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Old 2004-05-08, 21:25   Link #41
Lina Inverse
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
-Seagate 200gb 7200 Rpm a.s.t. 8.5ms $135.25
-Seagate 36.7gb 10k Rpm a.s.t. 4.7ms $149
"and if i wanted over kill"
-Seagate 37gb 15k Rpm a.s.t. 3.6ms $267

*question* Whats the difference between SATA, IDE, and SCSI? I have no clue what that stands for.

Still havent decided on what processor chip to use. Once i figure that out than Ill look up Mother Boards.

Video card. Eek3 those M-Fer's are expensive. Oh well . I found this one Crucial RADEON 9800 Pro 128mb. You guys said these things got cheeper right? What the hell were they before if they are $300 now, am i looking at a real good one, or is this site over priced?
I'd take the Seagate HDs, they're very fast and very silent.
The difference between Ide, Scsi and Sata is:
- Ide is the common standard avaiable on every mother board. You have two channels which support 2 devices each. The max speed of a channel is determined by the slower device (so putting HD and CD/Dvd-drive on the same channel is bad)
- For Scsi, you need a Scsi card. Back then, Scsi was generally much faster thatn Ide, but not much anymore. The only reason you would want use them is that you can connect up to 15 devices, and they don't brake out each other. Scsi drives are generally much more expensive.
- Sata is the new standard which should replace Ide. Currently, they're no bit faster than Ide drives and have no other important advantages as well, so you can do without. A good bit more expensive than Ide drives.

For the Cpu, I'd recommend you an Athlon XP 3200+ if you don't need state-of-the-art stuff like the Athlon 64. Pentiums are just way too overpriced

$300 for a 9800 Pro is way too much
Over here, you can get one for only 200 already. Wait, I still have this price comparison site somewhere... here it is: PriceWatch
As you can see, you already can get a 9800 Pro as cheap as $199:
9800 Pro prices
Just take the cheapest one you can get, the 9800 Pros are all identical, regardless if they're from Sapphire, PowerColor or whoever else. They all look like the pic durrem posted.
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Old 2004-05-08, 21:38   Link #42
wnkryo
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Here is the deal with the ATI 9800 pro (XT):

- It cost about $220+ by it self (stand alone).

- The price can get as high as $450+ for the All-In-Wonder ATI 9800 pro (XT), which is basically the same as the stand alone but has alot of other things for those who want to use the graphics card for more than just computer games. The price is actually worth it, but is your need to have the All-In-Wonder just as much worth it?


Another little tidbit: There are 2 version of the 9800, there is a pro version, and a pro XT version. The XT version just means it's alittle bit more better than the regular pro version; but either case, I would recommend you get the XT version, and not cheap out.
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Old 2004-05-08, 21:57   Link #43
Lina Inverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
Another little tidbit: There are 2 version of the 9800, there is a pro version, and a pro XT version. The XT version just means it's alittle bit more better than the regular pro version; but either case, I would recommend you get the XT version, and not cheap out.
I totally disagree there! The XT is only a bit faster than the Pro, not much really. However, while the cheapest Pro is just $199, the cheapest XT is whopping $388 (look here). Nearly the double price for only a little bit more performance is far from justified!
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Old 2004-05-08, 22:51   Link #44
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lina Inverse
I totally disagree there! The XT is only a bit faster than the Pro, not much really. However, while the cheapest Pro is just $199, the cheapest XT is whopping $388 (look here). Nearly the double price for only a little bit more performance is far from justified!

There is a huge difference in performance. 9800 pro comes with a standard 128mb system while the XT comes with a standard 256mb system--double the horse power. There is also some other tweaks in the XT not available in the regular pro version. The price is higher, but it's still definetely worth it.

You can refer to this link to find out more.
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Old 2004-05-08, 23:22   Link #45
Sid_Burn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
OK, well Ive come across enough money to finally start my computer build up. The problem is I dont know what brands I should look for or what type of stuff I should get for my comp.

I am starting from scratch so i want to get everything brand new.

*What type of setup I want.
- 2, 120 gig hdd's
- Atleast 512 mb ram " with the option to make it about 1gig later"
- Atleast 2.8 ghz processor "if its not TOO expensive id like to get a 3.2 ghz"
- very good vid and Sound cards
- good wireless key board and optical mouse " thinking of logitec"
- Option to make it dual monitors in the near future. "a MUST option"
- decent cd burner and dvd player "i dont care to much about these but i do want them"
- Atleast 5 usb ports
- what are good fans?
- A mother board that can do all of thee above
- A case w/ front or top mount usb ports

Dont ask me how much I have / want to spend 'cuz Im just looking for what is the best setup for my needs. Even if i dont have enough Ill just wait till I do to get the proper parts. Top of the line Brands are a must I dont want to have any problems w/ my hardware down the line cuz i bought cheepo parts.

