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Old 2014-07-07, 07:21   Link #321
black_cat1
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Don't forget to count Shizuku in, and I think Erika will end with Leo. I don't see any chance for her at all.

Tatsuya does not have feeling more than a brother to Miyuki so he definitely won't choose her.

4 possible candidates are Lina, Mayumi, Ayako and Shizuku. Also, there might be Kasumi if the author wants.
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Old 2014-07-07, 07:30   Link #322
Echizen777
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Originally Posted by black_cat1 View Post
Don't forget to count Shizuku in, and I think Erika will end with Leo. I don't see any chance for her at all.

Tatsuya does not have feeling more than a brother to Miyuki so he definitely won't choose her.

4 possible candidates are Lina, Mayumi, Ayako and Shizuku. Also, there might be Kasumi if the author wants.
I really wonder why people are including Shizuku in all this, can't she just admire him without being in love? It's funny that you put her but not Honoka while she is doing her best to put them together.
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Old 2014-07-07, 07:40   Link #323
black_cat1
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I really wonder why people are including Shizuku in all this, can't she just admire him without being in love? It's funny that you put her but not Honoka while she is doing her best to put them together.
Having feeling doesn't mean she will join in the battle. We have seen lots of chars start as a good friend of the heroine but then become her rival in manga.

Shizuku herself already admire Tatsuya and she also has some heart-warming moments with him such as when she was drunk or when she was embarrassing by her mother. Even her parents realized something from her being attracted by Tatsuya and her mother is highly against that. It is only her duty as Honoka's best friend that cloud her feeling about Tatsuya. I think depend on the situation, the author might use Shizuku as a wild card to heat up the love-fight for Tatsuya.
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Old 2014-07-07, 08:09   Link #324
Echizen777
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Originally Posted by black_cat1 View Post
Having feeling doesn't mean she will join in the battle. We have seen lots of chars start as a good friend of the heroine but then become her rival in manga.

Shizuku herself already admire Tatsuya and she also has some heart-warming moments with him such as when she was drunk or when she was embarrassing by her mother. Even her parents realized something from her being attracted by Tatsuya and her mother is highly against that. It is only her duty as Honoka's best friend that cloud her feeling about Tatsuya. I think depend on the situation, the author might use Shizuku as a wild card to heat up the love-fight for Tatsuya.
It would be really terrible if love rivalry in Mahouka was like that especially considering Tatsuya's character. Shizuku's loving him would add nothing to the story and if she tries(I wonder how) she would have to have the kind of discussion a best friend always have with a rival in love(I really don't want Shizuku to act like that) and then what will she do I wonder, Honoka/Shizuku relationship will never be the same after that especially with Honoka being an Element. I like that she is the only one who doesn't love him in her trio.

I don't want a broken Honoka, though many girls love him and it is possible to say Tatsuya has a small harem the way it is executed actually is very good and there is the Honoka/Miyuki rivalry for laughs.

Drunken Shizuku was not really something to tease this couple and both Shizuku and her brother admire him, unless you think her brother is gay it is not a hint that she loves him.

It would do no good to this story.
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Old 2014-07-07, 09:50   Link #325
pampz21
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Uh yea I am. Mayumi's father would have married Tatsuya's aunt if not for the attack. By marrying Tats to Mayumi they have the connection they would have had between the families had the attack not occured. Mayumi probably likes him as well so that makes things easier. I also don't see the Saegusa's terribly objecting to Tatsuya as her suitor if they knew the full story. I get the feeling especially from Jumonjii that pretty much the other families could care less about the technical aspects, and would be blown away just from his raw power and abilities. I mean Maya is arguably one of the strongest mages in existence, and Tatsuya could probably beat her. Kudo has even hinted at wanting Tatsuya for his skill, and lamenting how he is being wasted in his current situation. The only thing really going against this is Mayumi currently being out of the picture. But with the twins there, there is plenty of chance for interaction.

I have read through 12, so maybe 13 has some information that contradicts, but I doubt it.

I don't understand why you would think Lina is off the table. Their contact ended with Tatsuya basically telling her to come back, and she clearly likes him. I would say its only a matter of time before she finds some way to come back.


Tatsuya and Achan actually would be hilarious. But I think it would fail for the same reason it would fail with Honoka. Tatsuya needs some aggressive personality, either mayumi's tease, erika's fire, lina's arrogance/confidence, or Miyuki's zealotry. Honoka and A chan are kind of like mibu, I feel like they would fall behind.


