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Old 2014-05-23, 03:24   Link #101
Marcus H.
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No. Answer me. How far have you even gotten into the story? I'm assuming you've read up to volume 12 at least?
I've been fast-reading parts of the entire light novel series because it's frustrating to find yourself unable to speak your mind properly unless you've exposed yourself to the series in question. My opinion still stands.

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What exactly don't you like about this story? Aside from Tatsuya?
I've already built a bulleted list a few posts before. Just look it up.
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Old 2014-05-23, 03:28   Link #102
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I've been fast-reading parts of the entire light novel series because it's frustrating to find yourself unable to speak your mind properly unless you've exposed yourself to the series in question. My opinion still stands.



I've already built a bulleted list a few posts before. Just look it up.
^ you know there is always a solution drop it if you are force to read it simple as that

As for the 1st I'm fast reader too but I usually read it few times so I can understand it completely oh well nvm it >_> coz you hate op mc and novel itself <_<

This will my final post here unless we change the topic that's all because its hard argue with you no offense because you don't have open mind to read and understand the ln itself and characters cya :3
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Old 2014-05-23, 03:40   Link #103
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Listing them down, including issues with the universe:
• Politics contributes to less direct approaches in combat, sometimes resulting in unbelievable periods of peace between enemy factions
Of your reasons for disliking Tatsuya, I really don’t understand this one. First of all, in what way is Tatsuya personally responsible for every instance of politics being used over combat? And secondly, how are the periods of peace between enemy factions “unbelievable”? Even during all out war, there are periods of truce or of waiting to see what the other will do next - and in Mahouka, no one is even waging open war (except maybe the GAA against Japan, sort of). Do you want fights to be what settles everything?

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• Team fights are still centered on Tatsuya's skills
And I completely disagree with this one. There haven’t been all that many team fights, but in the ones we have been shown, everyone’s skills were put to use. And yes, that includes Tatsuya’s skills, but then the meaning of “team fighting” is for the entire team to contribute. Could you give an example of what you are talking about?

Because Blanche? Not team fighting since the groups split up. Monolith Code? If anything, Mikihiko was MVP of most of their matches. Yokohama? Tatsuya wasn’t with his friends most of the time. The fight against parasite-infected Mina? Katsuto was contributing just as much and it was the Mizuki/Mikihiko combo that turned the tide. The last fight against the parasites? That was a nice use of Mikihiko’s abilities in order to allow Miyuki to decimate the opponents.

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Originally Posted by Lucarion View Post
3) Tatsuya's the most powerful character around because he put in all his effort place himself in that position, and he's hell bent on staying there. Tatsuya is terrified of another Okinawa incident, his time in Volume 8 was the clumsiest Tatsuya we've ever seen since he was still working on some of his abilities at that point, and when he lost Honami and especially when he almost lost Miyuki, just the idea of loss nearly drove him mad. He doesn't want that to happen, and there are hints in the novels that he isn't exactly satisfied with his powers and he's beginning to question his own existence. This means he can still grow. And this, now begs the question: "just how much more powerful is he going to get?" This, I think is fascinating direction for his character growth.
Tatsuya and Miyuki in Reminiscence are so adorably awkward that it should probably be illegal.

Agreed on your last point. Besides which, having Tatsuya start out so strong also means that the author has to be creative in the ways he can develop Tatsuya’s powers. He can’t really go up at this point, so he has to develop sideways as it were. Any growth in powers will be outside the conventional system. For example, I found it really fun to watch Tatsuya come up with Far strike since he had to find a different way of using his powers rather than simply increasing the attack power of the skills he already has.


It’s interesting how one of the most controversial points of Mahouka is its very strong, even OP main character. It’s not like this is all that rare in literature, legends or heck, even manga/anime. While I understand the appeal of the underdog and how interesting it can be to watch a weak or normal character grow into something stronger and better, I don’t see why this precludes the possibility of having main characters that are strong from the get-go. If nothing else, I find it refreshing to have a series in which a character struggles with something other than “getting stronger” or “having their worth recognised”.

