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Old 2014-05-23, 03:57   Link #61
hyl
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
That doesn't count. It's the nostalgia factor. Same reason why Dragon Ball is seen as the "god of shounen" by many.
How is that a "nostalgia factor" when some of us even grew up with that serie and liked it back then?
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Old 2014-05-23, 05:00   Link #62
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You don't have nostalgia for something when you are watched as it aired during the 90s. Nostalgia is there when one continues to like it two plus decades later.
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Old 2014-05-23, 06:14   Link #63
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What, man, what feeling do I have when I'm watching cartoons from my childhood then?
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Old 2014-05-23, 06:22   Link #64
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You have them later in life. Not when you were waching them the first time.
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Old 2014-05-23, 06:24   Link #65
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I think the nostalgia criticism is a bit overused.

If something creates a feeling of nostalgia for you then it almost certainly means you liked it in the first place when you experienced it for the first time way back when. Nostalgia may cause us to overestimate something slightly, but I don't think it's impact is as big as it's often made out to be.
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Old 2014-05-23, 11:58   Link #66
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If anything, Notalgia makes more sense, since it was created a via a perspective that was made in that context that cannot be achieved anymore.

Watching something like the original Gundam or Evangelion at this point would generate a completely different reaction.

A good example are movies with revolutionary special effects for the time but of course look quite lame compared to modern standards.
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Old 2014-05-23, 17:29   Link #67
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An inevitable fact of the industry is even the majority of the titles at the highest-selling end of the spectrum are cranking a significant amount of fanservice. It will be a part of a good deal of titles. But as always, viewing any specific title isn't mandatory.
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Old 2014-05-23, 18:05   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
An inevitable fact of the industry is even the majority of the titles at the highest-selling end of the spectrum are cranking a significant amount of fanservice. It will be a part of a good deal of titles. But as always, viewing any specific title isn't mandatory.
Yea but that's okay. Because the highest selling stuff also balance that fanservice out with great plot. Fanservice is OKAY if there is balance and the amount that is put in is controlled.
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Old 2014-05-23, 18:18   Link #69
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Originally Posted by IceHism View Post
Yea but that's okay. Because the highest selling stuff also balance that fanservice out with great plot. Fanservice is OKAY if there is balance and the amount that is put in is controlled.
Which I had previously stated. It's a necessity at times.
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Old 2014-05-23, 18:29   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
An inevitable fact of the industry is even the majority of the titles at the highest-selling end of the spectrum are cranking a significant amount of fanservice. It will be a part of a good deal of titles. But as always, viewing any specific title isn't mandatory.
That's not even true though there's little to no fanservice in all the mainstream titles and glancing at the top of this list even best selling titles among late night shows aimed at the otaku market have mostly little to no fanservice from memory except a couple SHAFT products, certainly not the majority of them.
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Old 2014-05-23, 18:34   Link #71
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I honestly find the fanservice of the "skirt-flip, pantyshot, guy accidentally gropes a girl's breast" type to be less prevalent in recent years than past ones. Perhaps that's where I watch very little harem or shounen these days, but I can think of plenty of recent anime that had minimal ecchi fanservice:

Fate/Zero
Hyouka
Tari Tari
Chihayafuru
Little Busters!
Madoka Magica: Rebellion movie
Arpeggio of Blue Steel
Valvrave the Liberator
Nagi no Asukara
Samurai Flamenco
The Pilot's Love Song
Buddy Complex

I wouldn't say these shows are completely sterilized of sex appeal content, but then most entertainment isn't. The key, at least to me, is that these shows have very little if anything in them that I'd actually be embarrassed to be caught watching in the presence of a non-anime fan. When it comes to that, I felt 2009 and 2010 were significantly worse than what we have now. Back then, I shared Darthtabby's sense of wishing there was more anime that I could feel comfortable watching with a general non-hardcore fan audience.

I honestly think the overall balance of fanservice in anime is pretty good right now. There is the odd time where it comes up that I wish it didn't, but by the same token, there's some shows that I actually think would be better with more fanservice (ex. anime has this strange aversion to showing couples kissing; let the fans have some fun please!)
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Old 2014-05-23, 18:37   Link #72
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Originally Posted by itisjustme View Post
That's not even true though there's little to no fanservice in all the mainstream titles and glancing at the top of this list even best selling titles among late night shows aimed at the otaku market have mostly little to no fanservice from memory except a couple SHAFT products, certainly not the majority of them.
It would depend on what is your definition of fanservice as stated earlier in this thread. Ecchi isn't the only form of fanservice.
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Old 2014-05-23, 18:48   Link #73
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Originally Posted by IceHism View Post
It would depend on what is your definition of fanservice as stated earlier in this thread. Ecchi isn't the only form of fanservice.
Hmm I thought this tread was mostly discussing the common definition of fanservice as gratuitous boob/panty shot and other sexual service.