Also for the record, I think the perfect person for him would be Mari, but she was taken off the board from the get go. I haven't seen enough of the cousin, but she could be interesting as well.

Did you even wonder why the Yotsuba and the Seagusa are in bad terms?

If not then I'll tell...

It's
Pride

Its a petty pride and you want Tatsuya to marry off; for something stupid like that; come on man give Tatsuya-kun some credit, he deserve more than that...if Koichi can just apologize and admit that Maya has become a stronger person than him it wouldnt even escalate like this.

About Lina her leaving the Military is a very stupid choice; you can just say she triggered the death flag....if you dont know what I mean let me give you a hint....
What is the only thing that her and Tatsuya have in common?

Tuturu! Tatsuya sympathize her as they are both Military....then if she leaves the Military she is nothing to Tatsuya; what is there to sympathize a civillian; Lina would jusy be Honoka #2.
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Old 2014-07-07, 10:27   Link #326
black_cat1
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Originally Posted by Echizen777 View Post
It would be really terrible if love rivalry in Mahouka was like that especially considering Tatsuya's character. Shizuku's loving him would add nothing to the story and if she tries(I wonder how) she would have to have the kind of discussion a best friend always have with a rival in love(I really don't want Shizuku to act like that) and then what will she do I wonder, Honoka/Shizuku relationship will never be the same after that especially with Honoka being an Element. I like that she is the only one who doesn't love him in her trio.

I don't want a broken Honoka, though many girls love him and it is possible to say Tatsuya has a small harem the way it is executed actually is very good and there is the Honoka/Miyuki rivalry for laughs.

Drunken Shizuku was not really something to tease this couple and both Shizuku and her brother admire him, unless you think her brother is gay it is not a hint that she loves him.

It would do no good to this story.
Well, as I said, it depends on the author to choose. Shizuku has her own fans too and if the author wants her to join in, then he must write the suitable situation for her. And you are too haste to say that Honoka will be heart broken just because Shizuku realizes her feeling for Tatsuya. If Honoka was like that, then she would be heart broken when Tatsuya rejected her. Honoka is not that weak you know, and every1 do know that her ship won't make it to the end anyway.

In my opinion, I don't think the author will choose Shizuku or Honoka, their existence only for the sake of hilarious situations just like Erika. Hence the other candidates who have the biggest chance are Mayumi, Lina and Ayako. Kasumi is still a mystery, we will she if she could be a tsundere for Tatsuya
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Old 2014-07-07, 12:38   Link #327
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Do you guys think it`s possible for Tatsuya to pass through objects?I mean,if he used destruction to destroy everything he touches(on a molecular level) and reconstruct it after passing through it would seem like he`s passing through objects/wall. , althought it would kill a person if he tried to pass through a human being.
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Old 2014-07-07, 14:14   Link #328
black_cat1
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Originally Posted by cadu_ View Post
Do you guys think it`s possible for Tatsuya to pass through objects?I mean,if he used destruction to destroy everything he touches(on a molecular level) and reconstruct it after passing through it would seem like he`s passing through objects/wall. , althought it would kill a person if he tried to pass through a human being.
It is not passing through objects, he just make people think he can do that while he actually does not,

What I'm more interested in now is the ability to control energy and the possible of creating thing. We all know that he can convert matter to energy as in Material Burst, then can he reverse energy to create matter. He can read the structure of object then is there any possibility that he can transform object to another object like turn a tree to papers?
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Old 2014-07-07, 15:40   Link #329
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Originally Posted by black_cat1 View Post
It is not passing through objects, he just make people think he can do that while he actually does not,
Tatsuya never passed through objects so far,he only decomposed walls in order to "make" shortcuts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by black_cat1 View Post
What I'm more interested in now is the ability to control energy and the possible of creating thing. We all know that he can convert matter to energy as in Material Burst, then can he reverse energy to create matter. He can read the structure of object then is there any possibility that he can transform object to another object like turn a tree to papers?
I dont think so, because he`s magic is to decompose/reconstruct eidos and not control energy. Althought we say "convert" actually he`s decomposing the atoms in order to make them release their energy(or something along these lines).
Tatsuya can recreate anything that he decomposed,so if he decomposes a bar of gold he would be able to reconstruct many bars of gold(isnt that like a game resource cheat?XD),I believe that would count as "create things".But turn a tree into paper?I dont think so.
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Old 2014-07-07, 16:33   Link #330
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Tatsuya never passed through objects so far,he only decomposed walls in order to "make" shortcuts.

