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Old 2014-05-17, 13:46   Link #41
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Doflamingo getting rid of Fujitora........that's a good one. And as I anticipated, it looks like the birdman is going to turn out to be somewhat of a sympathetic villain. He lost his mother at the age of 8 and clearly values real "family". Should be interesting to learn about his past.
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Old 2014-05-17, 17:04   Link #42
ZGoten
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I'm not sure if I'm buying Doflamingo's supposed love for his familiy. He's shown to be too much of an a** in the past for me to suddenly think there are people he cares about. I don't think he even knows what love means. He's the guy who asked Vergo and Monet to die for him on Punk Hazard. Sure, he snuck in the word "please" in his request, but dying is not something you request of somebody you care about a lot. Maybe he's playing all his excutives for fools, or maybe he truly believes that he cares about them, but either way, I don't think he does. I think he's just playing nice because he needs them.
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Old 2014-05-17, 19:16   Link #43
marvelB
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I'm not sure if I'm buying Doflamingo's supposed love for his familiy. He's shown to be too much of an a** in the past for me to suddenly think there are people he cares about. I don't think he even knows what love means. He's the guy who asked Vergo and Monet to die for him on Punk Hazard. Sure, he snuck in the word "please" in his request, but dying is not something you request of somebody you care about a lot. Maybe he's playing all his excutives for fools, or maybe he truly believes that he cares about them, but either way, I don't think he does. I think he's just playing nice because he needs them.



I think it's pretty clear that he DOES care for the officers in his inner circle. True, he asked Monet and Vergo to die for him at PH, but also recall that he went out of his way to personally save Baby-5 and Buffalo after THEY were defeated. Heck, let's also not forget how he clearly hesitated when Law used Jora as a hostage against him at Green Bit. And of course, we now have his little speech from this chapter to add, as well. He may treat anyone else from outside his "family" like garbage, but Oda's definitely shown a sense of camaraderie between Dofla and his officers, otherwise. I really don't think he sees them as mere tools.
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Old 2014-05-17, 21:37   Link #44
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I think it's pretty clear that he DOES care for the officers in his inner circle. True, he asked Monet and Vergo to die for him at PH, but also recall that he went out of his way to personally save Baby-5 and Buffalo after THEY were defeated. Heck, let's also not forget how he clearly hesitated when Law used Jora as a hostage against him at Green Bit. And of course, we now have his little speech from this chapter to add, as well. He may treat anyone else from outside his "family" like garbage, but Oda's definitely shown a sense of camaraderie between Dofla and his officers, otherwise. I really don't think he sees them as mere tools.
Indeed; this is nothing sudden, Doflamingo has shown a track record since Punk Hazard that he has care for his subordinates. Heck he even apologized to Vergo and monet before they met their ends for what he felt had to be done. He's apparently willing to sacrifice them if he must, but he actually considers it a BIG sacrifice and not one he will be quick to make. There are even minor details... Like when Doflamingo finds Buffalo's and Baby-5's heads, his first question to law is "where are their bodies", as opposed to "where is ceasar" or "where are you". It kinda shows that the first thought on his mind was getting those two back together
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Old 2014-05-17, 23:28   Link #45
articuzwolf
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Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
You are correct about the citizens. I'm talking about haki.

Check chapter 108 pg 18. Where Zoro holds Miss Monday by the head and she falls unconscious foaming at the mouth, the closest glimmer that Zoro may possess CoC.
ah I thought you're refering to his hesitance to cut down the civilians
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Old 2014-05-17, 23:48   Link #46
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Meh, I always thought his fear inducing powers (his fight vs Kaku (Ashura), at Sabaody those bounty/slave hunters (could be anime only can't remember) and of course his fight vs Monet) was him using a different version of CoC...

Miss monday foaming seemed to be out of sheer pain.
Ya agreed he does have a unique take inspire fear to the point opponents are paralyzed and pass out like CoC.

