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Old 2014-05-21, 15:30   Link #41
Triple_R
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I wouldn't say that KLK is completely unserious, but the show has a definite "Rule of Cool" and colorfulness to it. Really, KLK is very fanservicey in the broader sense of the term - It's aiming for high pure entertainment value, and I would argue it mostly succeeds. But it means it's about a serious as, say, pro wrestling. Pro wrestling is probably a good comparable to it - I mean, just about all of KLK's major characters have personal theme music and everything.
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Old 2014-05-21, 17:09   Link #42
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I had little problem with the fanservice in Kill la Kill other than on an aesthetic level (I think a full suit would've looked a lot cooler on Ryuuko, personally) and fanservice was actually pretty intergral to the plot, what with alien clothes being their enemy. Though really I think the fanservice was just another facet of its crude, immature sense of humour (that I totally loved). I certainly wouldn't consider it to be sexist given that it didn't hesitate to have male characters strip down to near naked levels whenever possible (and sometimes for no particular reason).
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Old 2014-05-21, 17:29   Link #43
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Well I think the criticism is a bit unfair definitely towards the show, it's like...

1: Omg fanservice!
2: It actually means something
3: Omg fanservice!
4: It's meant to go with the crude atmosphere
5: Omg fanservice
6: It's more of a satire of other fanservice anime in its genre
7: Omg fanservice
8: Sexuality and body image, as well as our perception of it is a vital part of humanity
9. You perv, go watch real porn!

Like I said, it's fine to level this kind of criticism, but ignoring the narrative and intent, as well as the atmosphere of the show is no different and just as shallow than dismissing a romance show because you're a brain dead shipper (is that redundant?) who can't accept other possibilities. It's one thing to not approve of the show's way of doing things, it's another to flat out deny and dismiss it.

And I'm not even a fan of the show. (Satsuki does have a nice ass though. Her eyebrows might just be as sexy.)
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Old 2014-05-22, 04:35   Link #44
Lyocol
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Male-oriented fanservice = evil
Female-oriented fanservice = good

Like everything else, hatred towards particular fanservice is fueled by double-standards than anything else. I found the gratuitous bishounen fanservice in Free! and countless of shoujo mangas are just as disgusting as gratuitous ecchi fanservice for guys. It's the same old shit actually. Just an exploitation of underage teenage boys by and for women(though Free! is directed and produced by men but the women still need to blame as without them, the show wouldn't exist in first place). The only reason why Free! got less criticism in comparison to similar shows for men like K-On! for example because there is no male equivalent of feminist groups who want to throw their shit at.

Even in surface, Free! is pretty stupid too. Just a group of scantily-clad teenage boys who wanted to show off their bodies than everything else. They don't compete with each other or with other kids from other schools to become professional swimmers. However the biggest sin Free! ever committed is how KyoAni wants it to stay alive, by slaughtering less popular shows like Tamago Market as well as some other shows that aren't yet announced to the public. Tamago market is planned to have a proper 12-episode second season but due to overwhelming but predictable success of Free!, they slashed TM and it was made into a 2-hour movie instead as most of its budget went to develop the yet another season of Free!. If ain't broke why fix it?

To sum it up, the success of Free! is not because it was ground-breaking or something like that but rather it come at the right time aimed towards right audiences. Not to mention it know how to use its fanservice well. K-On! in other hand had very few sex appeal to begin with, even with beach and onsen episodes. However K-On! was popular to someone outside its target demographic because it had much wider appeal than Free!.
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Old 2014-05-22, 08:18   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyocol View Post
To sum it up, the success of Free! is not because it was ground-breaking or something like that but rather it come at the right time aimed towards right audiences. Not to mention it know how to use its fanservice well. K-On! in other hand had very few sex appeal to begin with, even with beach and onsen episodes. However K-On! was popular to someone outside its target demographic because it had much wider appeal than Free!.
They were both titles that highly appealed to females. And I think you underestimate how many males find Free amusing. I certainly couldn't careless about Free but I know loads of males that were into it. Hell, I know loads of guys that watch Junjou Romantica and things of its ilk for kicks. They're definitely straight but they watch that for the lol factor.

Your definition at the start was a real sweeping generalisation. I can understand why you can get mad about this - there are some titles out there that inspire utter stupidity (Amnesia - revelling in being the sex slave of murderers and abusive pimps because they're handsome. Black Bird - Stockholm Syndrome relationships). But times have changed. Females are now a significant part of the market and will be catered for accordingly. Some of them want that kind of show. No single title is mandatory viewing for everyone.


