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Old 2014-07-04, 09:22   Link #81
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Jagger View Post
Overall I liked it. But it's a bit baffling that the police didn't question him, what were you doing there, what happened, how did the girl get crushed, etc, at the hospital the boy didn't realize he was a ghoul yet so it wouldn't have been difficult to get the truth out of him. The public is clearly aware of ghouls, you'd think they would be able to tell the organ was from a ghoul. The doctor looked kinda suspicious, but that doesn't explain why the police didn't question him whatsoever. Anyway the rest of the story is solid so I'm just going to overlook this.
Question him about what? You make sound as if Kaneki was the perp rather than the victim who nearly just died. Furthermore there is a good chance that the police found the two together with Rize's ghoul state still out. I'm sure pretty anyone could have easily put two and two together about what happened. And you shouldn't assume that police didn't talk to Kano (the doctor) either.

And even if Rize had gone back to a human state before they got there, it still wouldn't change the fact that Kaneki was the victim of an attack of some kind, so being suspicious of him would be a leap in logic. At best they both would have been victims given the circumstances.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2014-07-04 at 09:50.
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Old 2014-07-04, 09:25   Link #82
maplehurry
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Somehow this reminds me of Akiba's trip...
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Old 2014-07-04, 10:09   Link #83
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I thought this episode was really good on all accounts... except the music. The soundtrack was just super cheesetastic and overdone IMHO, kinda ruins the atmosphere for me. Definite keeper for now though, as I need my horror animu.

PS. I'm not familiar with the source at all and checked the show out as I really liked the directors work on Freedom and Kakurenbo.
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Old 2014-07-04, 10:19   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Question him about what? You make sound as if Kaneki was the perp rather than the victim who nearly just died. Furthermore there is a good chance that the police found the two together with Rize's ghoul state still out. I'm sure pretty anyone could have easily put two and two together about what happened. And you shouldn't assume that police didn't talk to Kano (the doctor) either.

And even if Rize had gone back to a human state before they got there, it still wouldn't change the fact that Kaneki was the victim of an attack of some kind, so being suspicious of him would be a leap in logic. At best they both would have been victims given the circumstances.
Moreover we didn't see how first aid was done. Maybe they both go straight in the hands of paramedics and the suspicious doctor, and the police was called after. Two teenagers/adults under a pile of rubble could easily pass as an accident.
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Old 2014-07-04, 10:26   Link #85
Chanthien
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Question him about what? You make sound as if Kaneki was the perp rather than the victim who nearly just died. Furthermore there is a good chance that the police found the two together with Rize's ghoul state still out. I'm sure pretty anyone could have easily put two and two together about what happened. And you shouldn't assume that police didn't talk to Kano (the doctor) either.

And even if Rize had gone back to a human state before they got there, it still wouldn't change the fact that Kaneki was the victim of an attack of some kind, so being suspicious of him would be a leap in logic. At best they both would have been victims given the circumstances.
Well, the thing is, and I'm not a follower of the manga here so I might as well be completely wrong, but I don't think this anime/manga is going to put too much focus on the nitty gritty (heh) details and/or serious worldbuilding.

Ghouls being treated not that different from "normal" serial killers by both the authority and the average person? Apparently ghouls and their organs "revert" to human after death and there's no(?) way of checking for this even after all this time of ghouls terrorizing the country? The female ghoul was buried under a pile of rubble, her organs somehow were not destroyed, and nobody question that? The MC was given organs from a complete stranger without consent of kins or any sort of medical tests, is going to miraculously recuperated within a vastly shorter amount of time than any other transplant patients without any signs of rejection, and is then allowed to go back to his life without any followup? A doctor, even one in the know, who is so influential that he can magically make all this happen, despite the existence of other medical staffs who at first object to his ridiculous idea of just randomly transplanting organs? The medical staffs who couldn't care less that a boy was given organs from a stranger and somehow there is no sign of rejection at all?