I dont think so, because he`s magic is to decompose/reconstruct eidos and not control energy. Althought we say "convert" actually he`s decomposing the atoms in order to make them release their energy(or something along these lines).
Tatsuya can recreate anything that he decomposed,so if he decomposes a bar of gold he would be able to reconstruct many bars of gold(isnt that like a game resource cheat?XD),I believe that would count as "create things".But turn a tree into paper?I dont think so.
Hmm, if he reconstructs eidos, then it's more likely that he would need gold bits to turn them back into gold bars. Video games create money out of literally nothing.
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Old 2014-07-07, 17:36   Link #331
mrSh4dy
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It is not passing through objects, he just make people think he can do that while he actually does not,

What I'm more interested in now is the ability to control energy and the possible of creating thing. We all know that he can convert matter to energy as in Material Burst, then can he reverse energy to create matter. He can read the structure of object then is there any possibility that he can transform object to another object like turn a tree to papers?
That would make the current major magic plothole even more obvious.

Take his regrowth power. When Lina blasted his arm to ash he was able to reconstruct it, however where did the "material" to reconstruct his arm come from?
In our world there is this balance that whatever you do to molecular structures the atoms that formed that previous structure still exist but in different forms.
So did he gather all the scattered atoms, molecules and energy restructured it to "regrow" his arm?

Considering the speed this seems unlikely thus it's obvious that what Tatsuya does breaks the worlds physics . Which are the same in Mahouka world as in ours as far as I can tell. Besides we where told that magicians in general just fool physics creating certain effects.

Any way on to Material burst.
To keep it simple what material burst does is breaking the "shell/bonds" of the targets atoms which results in a direct conversion to energy (it's infinitely more complex then that but I wouldn't be able to explain it all).
However if he reconstructs this object he would need to restore all that energy and essentially recreate matter from energy (restoring all the bonds that where there before etc.). But that energy is not there anymore the explosion and the destruction is what that energy has "changed" into. So to recreate he should technically take the energy from someplace else and use that to recreate his targeted object.... seems unlikely he could do that. Then again he can magically restore his arm without using molecules/atoms etc. so who am I to say he can't, it's just that I can't see it happening
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Old 2014-07-07, 22:33   Link #332
Pierre
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Originally Posted by pampz21 View Post
Did you even wonder why the Yotsuba and the Seagusa are in bad terms?

If not then I'll tell...

It's
Pride

Its a petty pride and you want Tatsuya to marry off; for something stupid like that; come on man give Tatsuya-kun some credit, he deserve more than that...if Koichi can just apologize and admit that Maya has become a stronger person than him it wouldnt even escalate like this.

About Lina her leaving the Military is a very stupid choice; you can just say she triggered the death flag....if you dont know what I mean let me give you a hint....
What is the only thing that her and Tatsuya have in common?

Tuturu! Tatsuya sympathize her as they are both Military....then if she leaves the Military she is nothing to Tatsuya; what is there to sympathize a civillian; Lina would jusy be Honoka #2.
Look I understand they don't like each other. But the easiest or usually most common way to smooth over tensions is through arraigned marriages. That is why they exist. I am not saying Tatsuya should be forced to marry mayumi, I am saying if he somehow got back his emotions and came to like her, and married here, that could be a start of building bridges. Especially if you have Miyuki take over the Yotsuba. Whats best is not always easiest.

Regarding Lina, there is a big difference between her and Honoka, whether she is in the military or not, she is at least an equal or close to an equal to Tatsuya in terms of power and background. And although she can be dere, she will push Tatsuya if need be. Honoka would just be sitting their waiting for a pat on the head the whole time.

Also I did get that Shizuku might like tatsuya. I mean her mom pretty much said as much, and I assume her mom knows her better than anyone. I think its a combination of being Honoka's friend and her personality, which is why she will never make a move.
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Old 2014-07-08, 04:01   Link #333
black_cat1
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Originally Posted by mrSh4dy View Post
That would make the current major magic plothole even more obvious.

Take his regrowth power. When Lina blasted his arm to ash he was able to reconstruct it, however where did the "material" to reconstruct his arm come from?
In our world there is this balance that whatever you do to molecular structures the atoms that formed that previous structure still exist but in different forms.
So did he gather all the scattered atoms, molecules and energy restructured it to "regrow" his arm?

