I don't know too much about either show.

Going back to anime/animation, I do think that a majority of adults do not take it seriously. Maybe because having a serious and dark elements in an animation seems foreign or maybe because of the mere fact that it's a cartoon. As a result, producers can only stay with the comedy genre and it'll get old with the number of shows like South Park, Family Guy, etc. being similar.
It's all going down the toilet, they can't come up with new things to come up with it all seems rehashed content just with a different picture on it. They just don't realize it apparently.

Maybe just maybe they'll realize it and make something worthwhile but a limited viewing because of cost possibly.
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Old 2014-06-05, 22:18   Link #56
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I think we might see more Western made anime if they ever make whatever software they're using to animate 3D Cell Shading the new Guilty Gear widely available. The costs are just too high for any kind of hand animation to be used in the west for anything liker than a short.
From the discussion, I got the opposite impression. The economy of supply and demand is at work.
Becasue the market supply of hand made animation is excessive, American animation industry went for 3D animation.

Japanese audience got too used to the old animation style. Any attempt of change in anime industry has greater risk of box office failure. The reason why 3D animation Frozen is the huge success in Japan...is because the movie is famous. Since it is famous, individuals don't want to feel left out. It also has a quality guarantee. The market is beyond the typical anime otaku. Even non-anime watching people go to the movie theater. Sometimes, certain experience cannot be copied. Also, the experience cannot be the best selling formula forever.

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Originally Posted by Ravagerblade View Post
Which makes it worse. While it may be funny sometimes it's also completely garbage, imo... I prefer Japan anime for now lol.
Even the idea may sound garbage, the way of deliverying idea may turn garbage to gold. For example, several people noticed secret implication of Ken Colle's Deep Sea Princess(USS Washington) and Airport Princess(Midway airfield).




The bizarre setting and cute drawing is making the memorable story. If the storytelling is not good enough, it is still trash.

Last edited by scififan; 2014-06-05 at 22:28.
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Old 2014-06-06, 00:06   Link #57
sunchips18
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I think we might see more Western made anime if they ever make whatever software they're using to animate 3D Cell Shading the new Guilty Gear widely available. The costs are just too high for any kind of hand animation to be used in the west for anything liker than a short.
I find that kind of sad. I don't mind 3D animation, but I really do enjoy western style hand drawn animation..
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Old 2014-06-06, 00:39   Link #58
Esclair
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Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
The bulk of the $$ probably comes from the usage of equipment (and voice actors) and advertising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scififan View Post
From the discussion, I got the opposite impression. The economy of supply and demand is at work.
Becasue the market supply of hand made animation is excessive, American animation industry went for 3D animation.
Budget is the primary issue. Japanese animators are basically paid minimum wage and are heavily overworked, YET they're still outsourcing their animation to Korea to reduce costs. Hand drawn animation is EXPENSIVE and time consuming.

Even Legend of Korra was completely outsourced to Japan and Korea. Meanwhile 2D cartoons made with Flash still remain highly popular in the west. Why do you think there's so much CG in anime today? The lower the budget the more CG there is, especially for action scenes. It's just way cheaper to do it with CG than it is to hand animate it. However, most CG just doesn't look very good so they try to hide it as much as possible.

Quote:
Japanese audience got too used to the old animation style. Any attempt of change in anime industry has greater risk of box office failure. The reason why 3D animation Frozen is the huge success in Japan...is because the movie is famous. Since it is famous, individuals don't want to feel left out. It also has a quality guarantee. The market is beyond the typical anime otaku. Even non-anime watching people go to the movie theater. Sometimes, certain experience cannot be copied. Also, the experience cannot be the best selling formula forever.
Arpeggio pretty much outsold most of the series that aired that season and it looks like Sidonia will be doing so too for this season. Japanese fans are far more accepting of 3D animation than western fans. Just compare the response to Sidonia from 2chan to MAL or even here.
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Old 2014-06-06, 03:19   Link #59
demino_hellsin
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so budget is the reason YJ got cancelled? Well it was obvious but due to lack of toy sales? Don't anime normally run more with merchandise than toys anyway? so is it mistaken marketing or just pure budget problems?
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Old 2014-06-06, 03:37   Link #60
Esclair
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so budget is the reason YJ got cancelled? Well it was obvious but due to lack of toy sales? Don't anime normally run more with merchandise than toys anyway? so is it mistaken marketing or just pure budget problems?
Budget is part of it. Superhero cartoons are expected to push a certain amount of toys. Specific time slots have viewer ship numbers that the networks would prefer to hit in order to maximize their ad revenue. Young Justice costs way more to produce than a flash based show like Almost Naked Animals that also airs on Cartoon Network. It was also badly managed and marketed. The show had erratic airing schedules and due to how serialized the story was the interrupted scheduling pretty much killed off a lot of the more casual interest in the show.

It's the same with anime. It's actually a bit worse because while western cartoons are often sponsored by a big company or the tv network itself, anime studios have to pay for specific time slots out of pocket. This is a huge additional cost on top of the amount of resources they need to make and market it, as well as pay for licensing costs.

The exception being NHK anime like Log Horizon and maybe noitaminA where the TV station will pay a studio to create a certain anime with a specific criteria. These shows are generally funded by the network so that's why even though Log Horizon didn't sell that well it's still getting a second season. I think Sasami-san@gabaranai was also a slot filler. Another exception is where a license holder will find a studio to create an advertisement for their property. This is the case with a lot of LN and Manga adaptations, where the studio is paid a chunk of money to animate a series to drum up interest to boost LN sales. This is different from where a studio seeks out a license themselves in hopes of creating a popular anime based off of a popular license.

Outside of those cases though, studios pretty much have to bank on the fact that they'll make a profit from BD/DVD sales and merchandising if they're lucky. That's where the whole Manabi line thing came about. Apparently Manabi Straight just sold enough to break even. However that number will be different depending on the show, since they all have different costs. Kyoto Animation in general seems to spend a lot more on their shows but the way they're set up they actually get a far larger cut of the profit than most studios, so they don't actually need to sell as much in comparison.

Last edited by Esclair; 2014-06-06 at 03:50.
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