I'm... not quite sure what my original point was, but my point now is that even if this manga/anime is categorized as "seinen", that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be any more "logical" or "realistic" than other category of anime. So we can point out/fix plot holes all day, or we can sit back and see where they go with it.
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Old 2014-07-04, 11:27   Link #86
Iron Maw
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...Regardless of how realistic things in this show are or not, I think that the doctor cared about saving Kaneki's life above all else as far we know. He was in a extreme critical situation where time was of essence to decide whether they decided spend time running though red tape and risk him dying anytime from now or taking gamble in an action where he might be saved. Kano judged the later option was better despite it's risks because the alternative was certain death. It turned out Kaneki got lucky (at first anyway). Furthermore we don't know anything about ghoul organs to say whether medical staff should have recognize them as belonging to an actual ghoul or not. Maybe he did and had some ulterior motive, anything is possible at this stage.

Furthermore I don't think it was stated how long Kaneki was in the hospital nor is there any proof that Kano didn't setup an follow up appointments. You're making assumptions with very limited info especially when we obvious time lapses occurring between the incident with Rize and Kaneki's discharge.
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Old 2014-07-04, 11:34   Link #87
Jun pls
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Spoiler for No spoiler but manga comparison regarding the hospital thing:
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Old 2014-07-04, 11:41   Link #88
Chanthien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
...Regardless of how realistic things in this show are or not, I think that the doctor cared about saving Kaneki's life above all else as far we know. He was in a extreme critical situation where time was of essence to decide whether they decided spend time running though red tape and risk him dying anytime from now or taking gamble in an action where he might be saved. Kano judged the later option was better despite it's risks because the alternative was certain death. It turned out Kaneki got lucky (at first anyway). Furthermore we don't know anything about ghoul organs to say whether medical staff should have recognize them as belonging to an actual ghoul or not. Maybe he did and had some ulterior motive, anything is possible at this stage.

Furthermore I don't was stated how long Kaneki was on hospital nor is there any proof that Kano didn't setup an follow up appointments. You're making assumptions with very limited info especially when we obvious time lapses occurring between the incident with Rize and Kaneki's discharge.
Well, whether the doctor has an ulterior motive or not, organ transplanting is not exactly the sort of operation you can choose in the heat of the moment, what with all the sort of tests needed just to make sure that the receiver's body is not going to reject the organs immediately. And even if the doctor wants to do so, the rules are there for a reason. No, you can't just "take all responsibility", that sort of justification will never fly in a real world situation. And my point about the ghoul organ was exactly as you said, that we don't know anything about ghoul organ now, and we probably would not get to know any really nitty gritty details (enough to do some inference) even in the future.


The part about Kaneki post-release is my extrapolation, I should have been more clear about that. But I actually don't need to make more than one assumption: namely that the focus of this anime is about Kaneki and his problems/adventures. That alone, I think, is enough to extrapolate all the things I did. Especially since I'm almost certain that there will definitely be no scene of him taking medications to help his immune systems, and/or no one at the hospital (except the doctor who may have ulterior motive) will ever say anything about his impossible immune system/circumstance.