Actually, scratch that, I adore the way Tatsuya turns that last one on its head: the series starts with a fairly typical set-up in which the main character is unjustly scorned by those who place themselves above him, then veers wildly off the beaten track when it is revealed that Tatsuya simply doesn’t care. His attitude is kind of glorious. Not that recognition isn’t in play for Tatsuya, but it isn’t the kind of recognition that the system he lives in can give. In Mahouka, magicians are really only recognised for one thing: strength and ability in wielding “conventional” magic. The recognition Tatsuya is working towards is the recognition of magicians’ worth as human beings and the recognition of magic as a force that can contribute more to society than just military clout. Instead of working to be acknowledged by the system and maybe changing it for the better from the inside – as many protagonists, especially, especially in shounen manga/anime/LN, do – he is working to change the system from the outside. In order to do that, in order to even consider doing that, he kind of has to be an extraordinary individual.

Would I want every story I read to feature a main character like Tatsuya? No, not really. But by the same token, I don’t want every story I read to follow the pig-farmer-becomes-king formula (and this from someone who loves the Chronicles of Prydain) or the underdog-fights-his-way-to-the-top one. There are other stories out there to tell and Mahouka is one of them.
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Old 2014-05-23, 03:42   Link #104
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All Echizen is trying to say is that Tatsuya's not the only character people read the story for. Heck, I came here for Miyuki
You're right.
I hate Miyuki and I don't like Tatsuya.

I came here for Maya, Koichi, Yotsuba and the Politics.
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Old 2014-05-23, 03:47   Link #105
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Change of topic: Do you thio act ank tatsuya will break the third unsolvable problem of the 3 great problem in mahouka?
Since, it seems to be related to Tatsuya's plan to improve the treatment of magicians.

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Do you think Japanese government and 10mc will search the true identity of mahesvara?
I think the Japanese government already knows that he is someone involved with the Yotsuba and lent to the military to act as the Nations Secret Strategic Weapon.

The 10MC might try to investigate him though..

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If tatsuya's mahesvara persona discover by 10mc what do you think happen especially this 4 mayumi, koichi, masaki and juumonji found out will they experiment him or take him and sister away from yotsuba?
A full blown out war between each of them in order to improve their position and power.

Regarding the 4 you mentioned ... I think they will be put into a quite difficult position ... since they would probably forced to deal with some drastic decisions ... if they would want to keep the current status between each of the Ten Master Clans.

I doubt though that they will be capable of experimenting or taking away Tatsuya or Miyuki from the Yotsuba ... since the Yotsuba clan members aren't fools (especially Maya) and they are aware of how much worth the Shiba siblings have and they will do everything they can, to keep them within the clan.

Although, personally I doubt that the 10MC will be capable of fully connecting Mahesvara with Shiba Tatsuya .... since the Yotsuba are pretty good in information manipulation as well as a few other shady operations that deal with information control.
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Old 2014-05-23, 03:49   Link #106
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Mahouka isn't a story you can fast read like that, you need to reread some parts. There are too much details.

I think the biggest problem is that non readers think that Tatsuya is the only OP character and that we are reading the story just for him, like in typical stories with invincible heroes. With he way Tsutomu created the magic system and how his power work.It makes perfect sense that he is that strong. Not like your random gifted protagonist who is among the strongest with little training.
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Old 2014-05-23, 03:49   Link #107
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I only come due mostly favorite character Azusa :3

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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Since, it seems to be related to Tatsuya's plan to improve the treatment of magicians.



I think the Japanese government already knows that he is someone involved with the Yotsuba and lent to the military to act as the Nations Secret Strategic Weapon.

The 10MC might try to investigate him though..



A full blown out war between each of them in order to improve their position and power.

