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Old 2014-05-17, 14:55   Link #21
Darthtabby
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It's not unusual for real life teenage boys to have these sorts of reactions to real life teenage girls in bathing suits, swim-wear, and what not. Some are smoother and more discreet about it than others (excited whispering amongst your male buddies rather than being so loud that you make the girls think you're a perv ), but it's pretty universal. Anime may exaggerate it a bit for added comedic effect some times, but comedy in general is often like that.
I often find the behaviour of teenage boys in anime rather over the top, but then judging by the comments I've heard some other people say online I may not have been a very representative teenage male. Personally, I tend to like the types of characters who are interested but don't make a huge fuss.

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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
What I wonder is, why do these shows recycle the same jokes over and over? I mean, I've seen guys fall down and "accidentally" grope some girl's boobs like five thousand times now -- there are multiple shows that use that gag every single season. It was barely funny the first time. Are there actually guys who sit there and laugh every time it happens? Can't ecchi writers think up a new joke?
I've got rather mixed feelings about perverted humor in anime. A lot of it is really lame to the point of being eye rolling. On the other hand, there's some that is absolutely hilarious. I wish there was more anime that didn't have perverted humor that I could show to people who aren't familiar with anime, but I also wouldn't necessarily mind if there were more of the kind of stuff I genuinely found really funny either.

If you want a perverted show that is actually really funny, I recommend giving 2010's B Gata H Kei a shot. Its absolutely hilarious and actually seems rather true to life at times (which is probably why it's so hilarious). For some reason people got really up in arms about it though despite it actually being pretty tame.
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Old 2014-05-18, 16:21   Link #22
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I don't have to read the first page but I do know it was filled with anti-ecchi sentiments. Ecchi isn't the only type of fanservice. There are moe, bishounen, shouta and yaoi ones as well.

Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2014-05-18 at 20:24. Reason: Use examples that are NOT attacks on a segment of a population...
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Old 2014-05-18, 20:38   Link #23
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I don't see what is particularly wrong with fan service. People love good physical appearances, that is fact. The problem with anime is that some anime are just completely filled with it. Its all about balance so you better match your fan service with plot or characterization or other important things.
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Old 2014-05-18, 20:52   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Lyocol View Post
I don't have to read the first page but I do know it was filled with anti-ecchi sentiments. Ecchi isn't the only type of fanservice. There are moe, bishounen, shouta and yaoi ones as well.
Unfortunately, the term ecchi, like kawaii, never really took off, at least in the western fandom. It's a shame, because both words are more precise in meaning than "fanservice" and "moe" are, respectively.
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Old 2014-05-18, 21:31   Link #25
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I hate the how the meaning of fanservice is used in anime fandom. It's so misleading. It should be called what it is (e.g. "tit and ass shots") because in other mediums, I always associated the term "fanservice" in the way the author, director, company etc. provides service to its fans by crossreferencing, making cameos, hat tipping of previous works that they did.

For example, the way PA Works often make True Tears references in their anime originals such as the Hiromi poster and TT school uniforms episode 20? of Hanasaku Iroha, or the Reflectia song sung by the choir in Tari Tari. That's fanservice, and I see no harm done for such scenes.

Tit and ass shots though depends on context as there are times where it can be done tastefully, though I do agree with the majority in this thread that certain tropes are overdone and what was slightly amusing at best becomes intolerably annoying when beaten to death.
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Old 2014-05-18, 22:16   Link #26
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Whenever someone mentions fanservice, I just go 'meh' and mention an 18+ manga I'd rather read instead.

It's possible to have something sexual be taken relatively seriously or be in the right context, but it's as unlikely as flock. Easier to digest feelings and reactions are the way of the anime medium for the greater part. And as previously mentioned, they're pitched at a high school to young adult demographic, usually.

What irks me more is generally the male character involved is usually a loser. You'd occassionally get someone like Ryo Saeba from City Hunter or Onizuka from GTO who were definitely pervs in some way but they were still awesome characters.

