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Old 2003-11-21, 20:23   Link #41
Zeratul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
mind body seems to be a bloodline jutsu (Yamazaki jutsu)
same with multisize and meat tank (chouji)
gates he can copy
puppet jutsu is too specialized. he wouldnt be able to "master" the use of a puppet
Fighting style is too different for Kiba's Techniques

nin is not short for ninja. it is the "person" counter.

1 nin 2 nin 3 nin 4 nin ( hitori futare, sannin yonin....)

mindbody, multi-size and shadowcopy arent bloodline techniques. They are jutsus specific to their family that is passed down by teaching their younger generation. It doesnt come to them automatically. They are family secret jutsus not bloodline.

if he copied puppet style he could just walk into the finals with a puppet and completely surprise the opponent. And since Sasuke's Taijutsu is so advanced he can use Kiba's taijutsu at a level far beyond Kiba can.

Think about it....Sasuke is totally beating up his opponent with Kiba and Lee's moves and puts opponent totally on the defensive. Then suddenly he uses shadow copy or mind switch when opponent least expects giving no chance to counter.

That is totally insane and is an example if what level Itachi is at. If Sasuke had copied them he would already be at jounin level since his taijutsu is already at chunnin - jounin level during the final.
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Old 2003-11-21, 21:01   Link #42
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I don't think the gates are copyable, if they are... thats just dumb, there's nothing you could see that would help you learn to open them, its a mental thing.

I find it entirly likely that Kakashi allready knew how to open the gate, and he took the headband off during that fight so that he could keep up with the action, because he knew lee was about to be moving FAST
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Old 2003-11-21, 21:44   Link #43
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I agree with [bold]Stickels[/bold] about gates being not copyable. it's not stated in the manga it's copyable and furthermore, i remember that the gates is something kakashi already know long before. He did not use sharingan to learn it.
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Old 2003-11-21, 22:51   Link #44
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sasuke would die if he used the multi size no jutsu. he dose not have enough stored calories (fat)

Quote:
i remember that the gates is something kakashi already know long before. He did not use sharingan to learn it.
when was this? he did not need the sharingan to keep up with lee's speed- he could see equally fast people without his sharingan.
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Old 2003-11-21, 22:57   Link #45
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u guys obviously dont pay ateention, Kakashi copied the opening of the 5 gates, after the prelims he was climbing a mountain, and almsot fell to his death, in both the manga nd the anime he opened the first gate and finshed climbing the mountain
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Old 2003-11-21, 23:06   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Dragon Flame
u guys obviously dont pay ateention, Kakashi copied the opening of the 5 gates, after the prelims he was climbing a mountain, and almsot fell to his death, in both the manga nd the anime he opened the first gate and finshed climbing the mountain

you obviously don't pay attention, several of us have said that its very possible that kakashi allready knew how to open the gates.
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Old 2003-11-22, 00:38   Link #47
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u obviously dont pay attention, why would kakashi copy Lee opening the gates if he already knew????
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Old 2003-11-22, 00:52   Link #48
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maybe he wassn't copying it?

lee knows all kinds of tijutsu(sp? maybe even the wrong name for it...), garaa was a completely unkown element, maybe he was looking for something new, maybe he just wanted a better prospective of the fight because it was about to get alot more serious than any of the other fights. Maybe it was just put in as a dramatic affect, there are lots of reasons he could have taken his eye out other than copying the gates.

I can't see how this could possibly be a copyable technique, its a mental thing, there was nothing there you could watch and learn except for the moves he did after he opened the gate.
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Old 2003-11-22, 01:31   Link #49
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you use chakra to unlock the gates, thus making it a copyable jutsu, u see how freaked out kakashi was when he learned lee could open the gates?? thats not the face of a man lookign for somehting other than gates.. he wanted to copy it
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Old 2003-11-22, 01:49   Link #50
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i am pretty sure kakashi used his sharingan to "see" lee's increased chakra, as stated before by kakashi when he watched neji rape hinata: "my sharingan can only see the chakra, but not the pipes".

Opening the gates, increases lee's chakra, so kakashi used his pesky eyes to scan and see how much chakra was being emmited.

oh, and if kakashi can see the gates, he wouldn't be asking gai about wat gates are being open.

in conclusion i am pretty sure gates are not copyable. kakashi probably had the gate ability long ass time ago. (its just advance tai-jutsu, i am pretty sure the good jounins all know how to open a few.)