Edit: welp, ninja'd. I guess I was too critical after all, of the manga at the very least. We will see if the anime comes through. I stand by my other "plot holes" and my argument though.
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Old 2014-07-04, 11:46   Link #89
Iron Maw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jun pls View Post
Spoiler for No spoiler but manga comparison regarding the hospital thing:
The anime actually implies some time has past since then since are lot of abrupt cuts thought out the hospital scene until Kaneki leaves. Not to mention a lot of Hide's constant visits.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2014-07-04 at 12:10.
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Old 2014-07-04, 11:53   Link #90
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Hide such a good friend.
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Old 2014-07-04, 12:05   Link #91
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Chanthien View Post
Well, whether the doctor has an ulterior motive or not, organ transplanting is not exactly the sort of operation you can choose in the heat of the moment, what with all the sort of tests needed just to make sure that the receiver's body is not going to reject the organs immediately. And even if the doctor wants to do so, the rules are there for a reason. No, you can't just "take all responsibility", that sort of justification will never fly in a real world situation. And my point about the ghoul organ was exactly as you said, that we don't know anything about ghoul organ now, and we probably would not get to know any really nitty gritty details (enough to do some inference) even in the future.
The point is that situation isn't normal to begin with and it's doctor call on what best action to take given the circumstances. Furthermore this isn't we the real world, nor we do anything about Kano or whether ever influence he holds. And just because rules exist doesn't mean their aren't broken especially in extraneous situations as it happens all the time in RL. Honestly I think you projecting way too much here on the setting here. It's not as if the anime/manga treated this as a normal operating procedure.
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Old 2014-07-04, 13:02   Link #92
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i really liked the last 2 minutes of the ep. The feeling "i am human" is just so passionate, overflow. That tearing black eyes. That "i am human".
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Old 2014-07-04, 13:07   Link #93
Kaoru Chujo
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This show is a plus, for me. I've read a couple of chapters of the manga, and I thought the adaptation was good.

Sure, there are some unlikely bits, like the grab-an-organ-from-anywhere transplant, but that's from the manga, and in any case, it is a strong myth and reasonable as part of a fantasy story about creatures which do not exist in real life.

The gore is fairly unrestrained, but that suits the genre. Good start.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2014-07-04 at 13:19.
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Old 2014-07-04, 18:05   Link #94
com_gwp
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I'm mighty impressed by the premiere. Incredible directing and production values all around, from the animation and camerawork to the gothic artstyle and music. I guess that's what you can expect from a director who was previously nominated for an academy award, though Studio Pierrot's finest are putting in a mighty effort as well.

I'm not discounting the actual story which itself holds quite some potential, but it's definitely the execution of the show that's making this a keeper at the moment.

Last edited by com_gwp; 2014-07-04 at 19:28.
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Old 2014-07-04, 21:12   Link #95
Master_Yoma
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Only Soylent Green will do for a meal

This is going to get creepy
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Old 2014-07-04, 23:22   Link #96
jeroz
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Only Soylent Green will do for a meal

This is going to get creepy
pity he doesn't see them as jelly in his new state.
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Old 2014-07-05, 06:59   Link #97
revive4563
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Claymore in the present Tokyo.

btw it's a bit surprising that HanaKana chara died in the first 12 minutes of first episode.
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Old 2014-07-05, 08:03   Link #98
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by revive4563 View Post
Claymore in the present Tokyo.

btw it's a bit surprising that HanaKana chara died in the first 12 minutes of first episode.
Looks like she lives on in the MC anyway.


I wonder how many ghouls a city like Tokyo can support? People will only tolerate so many gutted corpses.

Also, they seem to know a lot about ghouls, so why aren't they being hunted? They don't look that hard to detect. They barely eat any human food.
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Old 2014-07-05, 08:13   Link #99
hamazura
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Looks like she lives on in the MC anyway.


I wonder how many ghouls a city like Tokyo can support? People will only tolerate so many gutted corpses.

Also, they seem to know a lot about ghouls, so why aren't they being hunted? They don't look that hard to detect. They barely eat any human food.
bceause they eat at night obviously....
and why are you assuming they are not hunted?
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Old 2014-07-05, 08:24   Link #100
Anh_Minh
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bceause they eat at night obviously....
My point is that any person who doesn't regularly eat human food is a suspect and should be denounced by classmates, colleagues and such. Same thing if he's a hikkikomori who never goes out - what are nosy neighbors for?

Sure, you'll get some false positives that way. But it'll also make life much harder for ghouls.

And that's before we even get to the way they don't make much effort to cover their tracks.

Quote:
and why are you assuming they are not hunted?
So many of them. We just saw four ghouls in one small area. Brazenly talking about organisations and territories instead of cowering from the fear of discovery.
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