And for the record - service is usually done rather sub-standard in anime, anyway. Could list off a long line of manga/game artists I'd rather see do that kind of material instead and in a better context.
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Old 2014-05-19, 17:50   Link #27
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What about works such as Kill la Kill or Panty & Stocking? They use fanservice to the point of absurdity and yet they both have deep themes.
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Old 2014-05-19, 20:19   Link #28
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absurdity
That's the core of both of those works. Kill la Kill also relies a lot on nekketsu.
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Old 2014-05-19, 20:27   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
What about works such as Kill la Kill or Panty & Stocking? They use fanservice to the point of absurdity and yet they both have deep themes.
None of those things are exclusive to each other to anyone with an even somewhat limited imagination.
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Old 2014-05-19, 21:03   Link #30
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Imaishi is exactly the kind of person that makes the kind of fanservice that makes me walk away within 2 seconds.
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Old 2014-05-19, 23:05   Link #31
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Originally Posted by Newprimus View Post
I was looking at GIFs from the recent beach episode of Nisekoi posted on another site and I wonder if japanese otaku actually go "Ooooohhh!!!~" and go into a frenzy in real life like boys do in anime when they see these kinds of gratuitous fanservice scenes. It's just that it suddenly hit me just how laypeople must feel when they see this kind of fanservice for service's sake, and made me wonder if there are viewers out there, probably in Japan, who actually have that sort of schoolboy-like response to these scenes.
If the people I watch anime with are any indication, a fanservice scene might get some cheering but nothing as over the top as what you see in anime. That's dramatization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
What I wonder is, why do these shows recycle the same jokes over and over? I mean, I've seen guys fall down and "accidentally" grope some girl's boobs like five thousand times now -- there are multiple shows that use that gag every single season. It was barely funny the first time. Are there actually guys who sit there and laugh every time it happens? Can't ecchi writers think up a new joke?
IMO, it gets reused more because it's a stock gag for the genre than because people find it particularly funny. From what I've observed, fans find it funny but not particularly so - about as funny as ten thousand other genre gags that crop up in anime, both ecchi and non-ecchi.

In the case of light novel adaptations, I also sometimes wonder if such scenes lose a bit in translation - ie. the description is funnier than what is actually being described. But I don't read enough source material to really comment on that.
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Old 2014-05-19, 23:21   Link #32
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I think a lousy adaptation can definitely ruin the flavor and even original intention of what is meant.

Then again, I only call stuff out for what appears on screen. Just because it was funny in written form doesn't mean it's going to do well in another format. Of course, I can't think of anything being a bigger waste of time then to get acquainted with every third-rate (Wait, is that redundant already?) LN and manga source that gets tossed into the grinder so that will be that.
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Old 2014-05-19, 23:41   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Then again, I only call stuff out for what appears on screen. Just because it was funny in written form doesn't mean it's going to do well in another format. Of course, I can't think of anything being a bigger waste of time then to get acquainted with every third-rate (Wait, is that redundant already?) LN and manga source that gets tossed into the grinder so that will be that.
What's really disturbing is how quickly they gain fanbases to go with the risk of an adaptation in the first place. At least, I hope the source was actually enough of a success and they're not prematurely adapting stories. Nvm actual writing.
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Old 2014-05-20, 20:35   Link #34
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Imaishi is exactly the kind of person that makes the kind of fanservice that makes me walk away within 2 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
None of those things are exclusive to each other to anyone with an even somewhat limited imagination.
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
That's the core of both of those works. Kill la Kill also relies a lot on nekketsu.
Quote:
That's the core of both of those works. Kill la Kill also relies a lot on nekketsu.
I know that this Imaishi guy creates works that are borderline absurd and wacky but his works tend to contain a ton of unashamed fanservice. Look at how the haters were up in arms about Satsuki's and Ryuuko's transformations in episode three.
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Old 2014-05-20, 20:47   Link #35
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Which completely misses the point. The point of that part was to show that the heroes were able to tolerate the ridiculous situation and perform regardless, largely by Ryouko overcoming shame and that's why Satsuki was so effective early on. Despite the ridiculous amount of skin showing, Kill La Kill is actually much less sexist and insulting than many other anime that venture that path.