One thing I found most interesting in recent times was the reasons behind the popularity of Elfen Lied in Australia. When I spoke to numerous females at conventions, manga stores and other places over the last few years, Elfen Lied was consistently mentioned by them as a title they really liked. Then the main distributor in Australia did a Top 20 of all time poll, which Elfen Lied ended up making the list for. Turns out that just as many females in my neck of the woods are into Elfen Lied as the guys are. One would have assumed it would be a more male-oriented title. But that hasn't been the case - not all women are turned on/thrilled by half-naked guys or cute shows. Some females have far more vicarious, visceral tastes - which is fine by me. Particularly since I quite like Elfen Lied myself.
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Old 2014-05-22, 14:35   Link #46
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyocol View Post
Male-oriented fanservice = evil
Female-oriented fanservice = good

Like everything else, hatred towards particular fanservice is fueled by double-standards than anything else. I found the gratuitous bishounen fanservice in Free! and countless of shoujo mangas are just as disgusting as gratuitous ecchi fanservice for guys. It's the same old shit actually. Just an exploitation of underage teenage boys by and for women(though Free! is directed and produced by men but the women still need to blame as without them, the show wouldn't exist in first place). The only reason why Free! got less criticism in comparison to similar shows for men like K-On! for example because there is no male equivalent of feminist groups who want to throw their shit at.

Even in surface, Free! is pretty stupid too. Just a group of scantily-clad teenage boys who wanted to show off their bodies than everything else. They don't compete with each other or with other kids from other schools to become professional swimmers. However the biggest sin Free! ever committed is how KyoAni wants it to stay alive, by slaughtering less popular shows like Tamago Market as well as some other shows that aren't yet announced to the public. Tamago market is planned to have a proper 12-episode second season but due to overwhelming but predictable success of Free!, they slashed TM and it was made into a 2-hour movie instead as most of its budget went to develop the yet another season of Free!. If ain't broke why fix it?

To sum it up, the success of Free! is not because it was ground-breaking or something like that but rather it come at the right time aimed towards right audiences. Not to mention it know how to use its fanservice well. K-On! in other hand had very few sex appeal to begin with, even with beach and onsen episodes. However K-On! was popular to someone outside its target demographic because it had much wider appeal than Free!.
I don't remember Free receiving any critical accolades. And there were many people who dismissed it off the bat as being "gay" or whatnot, so if anything female oriented fanservice seems to be the evil thing. I mean Free's only crime from your analysis besides being terrible (But then considering its peers, so that's nothing special either) is that it had females as a primary demographic and thus it sold to said demographic; sure it sorta just phoned it in and received money but that doesn't really mean much anyways when you have stuff like IS2 and TLR Darkness selling by the truckload. I guess it's fair to say that female fans can just be as easily enticed as male fans. And really why should a business push ahead a product that doesn't sell. It's lamentable as a fan, but "critical" praise doesn't put enough food (or drugs) on the table. Shaft would know that.

The other problem is that you really can't correlate things down to a single cause. I think indeed if there is any unfair leniency giving to Free, it's more likely by those fans that are stuck in 2006 and think that Kyoto Animation still matters. If anything, one would think that the relative less quantity of female oriented fanservice would cause those fans to flock to whatever notable sources there are around, and thus those would sell comparatively better.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2014-05-22 at 14:55.
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Old 2014-05-22, 14:48   Link #47
Reckoner
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I don't really respect the notion of most sexual fanservice, whether it is a show that is all about that kind of fan service, or if it's a show that merely happens to have it. I don't need to zoom in on a bunch of balloons on my screen for entertainment. The way that most shows go about implementing fan service is like showing off slabs of meat at the market. It is revolting and demeaning.
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Old 2014-05-22, 17:47   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well I think the criticism is a bit unfair definitely towards the show, it's like...

1: Omg fanservice!
2: It actually means something
3: Omg fanservice!
4: It's meant to go with the crude atmosphere
5: Omg fanservice
6: It's more of a satire of other fanservice anime in its genre
7: Omg fanservice
8: Sexuality and body image, as well as our perception of it is a vital part of humanity
9. You perv, go watch real porn!

Like I said, it's fine to level this kind of criticism, but ignoring the narrative and intent, as well as the atmosphere of the show is no different and just as shallow than dismissing a romance show because you're a brain dead shipper (is that redundant?) who can't accept other possibilities. It's one thing to not approve of the show's way of doing things, it's another to flat out deny and dismiss it.