If you take it in a broader sense of "stuff put in expressly to please the fans" I'd argue it's really more common sense.It makes sense to load out on fighting/action scenes in an action/shounen show, like it makes sense for mecha shows to load on mechas, horror shows to load up on gore, harem shows to load up on girls and romance shows to load up on romantic moments or whatever, because it's what those shows are about in the first place.

Edit: I see moe mentioned and I'd agree, but K-On would be the first moeblob show on the list at 16th and I don't recall mainstream titles (like Pokemon, Sazae-san, Doreamon, Toriko, Crayon Shin-chan, Naruto, One Piece, Conan, DBZ, Inuyasha, etc) selling moe. One Piece has some pretty tame amount of boobs and that's about it. Point is you don't need fanservice to sell.

Last edited by itisjustme; 2014-05-23 at 19:11.
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Old 2014-05-29, 08:58   Link #74
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My take on fanservice and/or ecchi:

In Visual Novels, I don't mind it all unless it's beyond pointless and tacked-on (yes, that happens also in 18+ VNs)

In anime/manga: I've grown very tired of it. I do not hate it and appreciate a nice body as much as everyone else, but meanwhile I simply skip over it and file at as "just another scene" and/or don't make xx amount of posts based on it. In contrast to the healthy majority of thread posters (based on my few anime posts). No offense intended.

If the manga/anime's or an chapter/episode's "main" purpose is fanservice/ecchi (+ comedy) and I'm aware of that main purpose, I'll probably don't bother reading it at all.
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Old 2014-05-29, 12:35   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Lyocol View Post
Male-oriented fanservice = evil
Female-oriented fanservice = good

Like everything else, hatred towards particular fanservice is fueled by double-standards than anything else. I found the gratuitous bishounen fanservice in Free! and countless of shoujo mangas are just as disgusting as gratuitous ecchi fanservice for guys. It's the same old shit actually. Just an exploitation of underage teenage boys by and for women(though Free! is directed and produced by men but the women still need to blame as without them, the show wouldn't exist in first place). The only reason why Free! got less criticism in comparison to similar shows for men like K-On! for example because there is no male equivalent of feminist groups who want to throw their shit at.

Even in surface, Free! is pretty stupid too. Just a group of scantily-clad teenage boys who wanted to show off their bodies than everything else. They don't compete with each other or with other kids from other schools to become professional swimmers. However the biggest sin Free! ever committed is how KyoAni wants it to stay alive, by slaughtering less popular shows like Tamago Market as well as some other shows that aren't yet announced to the public. Tamago market is planned to have a proper 12-episode second season but due to overwhelming but predictable success of Free!, they slashed TM and it was made into a 2-hour movie instead as most of its budget went to develop the yet another season of Free!. If ain't broke why fix it?

To sum it up, the success of Free! is not because it was ground-breaking or something like that but rather it come at the right time aimed towards right audiences. Not to mention it know how to use its fanservice well. K-On! in other hand had very few sex appeal to begin with, even with beach and onsen episodes. However K-On! was popular to someone outside its target demographic because it had much wider appeal than Free!.
Oh shush.

So over this 'MALE FANSERVICE IS AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL BUT FEMALE FANSERVICE IS GENIUS' BS. This is exactly the kind of sexist and misogynist attitude that I seriously hate about male fans.

Sorry if the show you liked got canceled, but hey....Free was successful. Tamako Market wasn't. If something hits and is successful, of course the company would want to use its success and market it no matter what. And anyway, Tamako Market was obviously successful enough to get a movie. So stop bitching.

If you want to talk about male fanservice and all....and I say this as a fan of this series too....K was basically 'LOOKIT AT ALL THE MALE CHARACTERS LOOKING COOL AND SHIT FANGIRLS'.