It's fine if one thinks it goes too far or if it doesn't make the point meaningful, but deliberately ignoring the narrative is just poor form.

I am no fan of Imashi's work. I thought KLK episode 1 had a pretty tasteless scene, and overall I lost interest in Kill la Kill and wasn't very into TTGL either (though they were interesting spectacles), nor was I into Geass either (that's not him but that's enough a counterpart) to just show I'm not very hot on this kind of style of show.
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Old 2014-05-21, 07:10   Link #36
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Which completely misses the point. The point of that part was to show that the heroes were able to tolerate the ridiculous situation and perform regardless, largely by Ryouko overcoming shame and that's why Satsuki was so effective early on. Despite the ridiculous amount of skin showing, Kill La Kill is actually much less sexist and insulting than many other anime that venture that path.
I saw little of KLK but I agree with this.

Was the scene fanservice? Most definitely. Was it intended as such? Not entirely, I suspect. Is fanservice all there is to it though? Definitely not.

It's easy to get distracted and forget that there are a lot of aspects of that scene that can resonate with people. There's an idea there of accepting and embracing your appearance so that you can be strong in public. I'm sure there are other such morals that could latch on to that scene as an example too. It's fanservice, but it's fanservice that represents something important.

I'm not a big fan of fanservice myself, but I have no problem with fanservice being presented as legitimate plot, no matter how absurd things have to get for that to work. As it was pointed out by Archon, it could just be a bunch of characters running around in skimpy outfits like max level MMO characters.
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Old 2014-05-21, 07:42   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Traece View Post

I'm not a big fan of fanservice myself, but I have no problem with fanservice being presented as legitimate plot, no matter how absurd things have to get for that to work.

With something like Kill La Kill, absurdity in general is already a big part of the show, so absurd ecchi fanservice would more or less reflect the overall tone of the show. But not every show is like that.

I definitely wouldn't want absurd ecchi fanservice showing up in, say, Psycho-Pass.
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Old 2014-05-21, 08:18   Link #38
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Absurdity is fine and some service that goes over the top is fine - but in controlled amounts.

Keeping the adrenaline or the pacing or the impact always on a high eventually kills the meaning of certain scenes or events. Seeing bare bodies too often ruins the thrill. It doesn't do any real justice to the characters either. It's what has always irked me about Imaishi and Umetsu. They do it so often, it becomes nigh impossible to take any element of their work seriously as far as I'm concerned.

Code Geass - I was fine with because it intentionally had episodes where it cooled things down or presented moments to counter things from going too far. I was able to find it fun. From all my years of watching anime, it is still one of only a few titles I find to be genuine fun.

Spice and Wolf - certainly it was quite a feast for the eyes sometimes where Horo was concerned. But she was a classy female and treated as such as well as acting like a reasonable refined, intelligent being.


Just don't make them bare it all the time. It may have been amusing 15 years ago for me, but I'm well over it now.
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Old 2014-05-21, 13:33   Link #39
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KLK was never emant to be taken seriously yet I keep how this symbolism is a metaphor for some cosmic lesson or philosophy....that always been my problem with gainax/trigger shows.
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Old 2014-05-21, 15:05   Link #40
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KLK was never emant to be taken seriously yet I keep how this symbolism is a metaphor for some cosmic lesson or philosophy....that always been my problem with gainax/trigger shows.
No the problem is you keep associating seriousness with moral lessons or philosophies. Everything can be interpreted to have a moral message or meaning regardless of how serious a work is. Even then, why is KLK not suppose to be taken seriously? Did the author say so himself?
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