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Oda confirmed in one of the more recent volume's SBS columns that Zoro's forte lies in armament haki. Luffy is the only one who specializes in conqueror's haki (Sanji, BTW, is more skilled with observation haki). Whether or not Zoro is capable of using CoC is still up in the air...... personally, I doubt it, though.

Thats interesting. Can't wait to see Zoro and his armament haki.

I think he will have it, much like Raleigh. However this chapter has significantly reduced the chance in my eyes.


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ah I thought you're refering to his hesitance to cut down the civilians

Ya thought so
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Old 2014-05-18, 00:07   Link #47
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Is Zoro capable of cutting seastone cuffs? The trio really needs to get those cuffs off Law.
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Old 2014-05-18, 15:39   Link #48
grey_1960
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Chapter 747
That was good chapter. Zoro is proving more and more that he can hold his own against the top and majority of the players in this arch cant even touch him. Has for Admiral Fujitori I am curios to see how he would takecare of Daflamingo and his crew If it were just him and vice admiral Bastille. Has for pica his size does not impress me. After seeing marineford war size is not everything. But the way he has used his power for statigic purpose is impessive. Protecting the factory, puting the palace on the high ground, and keeps moving the factory. His manipulation of the battle field is impressive.

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I think it's pretty clear that he DOES care for the officers in his inner circle. True, he asked Monet and Vergo to die for him at PH, but also recall that he went out of his way to personally save Baby-5 and Buffalo after THEY were defeated. Heck, let's also not forget how he clearly hesitated when Law used Jora as a hostage against him at Green Bit. And of course, we now have his little speech from this chapter to add, as well. He may treat anyone else from outside his "family" like garbage, but Oda's definitely shown a sense of camaraderie between Dofla and his officers, otherwise. I really don't think he sees them as mere tools.
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Indeed; this is nothing sudden, Doflamingo has shown a track record since Punk Hazard that he has care for his subordinates. Heck he even apologized to Vergo and monet before they met their ends for what he felt had to be done. He's apparently willing to sacrifice them if he must, but he actually considers it a BIG sacrifice and not one he will be quick to make. There are even minor details... Like when Doflamingo finds Buffalo's and Baby-5's heads, his first question to law is "where are their bodies", as opposed to "where is ceasar" or "where are you". It kinda shows that the first thought on his mind was getting those two back together
Is it owners care or family's care?
I dont feel its the love or care people think it is. It feels like he has care has if monet, vergos, and everyone else in his crew are just object. You can have feelings for object and takecare of them just like people. Owners and their cars, pets, and anything else. If that object has served you well you will remember it with fond memoris and you will grow attched to it. But the question is how far will daflamingo go for them? White beard and the crew gave up everything for Ace. The crew call daflamingo young master. Daflamingo and the crew have a master servent relationship. If you really want to see if he cares for them. Then wait till he is cornerd and vunrable. Wait till an admiral, luffy, zoro, or sabo have them at their mercy. Will he escape, sacrfice, or fight for them? He could do nothing for vergo or monet. He was also telling monet to destroy the factory even if it costed her and vergos life. For buffalo and baby 5 what would the marines do to him and his crew at punk hazard? Daflamingo is a shibukai and only an admiral or higher can cast judgemet. Akoiji is a former admiral and he still respect Akainu and the marines despite their difference. He would not go after the shibukai unless he had no option. Thats why daflamingo left smoker alone and was able to walk. Daflamingo knew that.
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Old 2014-05-18, 23:09   Link #49
marvelB
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Zoro is proving more and more that he can hold his own against the top and majority of the players in this arch cant even touch him.
While it pains me to resurrect this particular debate..... just having a couple short scuffles with an admiral doesn't mean that Zoro is at their level yet. It's not like Fujitora went all out yet, anyway. It's also WAY too soon to call him "untouchable" when he hasn't even had a proper fight yet this arc (the aforementioned scuffles with an admiral NOT being proper battles)......


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Has for Admiral Fujitori I am curios to see how he would takecare of Daflamingo and his crew If it were just him and vice admiral Bastille.