Regarding the 4 you mentioned ... I think they will be put into a quite difficult position ... since they would probably forced to deal with some drastic decisions ... if they would want to keep the current status between each of the Ten Master Clans.

I doubt though that they will be capable of experimenting or taking away Tatsuya or Miyuki from the Yotsuba ... since the Yotsuba clan members aren't fools (especially Maya) and they are aware of how much worth the Shiba siblings have and they will do everything they can, to keep them within the clan.

Although, personally I doubt that the 10MC will be capable of fully connecting Mahesvara with Shiba Tatsuya .... since the Yotsuba are pretty good in information manipulation as well as a few other shady operations that deal with information control.
I agree in all of it

Now speaking of mahesvara it will be funny if both mahesvara and mr silver is reveal to be tatsuya

All course 1 students/1st high staffs will be shocked by it this include the 8 other school

This will break hattori and morisaki spirit in having a rematch
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:00   Link #108
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Tatsuya and Miyuki in Reminiscence are so adorably awkward that it should probably be illegal.

Agreed on your last point. Besides which, having Tatsuya start out so strong also means that the author has to be creative in the ways he can develop Tatsuya’s powers. He can’t really go up at this point, so he has to develop sideways as it were. Any growth in powers will be outside the conventional system. For example, I found it really fun to watch Tatsuya come up with Far strike since he had to find a different way of using his powers rather than simply increasing the attack power of the skills he already has.


It’s interesting how one of the most controversial points of Mahouka is its very strong, even OP main character. It’s not like this is all that rare in literature, legends or heck, even manga/anime. While I understand the appeal of the underdog and how interesting it can be to watch a weak or normal character grow into something stronger and better, I don’t see why this precludes the possibility of having main characters that are strong from the get-go. If nothing else, I find it refreshing to have a series in which a character struggles with something other than “getting stronger” or “having their worth recognised”.

Actually, scratch that, I adore the way Tatsuya turns that last one on its head: the series starts with a fairly typical set-up in which the main character is unjustly scorned by those who place themselves above him, then veers wildly off the beaten track when it is revealed that Tatsuya simply doesn’t care. His attitude is kind of glorious. Not that recognition isn’t in play for Tatsuya, but it isn’t the kind of recognition that the system he lives in can give. In Mahouka, magicians are really only recognised for one thing: strength and ability in wielding “conventional” magic. The recognition Tatsuya is working towards is the recognition of magicians’ worth as human beings and the recognition of magic as a force that can contribute more to society than just military clout. Instead of working to be acknowledged by the system and maybe changing it for the better from the inside – as many protagonists, especially, especially in shounen manga/anime/LN, do – he is working to change the system from the outside. In order to do that, in order to even consider doing that, he kind of has to be an extraordinary individual.

Would I want every story I read to feature a main character like Tatsuya? No, not really. But by the same token, I don’t want every story I read to follow the pig-farmer-becomes-king formula (and this from someone who loves the Chronicles of Prydain) or the underdog-fights-his-way-to-the-top one. There are other stories out there to tell and Mahouka is one of them.

Wonderfully put. ^_^


And exactly! That's what's so good about this. Mahouka proves that stories don't just have to be arranged or constructed in a particular way. And that there's more to growth than just getting "stronger". I also like that it used ideas that would otherwise have been a recipe for disaster and turned it into something interesting. Writing an OP character is tough and people are usually advised not to do it--but Mahouka pulled it off and showed that there's nothing wrong with writing a character like Tatsuya and that he can still be genuinely interesting provided that you do it right. And Mahouka did it right by asking the right questions and portraying his powers in the proper perspective. And this was probably done because from the get-go the author knew he was going to have a ridiculously powerful character and he worked on ways to still make him one of the most interesting characters in the series. That takes work and cleverness. He discussed ideas I never thought I'd see in an LN, and made use of references I usually don't see too often see these days (like the heavy references to Hindu mythology, hardly anyone uses Hindu myth for inspiration--most people go with Greek or Norse). And I appreciate that. Because what am I if not a friend to new ideas and methods of execution?