[as stated b4, kakashi was a genius, and he notified lee as a genius.]

i think tats how it is..
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Old 2003-11-22, 11:44   Link #51
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Gotta say I agree with NaOH on this one. Why would Kakashi try to copy the gates off of Lee, when more than likely, he would have copied them off of Gai a long time ago if he wanted them so vadly? Seriously though, I really doubt the Sharigan gives you the ability to COPY taijutsu. More like the process [I]behind[I] the technique. You'll never convince me that Sasuke just looked at Lee's move and copied it, especially since he hadn't done much physiclal improvement since Lee pwned his ass before the prelims. Rather, I think that Sasuke copied the use of chakra that was required to perform the move, then repeated the physical movements to the best of his knowledge with the same pattern of chakra that Lee used.

Face it, you can't copy taijutsu! If so, Kakashi would know all of Lee's moves, and a helluva lot of Gai's. It has limits, just like any seemingly overpowered technique.
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Old 2003-11-22, 13:54   Link #52
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thats the point, Kakashi does know the Gouken Taijutsu. otherwise he wouldnt have been able to teach it to Sasuke
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Old 2003-11-23, 01:35   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYakoshi
Gotta say I agree with NaOH on this one. Why would Kakashi try to copy the gates off of Lee, when more than likely, he would have copied them off of Gai a long time ago if he wanted them so vadly? Seriously though, I really doubt the Sharigan gives you the ability to COPY taijutsu. More like the process [I]behind[I] the technique. You'll never convince me that Sasuke just looked at Lee's move and copied it, especially since he hadn't done much physiclal improvement since Lee pwned his ass before the prelims. Rather, I think that Sasuke copied the use of chakra that was required to perform the move, then repeated the physical movements to the best of his knowledge with the same pattern of chakra that Lee used.

Face it, you can't copy taijutsu! If so, Kakashi would know all of Lee's moves, and a helluva lot of Gai's. It has limits, just like any seemingly overpowered technique.
First of all, Sharingan can copy Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, and Genjutsu.

Second of all, if you want to be convinced that Sasuke can copy Taijutsu. Then watch the battle between Kakashi and Zabuza again.

Third of all, if you're still not convinced then watch the part where they explain what the Sharingan is. They [I]tell[I] you.

By the way, I agree with you that Kakashi didn't need to copy the gates from Lee. I dont think he copied it from Gai either. He's an EliteJounin( my name!!!) for goodness sake.
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Old 2003-11-23, 11:58   Link #54
TheGreatYakoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EliteJounin
...if you want to be convinced that Sasuke can copy Taijutsu. Then watch the battle between Kakashi and Zabuza again.
Wait, when did Kakashi copy taijutsu in that battle? I don't remember that...I remember there being quite a bit of nin- and genjutsu involved, but not much hand-to-hand.

Quote:
Third of all, if you're still not convinced then watch the part where they explain what the Sharingan is. They tell you.
They actually said the Sharingan allows taijutsu to be copied too? As in, all you have to do is look at it and you can punch through walls, dropkick people in the forehead, then finish them off with a nice Omote Renge? Because as far as I knew, taijutsu would have just a little to do with physical conditioning. Okay then, bud (and that means anyone else who disagrees with this). I'll believe the Sharingan is all-powerful and godly like that when I see Sasuke open a Gate, or Kakashi send someone hurtling to the ground like a missle, or Itachi make a cool Konoha Gouriki Sempuu entrance.

Hey, I'm not trying to hate on the Sharingan, just cut it down to size. I think Itachi himself put it pretty well... "Every man has their weakness." Just thought that would go for techniques too.

Spoiler:
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Old 2003-11-23, 12:28   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYakoshi
Wait, when did Kakashi copy taijutsu in that battle? I don't remember that...I remember there being quite a bit of nin- and genjutsu involved, but not much hand-to-hand.