I doubt Fujitora would even need Bastille's help to take down Dofla and his crew. Not if he just spams meteors against them, anyway. I'm sure there's only so much that even a net of strings like the Birdcage can defend against when a freaking meteor shower is raining down upon them, lol.


Not that it matters much in the end, anyway. I'm pretty sure that Luffy and co. will deal with Dofla and his family long before Fujitora even gets a chance to touch them. And let's also not forget that Kaidou will probably clean things up once everything is said and done, as well......




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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Is it owners care or family's care?
I dont feel its the love or care people think it is. It feels like he has care has if monet, vergos, and everyone else in his crew are just object. You can have feelings for object and takecare of them just like people. Owners and their cars, pets, and anything else. If that object has served you well you will remember it with fond memoris and you will grow attched to it. But the question is how far will daflamingo go for them? White beard and the crew gave up everything for Ace. The crew call daflamingo young master. Daflamingo and the crew have a master servent relationship. If you really want to see if he cares for them. Then wait till he is cornerd and vunrable. Wait till an admiral, luffy, zoro, or sabo have them at their mercy. Will he escape, sacrfice, or fight for them? He could do nothing for vergo or monet. He was also telling monet to destroy the factory even if it costed her and vergos life. For buffalo and baby 5 what would the marines do to him and his crew at punk hazard? Daflamingo is a shibukai and only an admiral or higher can cast judgemet. Akoiji is a former admiral and he still respect Akainu and the marines despite their difference. He would not go after the shibukai unless he had no option. Thats why daflamingo left smoker alone and was able to walk. Daflamingo knew that.


I think the mere fact that Dofla got pissed at some random grunt who giggled at Pica's voice is more than enough evidence that he sees his "family" as more than mere tools or objects. If he didn't he wouldn't have given the slightest crap about what those goons thought of Pica otherwise. Like I said before, Dofla's showing a sense of camaraderie here that's pretty rare among the villains of this series.....
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Old 2014-05-19, 01:08   Link #50
grey_1960
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I think it's pretty clear that he DOES care for the officers in his inner circle. True, he asked Monet and Vergo to die for him at PH, but also recall that he went out of his way to personally save Baby-5 and Buffalo after THEY were defeated. Heck, let's also not forget how he clearly hesitated when Law used Jora as a hostage against him at Green Bit. And of course, we now have his little speech from this chapter to add, as well. He may treat anyone else from outside his "family" like garbage, but Oda's definitely shown a sense of camaraderie between Dofla and his officers, otherwise. I really don't think he sees them as mere tools.
"true character of an individual is not when he is winning but when he is losing"
Will see how he acts at the end of the arch. But for right now i wont be surprised if he sacrifices the rest like vergo and monet. Second he killed his father, to me if admiral fujitori held one of his top exes has hostage he would considerder it expendable.
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While it pains me to resurrect this particular debate..... just having a couple short scuffles with an admiral doesn't mean that Zoro is at their level yet. It's not like Fujitora went all out yet, anyway. It's also WAY too soon to call him "untouchable" when he hasn't even ad a proper fight yet this arc (the aforementioned scuffles with an admiral NOT being proper battles)......


I doubt Fujitora would even need Bastille's help to take down Dofla and his crew. Not if he just spams meteors against them, anyway. I'm sure there's only so much that even a net of strings like the Birdcage can defend against when a freaking meteor shower is raining down upon them, lol.


Not that it matters much in the end, anyway. I'm pretty sure that Luffy and co. will deal with Dofla and his family long before Fujitora even gets a chance to touch them. And let's also not forget that Kaidou will probably clean things up once everything is said and done, as well......

