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Old 2014-06-05, 06:11   Link #61
Fwarlord
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
No. She's wiping out the human race to make her army; when you sacrifice EVERYONE to "save the world" you rather defeat the purpose of saving the world... Saving the world is rather pointless if there is no one left after you are done.

Also, as mentioned, an army of free-willed ninjas is A LOT better than an army of Zetsu's. We already seen how they measure up to regular ninjas in this war and they ultimately lost. It's like Jedi's vs storm troopers; Storm troopers might give you better numbers, but a small army of Jedi's will be alot more useful. I mean characters like Naruto, Bee, Sasuke, Madara, the Kage's, and some of the members of Akatsuki, could be classified as weapon's of mass destruction. Your army of mindless clones are not much compared to guys who can blow up a small army with a single chakra bomb. I mean, imagine having Madara armed with the chakra tree with Naruto and the other ninjas acting as direct support... any evil that could get thrown at them would be wiped out.

She'd essentially be better off just coming down and telling them that there is some big nasty evil that will destroy them all, and take pains to unite them, rather than enslave them so that they can form a much less effective army. Heck Tobi rather showed that when faced with a great world ending evil, the clans CAN unite and fight. together. She'd have a more effective army, and she wouldn't have to sacrifice the human race to get it.
Human race is only a small part of the planet, even if that part disappear, the planet will continue to exist just fine. In the history, many species have gone extinct and that gave no negative affect to the planet, so what's so different about human race?

And those "weapon's of mass destructions" you said are just ants in Kaguya's eyes. Were she to fight an enemy she deems worthy, the fact an army of those guys having free will or not is rather insignificant. But like I said, we can't really say anything at this point, since we know nothing about her or her plan, just wait patiently before giving any judgment.
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Old 2014-06-05, 16:02   Link #62
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Soylent Zetsu is people!
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Old 2014-06-05, 16:21   Link #63
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Did it say how long the Zetsu transformation takes? Days? Months? Years? Decades? 'Cause, if it's on the shorter end (or maybe even just hours), the heroes have a really short time limit to beat the Big Bad(s) and free the others from their pods before... *shudder*...
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Old 2014-06-05, 17:10   Link #64
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Human race is only a small part of the planet, even if that part disappear, the planet will continue to exist just fine. In the history, many species have gone extinct and that gave no negative affect to the planet, so what's so different about human race?
Sentience for one. Its a very rare trait that took millions of years to evolve; so rare that there isn't even any certainty that another sentient species will ever appear on this planet again. Shouldn't place so very little value in your fellow man.

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And those "weapon's of mass destructions" you said are just ants in Kaguya's eyes. Were she to fight an enemy she deems worthy, the fact an army of those guys having free will or not is rather insignificant. But like I said, we can't really say anything at this point, since we know nothing about her or her plan, just wait patiently before giving any judgment.
No, Naruto and the rest are FAR better than a bunch of white zetsu's she's trading them for. Its like trading in your Nukes, so that you can have more foot soldiers. Naruto, the Kage's and others would be FAR more useful in a war than a bunch of White Zetsu's. You call them ants, but the white zetu's are are ants to them; she's replacing the ants, with microbes. If she has some kind of enemy to use this army against, she's actually making it HARDER to win by watering down her most powerful assets into a bunch of storm troopers. Between a thousand Zetsu's and a guy who can blow up said army with a chakra bomb, I'll go with the chakra bomb guy... and man, that's not even counting the Edo tensei's; those guys are not only WMD's, but they are also virtually immortal.

Come to think of it, why does she even need to abduct people to do this? Weren't the white Zetsu's artifical humans that were just grown? Why can't she just grow a fresh army instead of using people? Unless the old zetsu army that obito made was also made from people... in which case I would have to ask how the ninja villages did not notice the thousands of people that would have gone missing to be turn into the army.
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Old 2014-06-05, 18:01   Link #65
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Soylent Zetsu is people!
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Old 2014-06-05, 23:20   Link #66
Fwarlord
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Come to think of it, why does she even need to abduct people to do this? Weren't the white Zetsu's artifical humans that were just grown? Why can't she just grow a fresh army instead of using people? Unless the old zetsu army that obito made was also made from people... in which case I would have to ask how the ninja villages did not notice the thousands of people that would have gone missing to be turn into the army.
I think maybe that's the answer for your question. Those white zetsus Obito created are so weak because he made them without using living humans. After all, they're just some kind of plant, right? If you want a healthy, big plant, you will need to provide it enough nourishment. So a white zetsus created from a kage will obviously far stronger than one just grow in soil.
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Old 2014-06-06, 23:56   Link #67
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Something that made me think when I watched the recent Episode of the anime;

"The Hyuuga are the Leaf's strongest" has been heard several times when we see a Hyuuga in the anime.