Sex sells, no matter what gender you are. There's just happens to be more female fan service because the majority of anime watchers are male though I have noticed in the last three, four years there's been a steady increase of female fans.
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Old 2014-05-29, 16:53   Link #76
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@GDiddy: I hate to say this but as a fellow woman I can tell Free! is just as bullshit as much as countless of ecchi shows that you hates. I also to see fangirls using word "misogynistic" to attack fanboys while they aren't different. What about countless of shoujo manga that treat women like dirt for ages. They can bitch about how female characters in male-oriented anime and manga are treated like sex object but fail to notice how the female characters are mistreated, abused, etc. In other words you are bitching as much Lyocol is bitching. Both sides need to be blamed.
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Old 2014-05-29, 19:33   Link #77
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@GDiddy: I hate to say this but as a fellow woman I can tell Free! is just as bullshit as much as countless of ecchi shows that you hates. I also to see fangirls using word "misogynistic" to attack fanboys while they aren't different. What about countless of shoujo manga that treat women like dirt for ages. They can bitch about how female characters in male-oriented anime and manga are treated like sex object but fail to notice how the female characters are mistreated, abused, etc. In other words you are bitching as much Lyocol is bitching. Both sides need to be blamed.
What I wrote wasn't meant to be taken that way, and I do apologize for going off. But I don't regret what I say about fanboys being misogynist...and yes, fangirls are just as bad. So you're completely right about that and again, I do apologize for going off.

However, I'm tired of reading how people complain about how something doesn't attract them and because of that is automatically deemed bad. Free does pander to females...yes, I do admit that as well...but compare the male fanservice in that to HOW many shows that have female fanservice? That's all I'm saying.

As for shojo, I don't read that much of it, so if it is like that, then that's shitty too.

Sex sells no matter what gender you are. Don't like the series then don't watch.

But don't go pretending you're innocent of bitching too; I've seen you around here gurl. We all do it.
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Old 2014-05-30, 06:48   Link #78
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I don't watch that much shojo either but from the shojo I did see, there is plenty of wish fulfillment for both genders. While I mostly associate fanservice with males, there is plenty of shirtless scenes that women can sink their teeth into.
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Old 2014-06-04, 21:41   Link #79
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I don't watch that much shojo either but from the shojo I did see, there is plenty of wish fulfillment for both genders. While I mostly associate fanservice with males, there is plenty of shirtless scenes that women can sink their teeth into.
This is pretty much why these things exist at all. If you want to make a lot of money off anime-watching shoujos, you stick a bunch of mostly-naked men in speedos on screen and then buy a bigger bank vault.

As GDiddy pointed out, sex does sell. There's a reason why Highschool of the Dead has any popularity, and whether we choose to admit it or not it's not because it has people killing zombies in it. I'm sure we've come full circle back to this point by now, but it really needs to be said again.

At the end of the day, money is the difference between K-On! and Free!. As I quipped before, young girls really like charming, handsome guys in speedos (if I were a young girl, I would totally like that too). If Free! happens to also be good, then that's just icing on the well-toned and muscular cake. Same goes with males and gratuitous fanservice. Unsurprisingly younger males really like them some bullets being fired between bouncing oppai, and thigh-highs. Gotta pander to those fans and make that sweet, sweet money. I know for a fact that the minute society determines fanservice to be the worst possible thing, entertainment will drop the concept in a heartbeat and pursue other interests. You go where the fans are.

I won't deny that females get the short end of the stick volume-wise. It's definitely not true to say that it only happens to them, however, and if you think that then reality would like a word with you.

As far as being turned off of a show purely because of fanservice, I like to point people toward Accel World. There's a very large amount of people who were turned off from Accel World (myself included) because the main character is a fat, bullied loser. It's easy to fall into that trap whether you're a seasoned anime veteran, or just a casual viewer. Accel World is actually good, and absolutely worth watching, but it has that hurdle at the start. It's very easy for people to get tunnel vision and forget that beyond Free!'s speedo-hunks there might be some sort of story in there.

If fanservice is a big problem for any one of you, my suggestion is that you really evaluate whether a little bit of side-boob maido-swimsuit is actually detrimental to every other aspect of the show as a whole. Even though I think that Highschool of the Dead is boobs firing guns and swinging swords, I still accept that fanservice is a separate entity from the story (that's not to say that HSotD has good writing either).

The morale of this post is: A rock is just a rock, but a well-polished rock is a cool rock. Sticking boobs on a rock doesn't make it inherently better, because now it's just a rock with boobs glued on.
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Old 2014-06-05, 03:01   Link #80
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So from just reading the opening post. I knew a friend that was kind of like that. So I don't have a problem with them, only if they overuse it obnoxiously. I can definitely see lots of guys doing that as well. Otherwise studios wouldn't still be focusing on them.
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