And I'm not even a fan of the show. (Satsuki does have a nice ass though. Her eyebrows might just be as sexy.)
I am one of those people sadly. Sometimes I wonder if KLK is a satire on fanservice, the fashion industry, nudity or something else but it has more to do with being it a Trigger/Gainax anime if anything.
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Old 2014-05-22, 21:47   Link #49
Darthtabby
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I'm pretty sure that fan service directed at a male audience massively outstrips that directed at a female audience in anime. Free was considered highly notable for its female oriented fan service but there are loads of male oriented ecchi anime that make it look tame in comparison.

Now regarding something more related to the original topic, one of my biggest problems with gratuitous fan service and ecchi humor is that it makes sharing the anime I love with those outside the fandom rather awkward. I can be forgiving if the fan service/ecchi humor contributes something significant to the show -while not the main premise, the creativity and sheer aplomb of Ben-to's fan service is part of that show's brand of outrageously over the top fun. But its kind of frustrating when there's a show that I think would be nearly perfect to show a non-otaku audience if it wasn't for some annoying bits of unnecessary fan service and/or ecchi humor. Surely not every show needs that kind of thing. (And yes, I know that technically not every show has it -but its enough that its hard for me to think of many shows on my favorites list that I would be comfortable showing to an audience of the uninitiated.)
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Old 2014-05-22, 22:12   Link #50
Marcus H.
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Free was considered highly notable for its female oriented fan service but there are loads of male oriented ecchi anime that make it look tame in comparison.
I remember an anime series called Gravitation. I didn't touch the series with a ten-foot pole, but my friend did always talk about it.
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Old 2014-05-22, 22:40   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I remember an anime series called Gravitation. I didn't touch the series with a ten-foot pole, but my friend did always talk about it.
Gravitation was tame. Junjou Romantica went way deeper than that. Mind you, the dynamics were similar.

I don't mind females getting catered for service-wise. What I do mind is when those people get violent and start verbally or physically assaulting people that don't worship the titles they do. Trust me, I have come across a fair number of them.
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Old 2014-05-22, 22:51   Link #52
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What I do mind is when those people get violent and start verbally or physically assaulting people that don't worship the titles they do. Trust me, I have come across a fair number of them.
Woah. They should getting counselling 24x7. That's fucked up.
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Old 2014-05-22, 22:58   Link #53
Lyocol
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Women won't be watching Queen's Blade and Freezing anytime soon. I guess men are more adventurous, which was natural for them. Women in other hand won't find themselves watching QB or Freezing even just for "lol" factor.
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Old 2014-05-22, 23:09   Link #54
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^ You are quite certain of your baseless assumption. I know one female poster here who's favorite show is Seikon no Qwaser.
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Old 2014-05-22, 23:14   Link #55
mistress_kisara
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Originally Posted by Lyocol View Post
Women won't be watching Queen's Blade and Freezing anytime soon. I guess men are more adventurous, which was natural for them. Women in other hand won't find themselves watching QB or Freezing even just for "lol" factor.
Ugghhh what?
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Old 2014-05-23, 00:03   Link #56
Marcus H.
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^ You are quite certain of your baseless assumption. I know one female poster here who's favorite show is Seikon no Qwaser.
On the flipside, male fans would be shocked to find out that Fairy Tail has a lot of female fans, but that's probably because of Gray (voiced by Yuuichi Nakamura).
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Old 2014-05-23, 00:55   Link #57
Lyocol
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Originally Posted by mistress_kisara View Post
Ugghhh what?
One question: Will you watch Queen's Blade or Freezing right now?

If your answer is "no" and that's fine. It is natural for women to hate ecchi shows as much as men hate yaoi ones.

By the way we shouldn't pay too much attention on vocal minorities(men who loves yaoi and women who loves hentai for examples) and look on silent majority instead.
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Old 2014-05-23, 01:27   Link #58
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By the way we shouldn't pay too much attention on vocal minorities(men who loves yaoi and women who loves hentai for examples) and look on silent majority instead.
Then it goes both ways, you won't see men watching female-oriented shows as well..
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Old 2014-05-23, 02:39   Link #59
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Then it goes both ways, you won't see men watching female-oriented shows as well..
I know that there are quite a few men who are fans of Sailor Moon and not just becuase of the fanservice.
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Old 2014-05-23, 03:46   Link #60
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I know that there are quite a few men who are fans of Sailor Moon and not just becuase of the fanservice.
That doesn't count. It's the nostalgia factor. Same reason why Dragon Ball is seen as the "god of shounen" by many.
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