They actually said the Sharingan allows taijutsu to be copied too? As in, all you have to do is look at it and you can punch through walls, dropkick people in the forehead, then finish them off with a nice Omote Renge? Because as far as I knew, taijutsu would have just a little to do with physical conditioning. Okay then, bud (and that means anyone else who disagrees with this). I'll believe the Sharingan is all-powerful and godly like that when I see Sasuke open a Gate, or Kakashi send someone hurtling to the ground like a missle, or Itachi make a cool Konoha Gouriki Sempuu entrance.

Hey, I'm not trying to hate on the Sharingan, just cut it down to size. I think Itachi himself put it pretty well... "Every man has their weakness." Just thought that would go for techniques too.

Spoiler:
Zabuza gave Kakashi's sharingan usage a bit of abuse, and gave him a run for his money.

The reason (in my opinion) as to why Sasuke is a bit wank at copying stuff with the sharingan, is that he is still an inexperienced ninja. He hasnt bothered to learn much (yes, Ive read the manga) and is looking for an easy way to get strong. He wont be able to use the sharingan properly until he's taught how to, although he did learn a few small tricks with it (watch him fight Orochimaru in the forest, he copies his little dodges, with the same purple haze effect).

Its a little unreasonable to expect a genin novice sharingan user to be able to copy high level ninjitsu right off the bat. Sasuke will need a lot more experience and practise before he can simply 'read' an opponents ninjitsu or genjitsu, which is why I think he hasnt managed to copy anything complicated yet.
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Old 2003-11-23, 14:36   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYakoshi
They actually said the Sharingan allows taijutsu to be copied too?
Yes.

Quote:
As in, all you have to do is look at it and you can punch through walls, dropkick people in the forehead, then finish them off with a nice Omote Renge? Because as far as I knew, taijutsu would have just a little to do with physical conditioning.
Indeed, that's why an advanced Taijutsu specialist is the worst match for a Sharingan's user.
Even if a Sharingan's user can read and copy the movements, his bodies doesn't have the speed to react to TaiJutsu (except if he's as good in taijutsu as his opponent of course).
The sharingan read and copy but the body can't move, the sharingan can't copy the reflexes, the speed or any body's capacities, then the sharingan is useless against a better Taijutsu's user.

This was the situation during the fight with Lee and Sasuke.
Sasuke could see and copied Lee's Taijutsu, but it was useless because he couldn't react at all, thus he was beaten.

Same thing during the first fight of the prelim, Sasuke began the same sequence of Taijutsu which he had copied from Lee, but he couldn't finish it because his body was unable to do this kind of move.

The sharingan isn't perfect, you can't make taijutsu's moves if your body isn't able to support it and you can't make a Ninjutsu if your level of control and your personal amount of chakra aren't sufficient.
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Old 2003-11-23, 17:29   Link #57
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:Hmm: If Sasuke's Sharingan is better then Kakashi's... but because Kakashi is more experienced in using it, doesn't that mean Sasuke's current lvl of Sharingan is inferior? Oh, and didn't Kakashi also say that Neji's bakuygan(sp? the eye thinggy) is far superior compared to Sasuke's Sharingan?

That being said, how come i don't see Neji copy some moves with his incredibly Uber eyes? Neh...i thought Sharingan came from Bakuygan....maybe im wrong...
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Old 2003-11-23, 17:52   Link #58
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The Byakugan doesn't copy moves. The Byakugan is superior to the Sharingan in the way of what it can see. It lets the user see in a 360 degree circle around them, and see for greater distances. Also, it gives a sort of X-ray view of another person's chakra circulatory system.

The Sharingan does none of these things, but can copy moves, and confuse the enemy through hypnotics.
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Old 2003-11-23, 19:58   Link #59
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I always knew that a taijutsu specialist was the worst matchup for a Sharingan user (thus the ass-kicking Sasuke took from Lee; Kishimoto made that pretty clear from the beginning, and constantly reiterates that point, it seems). But it helps when it's explained like that. Use all the Sharingan you want, but if your body can't handle what's copied, it'll do you no good (taijutsu being the hardest thing to perform because you can't just throw chakra at it and pull it off like you could with most ninjutsu and genjutsu).

See, people? Hunter really is a wise old man! (Wonder how old he really is though...)
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Old 2003-11-23, 21:38   Link #60
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See, people? Hunter really is a wise old man! (Wonder how old he really is though...)
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