Considering the speed this seems unlikely thus it's obvious that what Tatsuya does breaks the worlds physics . Which are the same in Mahouka world as in ours as far as I can tell. Besides we where told that magicians in general just fool physics creating certain effects.
Precisely, magicians fool the Eidos to create phenomenons. Eidos exists in a different dimension call Idea, just simply think of it like code in a program. Eidos control real-world events so if you can control Eidos then you can control phenomenons. "Regrowth" only commands the Eidos to restore its information to the time before injuries happen, then Eidos will do the work and create phenomenon such as reconstructing Tatsuya's arm. You can image it just like when we delete some word in MS-WORD then use Ctrl+Z to restore them again.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mrSh4dy View Post
Any way on to Material burst.
To keep it simple what material burst does is breaking the "shell/bonds" of the targets atoms which results in a direct conversion to energy (it's infinitely more complex then that but I wouldn't be able to explain it all).
However if he reconstructs this object he would need to restore all that energy and essentially recreate matter from energy (restoring all the bonds that where there before etc.). But that energy is not there anymore the explosion and the destruction is what that energy has "changed" into. So to recreate he should technically take the energy from someplace else and use that to recreate his targeted object.... seems unlikely he could do that. Then again he can magically restore his arm without using molecules/atoms etc. so who am I to say he can't, it's just that I can't see it happening
You go too deep, man. LN already said that Tatsuya can control the Eidos, he doesn't need to care about those complex stuffs you said. Tatsuya only needs to command the Eidos and let them do the work. Just like normal people can use Window but they don't understand the mechanisms behind it.
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Old 2014-07-08, 04:19   Link #334
amtro
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The law of energy conservation applies. Refer to volume 10
Spoiler for Volume 10 in spoiler box to not flood the page with text:
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Old 2014-07-08, 05:07   Link #335
mrSh4dy
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Originally Posted by black_cat1 View Post
Precisely, magicians fool the Eidos to create phenomenons. Eidos exists in a different dimension call Idea, just simply think of it like code in a program. Eidos control real-world events so if you can control Eidos then you can control phenomenons. "Regrowth" only commands the Eidos to restore its information to the time before injuries happen, then Eidos will do the work and create phenomenon such as reconstructing Tatsuya's arm. You can image it just like when we delete some word in MS-WORD then use Ctrl+Z to restore them again.






You go too deep, man. LN already said that Tatsuya can control the Eidos, he doesn't need to care about those complex stuffs you said. Tatsuya only needs to command the Eidos and let them do the work. Just like normal people can use Window but they don't understand the mechanisms behind it.
From what I understood about the concept of magic in this series is that a magician just fools the laws of physics for a short while.
For example Miyuki's ice magic just slows down the individual particles creating the ice effect (this is how it works in our world as well) this ability to alter the state of matter is what a magician in Mahouka series does and what is obviously impossible in our world.
So no, Miyuki doesn't create ice from nothing she uses the existing laws of physics and influences them to create ice. To do this she uses the fictional Eidos and Idea. However to actually create something out of nothing is impossible for all but Tatsuya.

Why the author overlooked this I don't know it just breaks with what he has established in this series (magic=manipulation of physics).
This doesn't mean I think regrowth isn't possible just at the speeds Tatsuya is able to doesn't make sense.

PS: Eidos is some sort of weird magical energy that a magician uses to interfere with objects,atoms, molecules etc..
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Old 2014-07-08, 05:13   Link #336
amtro
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Refer to my previous post. The only law being circumvented here is supposedly the first law, but that is not necessarily the truth since the world of mahouka is not a closed system and mages are supplied with energy from the information dimension during spellcasting.
What you assume you're observing is a net decrease in entropy, but in truth Tatsuya is accessing a vast wellspring of energy known as the restorative powers of the eidos.
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Old 2014-07-08, 05:13   Link #337
Echizen777
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Originally Posted by mrSh4dy View Post
From what I understood about the concept of magic in this series is that a magician just fools the laws of physics for a short while.
For example Miyuki's ice magic just slows down the individual particles creating the ice effect (this is how it works in our world as well) this ability to alter the state of matter is what a magician in Mahouka series does and what is obviously impossible in our world.
Miyuki doesn't create ice from nothing she uses the existing laws of physics and influences them to create ice. To do this she uses the fictional Eidos and Idea. However to actually create something out of nothing is impossible for all but Tatsuya.

Why the author overlooked this I don't know it just breaks with what he has established in this series (magic=manipulation of physics).
This doesn't mean I think regrowth isn't possible just at the speeds Tatsuya is able to doesn't make sense.