Last edited by Lucarion; 2014-05-23 at 04:18.
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:03   Link #109
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how are the periods of peace between enemy factions “unbelievable”? Even during all out war, there are periods of truce or of waiting to see what the other will do next - and in Mahouka, no one is even waging open war (except maybe the GAA against Japan, sort of). Do you want fights to be what settles everything?
Personally, yes, but I'm probably too used to the high-speed politics in Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon that seeing the politics in Mahouka go at this glacial pace was something uncomfortable. I was expecting more blood to be shed behind the scenes while the powers-that-be maintain this false notion of peace.

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And I completely disagree with this one. There haven’t been all that many team fights, but in the ones we have been shown, everyone’s skills were put to use. And yes, that includes Tatsuya’s skills, but then the meaning of “team fighting” is for the entire team to contribute. Could you give an example of what you are talking about?
You gave examples that didn't count all of the characters of the main cast. What happened to the so-called Blooms? Are they just all talk?

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I think the biggest problem is that non readers think that Tatsuya is the only OP character and that we are reading the story just for him, like in typical stories with invincible heroes. With he way Tsutomu created the magic system and how his power work.It makes perfect sense that he is that strong. Not like your random gifted protagonist who is among the strongest with little training.
I would have been hooked with the anime if the first arc wasn't an embarrassment. I mean, those Blooms should be the elites, right? And one of those suffered a one-shot defeat from Tatsuya. There should have been a longer fight between that elitist Bloom instead. And the Blanches weren't even a threat to begin with. What gives? Does the author really know how to make decent opponents or were those an afterthought during the latter part of the story?
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:09   Link #110
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Originally Posted by kusabireika View Post
Change of topic: Do you think tatsuya will break the third unsolvable problem of the 3 great problem in mahouka?

Do you think Japanese government and 10mc will search the true identity of mahesvara?

If tatsuya's mahesvara persona discover by 10mc what do you think happen especially this 4 mayumi, koichi, masaki and juumonji found out will they experiment him or take him and sister away from yotsuba?
1) Yes. It's the one thing he has openly stated to be his dream, it is the goal he is striving to achieve. The only way I can see him failing to complete it is if he were to die (and even then, his research notes would probably be what allows those who come after him to finally crack the problem). But honestly, I don't see Mahouka as the kind of story in which the protagonist dies at the end. I think the main question will be whether he finds it alone or with the help of others.

2) Yes, assuming they know he exists. They would be incredibly stupid not to. But how many people among the 10MC and in the Japanese government actually believe in "Mahesvara"? I know that volume 13 brought home to the Kudou & associated clans that he really does exist, but is that knowledge something that the other clans will have access to? The spoilers for vol.13 weren't very clear on how many people actually got to witness his fight against the Parasite Dolls.

3) Er, how would they even be able to take Tatsuya and Miyuki away for experimentation? Neither of them is exactly weak or particularly likely to fall into a trap. And if they somehow did succeed, the Yotsuba would probably wipe out the clan responsable (This is assuming that they don't also know that Miyuki and Tatsuya are connected to the Yotsuba - because if they attempted to kidnap them knowing that, it could only mean they have a death wish.)

I'm actually not sure that just knowing that Tatsuya is Mahesvara would have all that much of an effect on how Mayumi and Katsuto view Tatsuya. They already respect him and know that he is powerful, they know he can be dangerous, and Mayumi at least knows he is in the army. I imagine that fear and dread, maybe horror at the number of people he has killed, would be among their first reactions to the revelation, but ultimately, unless he goes on a rampage in front of them, I don't see it fundamentally changing their relationship with him.

As for Kouichi, we don't really know enough about him or about his plans to be able to say. And this is why we needs more Kouichi.