Now we have grandma come in, being known for her Byakugan, eye of the Hyuuga. Now, I don't think Kishimoto is that intelligent to have planned for this THAT far ahead (in spite of his "I've already finished the final chapter" bit, which in itself I hope isn't tru because then it's likely a generic ending for any situation) but it is something that could potentially be used to beat us over the head with how broken OP eye powers are.
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Old 2014-06-07, 04:08   Link #68
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Something that made me think when I watched the recent Episode of the anime;

"The Hyuuga are the Leaf's strongest" has been heard several times when we see a Hyuuga in the anime.

Now we have grandma come in, being known for her Byakugan, eye of the Hyuuga. Now, I don't think Kishimoto is that intelligent to have planned for this THAT far ahead (in spite of his "I've already finished the final chapter" bit, which in itself I hope isn't tru because then it's likely a generic ending for any situation) but it is something that could potentially be used to beat us over the head with how broken OP eye powers are.
It does not seem to me that the Byakugan has any power beside vision. So this princess with the byakugan doesn't seem to be particularly strong before she eats the fruit of the god tree. We don't even know what was her personality, because when she ate the fruit it might have altered her personality. Also after she became powerful people probably behaved very differently with her so she might have changed because of that. Surely if the remaining god tree went on a rampage against the whole world because of her then she was blamed for it by the people and that definitely changed her for the worse. So maybe one of her children inherited the rinnegan which is a lesser version of the dotted rinnegan which she had on her forehead and has nothing to do with her original byakugan eyes. And then her other son inherited the byakugan, and later he founded the Hyuuga clan. It makes sense that she had the byakugan, because that way she was the only one who saw the intense chakra in the fruit so she was the one to wish for that power, other people didn't even see it. So we really don't know her, she might have had the personality of Hinata My guess is that she wished for peace and she tought she can bring that using that fruit. It's like the scientists in discovering nuclear energy and thinking that can bring peace and prosperity, but then it's just used for war and more killing and even experiments on humans (Orochimaru). BTW nuclear radiation was discovered by a woman named Marie Curie Even if she didn't have the eyes to see the radiation. But she changed the world.
( then the sage of 6 paths created 9 nuclear weapons and those were later given to the 5 permanent members of the security council of the ninja world )

Still there is the possibility that the other son's byakugan was also infused with the power from the fruit so the eyes know more than just a chakra vision. It would be a nice story element if it turned out that the seal on the forehead of the hyuuga people is to put a severe limitation on them because of an accident in the past where someone awakened some sort of byakugan eye power and used it against others. That would let Hinata or a resurrected Neji (who lost the seal when he died) to awaken his byakugan and do something to help Naruto and Sasuke. Unfortunately both Neji and Hinata were neglected by the plot, so they're now just side chacters. The hope is that Kabuto's case will repeat itself, and someone who didn't get any attention for hundreds of chapters might end up being a major protagonist. Of course the chakra coming from Naruto could help that awakening of the eye which would explain why in the past this was not more common. And Hinata as the next head of the clan should already know the story behind the seal which is a clan secret passed down by the heads of the family
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Old 2014-06-07, 21:53   Link #69
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Just thinking randomly:
U guys remember the Dead Demon Consuming Seal??, well i was thinking that maybe the grim reaper can be the brother of hagoromo, since they kinda look similar and we dont have a clear answer of what happened to him; and based on that maybe Kaguya want an army to fight demons of the other world,or something like that, cause we have seen that humans can interact with them.
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Old 2014-06-09, 22:30   Link #70
Haloid
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Originally Posted by Fwarlord View Post
Human race is only a small part of the planet, even if that part disappear, the planet will continue to exist just fine. In the history, many species have gone extinct and that gave no negative affect to the planet, so what's so different about human race?