I think the mere fact that Dofla got pissed at some random grunt who giggled at Pica's voice is more than enough evidence that he sees his "family" as more than mere tools or objects. If he didn't he wouldn't have given the slightest crap about what those goons thought of Pica otherwise. Like I said before, Dofla's showing a sense of camaraderie here that's pretty rare among the villains of this series.....
The ending
Zoro has not gone all out either. Has for Bastilla helping admiral fujitori, we should not underestimate Daflamingo. Admirals are not invicible, Admiral Z is proof of that. I personally think Admiral Fugitori can take them on by himself, but help never hurts.
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Old 2014-05-19, 10:35   Link #51
Slayerx
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"true character of an individual is not when he is winning but when he is losing"
Will see how he acts at the end of the arch. But for right now i wont be surprised if he sacrifices the rest like vergo and monet. Second he killed his father, to me if admiral fujitori held one of his top exes has hostage he would considerder it expendable.
We already saw what happened when one of his "family" was held hostage when Law took Jora Hostage. Not so easily expendable. Also while his father might be blood related, that doesn't mean he was "family" to Doflamingo... unlike the "family" that shared good times and bad times with him, his father was most likely just another celestiral dragon
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Old 2014-05-19, 12:53   Link #52
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I'm not buying it guys! That old flamingo hipster may have deceived you lot, but not me!
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Old 2014-05-20, 00:21   Link #53
grey_1960
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
We already saw what happened when one of his "family" was held hostage when Law took Jora Hostage. Not so easily expendable. Also while his father might be blood related, that doesn't mean he was "family" to Doflamingo... unlike the "family" that shared good times and bad times with him, his father was most likely just another celestiral dragon
Real Threat
Daflamingo trashed law without trying. What will he do if an Admiral takes a hostage? He wont beable to slap around someone of that calibur. Sorry but law and admrial fujitori are totally different. Former admiral Akoiji was strong enough to make daflamingo think twice about killing smoker. I am sure admiral fugitori will have the same affect.
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Old 2014-05-20, 17:35   Link #54
marvelB
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
"true character of an individual is not when he is winning but when he is losing"
Will see how he acts at the end of the arch. But for right now i wont be surprised if he sacrifices the rest like vergo and monet. Second he killed his father, to me if admiral fujitori held one of his top exes has hostage he would considerder it expendable.

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I'm not buying it guys! That old flamingo hipster may have deceived you lot, but not me!


Just to clarify here, do you guys believe that Dofla truly doesn't care for his officers as if they were people, but as tools? That he's basically another Crocodile? Or are you saying that he thinks he cares about them, but in some sort of warped, twisted way? Because if it's the latter, then I guess I can see that being possible. Otherwise, I'm not convinced that he sees his crew as mere objects. Not after seeing all the interaction he's had with them......



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Real Threat
Daflamingo trashed law without trying. What will he do if an Admiral takes a hostage? He wont beable to slap around someone of that calibur. Sorry but law and admrial fujitori are totally different. Former admiral Akoiji was strong enough to make daflamingo think twice about killing smoker. I am sure admiral fugitori will have the same affect.


I doubt it really matters whether it's Law or Fujitora when the BOTH of them are quite capable of killing Jora with little trouble. Dofla obviously knew that, otherwise he wouldn't have hesitated as he did at that moment.
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Old 2014-05-21, 00:13   Link #55
grey_1960
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Just to clarify here, do you guys believe that Dofla truly doesn't care for his officers as if they were people, but as tools? That he's basically another Crocodile? Or are you saying that he thinks he cares about them, but in some sort of warped, twisted way? Because if it's the latter, then I guess I can see that being possible. Otherwise, I'm not convinced that he sees his crew as mere objects. Not after seeing all the interaction he's had with them......

I doubt it really matters whether it's Law or Fujitora when the BOTH of them are quite capable of killing Jora with little trouble. Dofla obviously knew that, otherwise he wouldn't have hesitated as he did at that moment.
Young Master
I believe the relationship is servant and master. Everyone to him is a stepping stone to his greatness. Will he have some emotional ties to some of those stepping stones. Of course but in the end the crew is there for him. That is why he is the young master.

It would matter because with law he wasnt threatened. Daflamingo has no respect for law, he considers him an below him and a brat. If it were admiral fujitori he would leave jora to her fate. Same with punk hazared when daflaimgo let smoker live because of akoiji. Respect goes along way and the admiral command it.
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