Now if people find out that he is Mahesvara and connected to the Yotsuba... Yeah, that would have an effect.

Last edited by renuac; 2014-05-23 at 04:38.
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:23   Link #111
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You gave examples that didn't count all of the characters of the main cast. What happened to the so-called Blooms? Are they just all talk?
Did you read Yokohama? Tatsuya, Mayumi, Mari beat Lu Gonghu and he was not just a support. Mari and Mayumi were the attackers, they helped in the war as well and Mayumi was the one who finished him. Katsuto was like an army, he just stomped his opponent, it's funny that it was noted that he wore an armor because he could have done the same thing even naked.
Masaki was one shotting machine and humans with Rupture until they used illusions. Then he melt his attackers. Miyuki was fighting with Leo, Mikihiko, Erika as well. Hanzo, Sawaki, Kanon, Kirihara etc. They fought in Yokohama too.


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I would have been hooked with the anime if the first arc wasn't an embarrassment. I mean, those Blooms should be the elites, right? And one of those suffered a one-shot defeat from Tatsuya. There should have been a longer fight between that elitist Bloom instead. And the Blanches weren't even a threat to begin with. What gives? Does the author really know how to make decent opponents or were those an during the latter part of the story?
Hanzo was in the top 5 before the Shiba siblings arrival. The top 3 were Mayumi, Mari and Katsuto. Mayumi and Katsuto are direct descendant of the 10MC clan and Mari's weapon mastery and speciality in combat make her able to keep up with them.

Those 3 are way, way,way stronger than Hanzo. Those 3 and Miyuki would stomp him in a fight, just like Tatsuya. Genes are the main source of talent in Mahouka, Hanzo is talented but compared to the talent of the master clans, he is nothing. You will see the difference between them and the normal magicians in the next animated arc. The first arc is the worst of all.
Blanche is a bunch of weaklings, did you listen to Masaki's comments after the credit?
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:35   Link #112
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Did you read Yokohama?
Like I said, I breezed through the entire novels because I don't really want to pick this up for good. I'm already frustrated at Tatsuya at this point, so imagine how I would feel if I actually got to the novels. That's one pissed off reader and a lot of time wasted.

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Blanche is a bunch of weaklings, did you listen to Masaki's comments after the credit?
They're just manipulated by a bigger faction. I'm well informed of that. That said, I hoped that they actually had the same efficacy as the Taliban. Instead, they looked no less than a bunch of street thugs.
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:36   Link #113
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Personally, yes, but I'm probably too used to the high-speed politics in Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon that seeing the politics in Mahouka go at this glacial pace was something uncomfortable. I was expecting more blood to be shed behind the scenes while the powers-that-be maintain this false notion of peace.
Well I can certainly see why you would be disappointed then, but the problem is more with your expectations of Mahouka than with the story itself. Mahouka isn't a series that revolves around physical fights but a series in which physical fights sometimes happen. Politics and drawn-out conflicts do tend to move at a glacial pace - the fun is watching people try to outmanoeuvre each other



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You gave examples that didn't count all of the characters of the main cast. What happened to the so-called Blooms? Are they just all talk?
I gave examples in which members of the cast are actually involved in team fighting. Not everyone gets caught up in that. Plus, since this is about Tatsuya, I was talking about fights in which he was involved. Again, not everyone in the main cast has fought by his side.

Also, the fact that the student-created Bloom/Weed distinction doesn't really mean all that much in the grand scheme of things is one of the main points of the first arc. so I'm not sure why you want to drag it into this.

But okay, assuming you're talking about the "Blooms" who are among the main cast and not just "Blooms" in general, there was a great Mari-Mayumi tag team during the Yokohama arc that pretty much left Tatsuya in the dust since he wasn't expecting them to jump into that fight so quickly and so enthusiastically. Suzune can paralyse people. Mari and Mayumi are also the ones to eventually take down Lu Gonghu. Katsuto mops up Blanche underlings, decimates the opposition during Monolith Code and leads troops during the Yokohama incident. Tomitsuka apparently saves (female) classmates on a regular basis. Honoka was providing vital support despite not being trained for combat.