And those "weapon's of mass destructions" you said are just ants in Kaguya's eyes. Were she to fight an enemy she deems worthy, the fact an army of those guys having free will or not is rather insignificant. But like I said, we can't really say anything at this point, since we know nothing about her or her plan, just wait patiently before giving any judgment.
You are objectively right. The planet would pretty much move on if humanity were ever destroyed and would likely be better off. Unlike the other species on the planet we really don't contribute anything but we do consume and destroy a lot. However, we are speaking subjectively here and humanity thinks its pretty special and this story is written in that context. So speaking from a subjectively moral context what she is doing is pointless and wrong because they are fighting so that humanity can continue its existence compared to her who wants to destroy humanity and forcefully subjugate them.
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Old 2014-06-10, 12:01   Link #71
itachi-san314
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You are objectively right. The planet would pretty much move on if humanity were ever destroyed and would likely be better off. Unlike the other species on the planet we really don't contribute anything but we do consume and destroy a lot. However, we are speaking subjectively here and humanity thinks its pretty special and this story is written in that context. So speaking from a subjectively moral context what she is doing is pointless and wrong because they are fighting so that humanity can continue its existence compared to her who wants to destroy humanity and forcefully subjugate them.
ah, a self-loathing human. i never understood why some people think every other species of life on earth is natural but we are not for some reason the earth would certainly move on without us, that's not up for debate, but to think earth would be better off and that we haven't contributed anything is quite a hateful and depressing POV. i think the point of life and evolution is the universe becoming self-aware and eventually learning and uniting everything about itself. so far on Earth, only humans have thought beyond the planet and have become self-aware on such a level. to criticize that is to criticize everything imho

are there screwups and bad apples along the way? of course, just look at some of these ninja who represent some of our faults. we don't really know the full story here with kaguya. i doubt what she is doing is pointless as it would seem to be at this point, but i have to wonder if we are going to see some kind of alien power race in the near future of this manga. i don't really see where else this could go but an extra-terrestrial reason for chakra and who she needs an army to fight (or just more past characters before kaguya but that would get pretty lame. the manga's already jumped the shark in regard to digging up old fogies)

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Old 2014-06-10, 23:27   Link #72
Artimus_Prime
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
. i don't really see where else this could go but an extra-terrestrial reason for chakra and who she needs an army to fight (or just more past characters before kaguya but that would get pretty lame. the manga's already jumped the shark in regard to digging up old fogies)
Unless she intends to fight Heaven/fate itself
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Old 2014-06-11, 00:45   Link #73
Haloid
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ah, a self-loathing human. i never understood why some people think every other species of life on earth is natural but we are not for some reason the earth would certainly move on without us, that's not up for debate, but to think earth would be better off and that we haven't contributed anything is quite a hateful and depressing POV. i think the point of life and evolution is the universe becoming self-aware and eventually learning and uniting everything about itself. so far on Earth, only humans have thought beyond the planet and have become self-aware on such a level. to criticize that is to criticize everything imho

are there screwups and bad apples along the way? of course, just look at some of these ninja who represent some of our faults. we don't really know the full story here with kaguya. i doubt what she is doing is pointless as it would seem to be at this point, but i have to wonder if we are going to see some kind of alien power race in the near future of this manga. i don't really see where else this could go but an extra-terrestrial reason for chakra and who she needs an army to fight (or just more past characters before kaguya but that would get pretty lame. the manga's already jumped the shark in regard to digging up old fogies)
Self-loathing? Your point of view seems very naive to me and your response is typical. I never said humans weren't a natural species but name any other species that has inflicted the large scale destruction we have on this planet. I prefer the term realistic. To be honest we're not anything special and there are likely civilizations and other species far more advanced than ours in the cosmos. I'm sorry but human exceptionalism is one theory I don't buy into. People act like some calamity will happen if we go extinct but in reality the earth will move on and would likely be better off. Name one thing we have done for the planet. We have actually done very little that has benefited the planet. It is a depressing notion but a very true one. 90% of the species that have ever lived in this planet are now extinct and humans are not substantially different. Does this mean I hate my own species. No. I love humans as I am one. There is a difference between being realistic about your own species and hating them and I certainly don't believe the humans in this manga deserve to die.
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