PS: Eidos is some sort of weird magical energy that a magician uses to interfere with objects,atoms, molecules etc..
Magic is not manipulation of physics. It's reality warping with various duration, Tatsuya already explained how magic fools the laws of physics. It is better explained in the newly translated background of volume 5

Spoiler for Quote:
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Old 2014-07-08, 06:32   Link #338
mrSh4dy
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Refer to my previous post. The only law being circumvented here is supposedly the first law, but that is not necessarily the truth since the world of mahouka is not a closed system and mages are supplied with energy from the information dimension during spellcasting.
What you assume you're observing is a net decrease in entropy, but in truth Tatsuya is accessing a vast wellspring of energy known as the restorative powers of the eidos.
No I agree eidos is basically magical energy and it's used by magicians to manipulate the world.
However for so far as I know eidos are just a tool, like when we use glue to stick things together. But what you are saying is that his restored arm is basically formed from eidos completely? Which shouldn't be possible since that requires constant use of magic to uphold.
Unless of course Tatsuya manipulates eidos as some sort of clay and makes the change permanent when others can't...
Ugh this is starting to confuse me.

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Originally Posted by Echizen777 View Post
Magic is not manipulation of physics. It's reality warping with various duration, Tatsuya already explained how magic fools the laws of physics. It is better explained in the newly translated background of volume 5

Spoiler for Quote:
Hmmm, this would obviously fix any glaring issues with Tatsuya's regrowth, like the constant supply of magic. But doesn't it still need the actual particles to form the arm?
For example in the case of Miyuki if you stuff her in a true vacuum she doesn't have anything to manipulate thus nothing can be formed. In the case of Tatsuya's arm doesn't he still needs the components that formed his arm to restore it?
Ergo he has to manipulate molecules and atoms to reform his arm, right?

Or are you saying that psion information bodies are magical clay that take on the required information and morph into whatever is required to form an arm?
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Old 2014-07-08, 06:56   Link #339
Echizen777
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Originally Posted by mrSh4dy View Post
Hmmm, this would obviously fix any glaring issues with Tatsuya's regrowth, like the constant supply of magic. But doesn't it still need the actual particles to form the arm?
For example in the case of Miyuki if you stuff her in a true vacuum she doesn't have anything to manipulate thus nothing can be formed. In the case of Tatsuya's arm doesn't he still needs the components that formed his arm to restore it?
Ergo he has to manipulate molecules and atoms to reform his arm, right?

Or are you saying that psion information bodies are magical clay that take on the required information and morph into whatever is required to form an arm?
Tatsuya's Regrowth is more of a superpower. I don't understand what you say by vacuum, it doesn't matter where she is because magic is used by linking to the Information Dimension and in the information dimension, the Eidos of everything are printed there. Eidos is an information body so as long as you exist in the material world you have Eidos, even non living things have Eidos.

The details about Regrowth were explained in details in Volume 7 by Miyuki

Spoiler for Miyuki-sensei:


The conventional rules of magic don't apply here.
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Old 2014-07-08, 07:12   Link #340
amtro
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No I agree eidos is basically magical energy and it's used by magicians to manipulate the world.
However for so far as I know eidos are just a tool, like when we use glue to stick things together. But what you are saying is that his restored arm is basically formed from eidos completely? Which shouldn't be possible since that requires constant use of magic to uphold.
Unless of course Tatsuya manipulates eidos as some sort of clay and makes the change permanent when others can't...
Ugh this is starting to confuse me.



Hmmm, this would obviously fix any glaring issues with Tatsuya's regrowth, like the constant supply of magic. But doesn't it still need the actual particles to form the arm?
For example in the case of Miyuki if you stuff her in a true vacuum she doesn't have anything to manipulate thus nothing can be formed. In the case of Tatsuya's arm doesn't he still needs the components that formed his arm to restore it?
Ergo he has to manipulate molecules and atoms to reform his arm, right?

Or are you saying that psion information bodies are magical clay that take on the required information and morph into whatever is required to form an arm?
The Eidos is not magical energy. The eidos are the information structures of all things in mahouka, if you control the Eidos then you control everything. This is why Tatsuya's abilities are so damn potent, because he can make the Eidos do what he wants it to (within the scope of his BS abilities) without having to suffer from the reversion power that everyone else has to deal with.
If Tatsuya cannot reverse energy into matter then he can simply draw it from the restorative powers of the eidos.
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