And since the Yokohama arc was such a great arc for showcasing everyone fighting (have you read it? You will probably enjoy vol.7 if you havent), while not technically a "Bloom" since he isn't from First High, Masaki is such a force on the battlefield that he doesn't need a team. He leaves his team retching in his wake.

And do you really need examples of Miyuki taking down enemies?


Edit: Beaten to the punch by Echizen777

Last edited by renuac; 2014-05-23 at 08:47.
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:38   Link #114
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And do you really need examples of Miyuki taking down enemies?
Nah, I know her arsenal of freezing spells, down to the Kuroneko-like way of letting her enemies "pray for their lives".
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:48   Link #115
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Well, if you speed read and focus only on Tatsuya you won't appreciate it fully. That's not only about Tatsuya. Japan is a OP magician country and members of the master clans can do almost everything without impunity. If you come with guys trying to beat them relying only on weapons and a petty MI trick they would destroy you. And they were taking all it easy, Kirihara should be grateful Katsuto let him have the spotlight .
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Old 2014-05-23, 04:51   Link #116
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Well, if you speed read and focus only on Tatsuya you won't appreciate it fully. That's not only about Tatsuya. Japan is a OP magician country and members of the master clans can do almost everything without impunity. If you come with guys trying to beat them relying only on weapons and a petty MI trick they would destroy you. And they were taking all it easy, Kirihara should be grateful Katsuto let him have the spotlight .
What about USNA and GAA? And why aren't the other Strategic Magicians doing anything to neutralize this possible threat to the peace situation? Somebody from GAA would have dealt with Tatsuya after nuking part of China, but GAA did nothing. I refuse to believe that the power among magicians is heavily tipped in favor of Japan. That would be totally unfair.
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Old 2014-05-23, 05:02   Link #117
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I do wonder who can win tatsuya vs zhou they are both manipulative ._.
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Old 2014-05-23, 05:14   Link #118
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^Zhou is a bastard without attachments. He is more manipulative than Tatsuya.

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What about USNA and GAA? And why aren't the other Strategic Magicians doing anything to neutralize this possible threat to the peace situation? Somebody from GAA would have dealt with Tatsuya after nuking part of China, but GAA did nothing. I refuse to believe that the power among magicians is heavily tipped in favor of Japan. That would be totally unfair.
I will respond to this on another thread because it would be off topic.
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Old 2014-05-23, 05:18   Link #119
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^Zhou is a bastard without attachments. He is more manipulative than Tatsuya.



I will respond to this on another thread because it would be off topic.
I know

I want to ask can tatsuya beat zhou in a fight, do you think zhou is a bs magician

Do you think tatsuya finally discover who master behind the all the unfortunate event/scene happen to mahouka "refering to the dahan survivor and zhou"
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Old 2014-05-23, 08:19   Link #120
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Akatsuki is a regular human with the power of one of the most powerful vampires shoved into him.
That's the reason why he's much weaker than the other Progenitors.

I also don't understand why people now dislike the typical light novel MC.
Akatsuki was fighting enemies that was weak and he almost couldn't do anything without help to defeat them,and it is always stated that he is the strongest vampire in the world.And wait you are defending a pathetic character (Akatsuki)while hating on an awesome one (Tatsuya)???

I'd rather see a character that is different from other LN MC's that he knows what he is doing,already powerful,great tactician,will kill you if you try to harm his sister,without all the morality crap and long winding speeches.

It seems you are disliking him from the 7 eps of the anime and from browsing the translated LN's,so it seems you are missing many things and it is obvious from your arguments.

Back on topic,when do you think we will see the Tatsuya faction fight again???I loved the Yokohama arc because almost all the characters wasn't useless in the battle.
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