Thanks for any help ^______^. be nice its my b- day
Hmmm... if you want a powerful P.C like mine... I suggest buying this hardware...
>400 watt ATX form factor
>Intel P4 3.06 GHz
>Intel D850EMVR
>Twin sticks of 256 MB PC-1066 RDRAM
>Pioneer 16x DVD ROM
>Plextor 48x24x48 CD-RW
>Samsung 3.5 inch 1.44 mb
>200GB western digital 7200 RPM
>Creative labs SB!live Audigy 2 Platinum
>v.92 Hardware Modem
>22 inch view sonic P220f
>ALL IN WONDER Radeon 9700 pro
>Thrust Master HOTAS Cougar
>Logitech Wingman Rumble Pad
>Klipsch Pro Media 5.1
>Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro
>Intelli Mouse Explorer 3.0

To my Estimation... you will be spending about $3200...
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Old 2004-05-09, 03:56   Link #46
SiL Eighty
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Ok i decided on the Hd's, ill get the Seagates, 200 and the 36.7gb 10k rpm one. I dont really see the need for the 15k rpm one.

Total So far $284.25 *shipping is free for orders $50 up no?*

Still pondering on the 125mb or the 256mb 9800 pro/pro xt

Processor... Canning the 64bit techno. I just wouldnt be able to use it properlyatm so why pay so much for something i cant fully use?oh well. Looking into Intel P4 3.2GHz right now. Found one for $346.
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Old 2004-05-09, 22:17   Link #47
durrem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lina Inverse
Just take the cheapest one you can get, the 9800 Pros are all identical, regardless if they're from Sapphire, PowerColor or whoever else. They all look like the pic durrem posted.
For the most part, although some cards are now shipping with samsung 3.3ns memory, where previously all cards had 2.86ns memory. If you're just going to run at stock speeds it doesn't matter, as they are all clocked the same, but the 2.86 can go faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
There is a huge difference in performance. 9800 pro comes with a standard 128mb system while the XT comes with a standard 256mb system--double the horse power. There is also some other tweaks in the XT not available in the regular pro version. The price is higher, but it's still definetely worth it.

You can refer to this link to find out more.
Well, the 256mb cards are more future proof, as next year games will be able to use the extra memory. Right now most games won't take advantage though. The higher benchmarks are most likely due to the aforementioned core tweaks and a higher core/memory clock speed on the XT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Ok i decided on the Hd's, ill get the Seagates, 200 and the 36.7gb 10k rpm one. I dont really see the need for the 15k rpm one.
Sounds good. I'd be sure to make sure to get some kind of active cooling on those drives. They can get hot and fry your anime. I like the antec cases with a 120mm fan blowing across (pulling in the case of the Sonata) the hard drives. If you use a low rpm fan (like the vantec stealth or a quiet panaflo) it is very quiet, more so than most 80mm intake fans.
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Old 2004-05-10, 11:06   Link #48
Sid_Burn
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Hey Sil 80... if you want a cheap but fast and reliable P.C... well... you could always look for this...
>300-watt ATX form factor - case - $50
>AMD Athlon XP 2000+ - processor - $73
>Asus A7V333 (Award 1007) - motherboard - $100
>512MB PC-2700 DDR SDRAM -memory - $48
>Pioneer 16x DVD-ROM - CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drive - $60
>Samsung 3.5 inch 1.44MB - floppy drive - $8
>80GB Maxtor 7200rpm ATA-133 - hard drive - $80
>Creative Labs SB live! Audigy MP3+ - sound card - $85
>v.92 Hardware Modem - modem - $15
>19 inch NEC FE991SB-BK - monitor - $292
>GeForce4 Ti 4200 - video card - $115
>Logitech Z-540 (4.1) - speakers - $60
>Addtronics - keyboard - $15
>Logitech or Microsoft - USB mouse - $39
Optional Parts :
>Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 - joystick - $45
>Logitech Wingman Rumble pad - gamepad - $23

Total Price : $1108
all parts are available at www.pricewatch.com...

PS. This is the best parts for a "Mid-Range System" P.C...
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Old 2004-05-10, 15:25   Link #49
SiL Eighty
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Ya sid thats kind of a budget comp. Not really looking for that, but maybe someone might be intrested ^__^

Any WHOoo, more questions!!!

Mother boards that suppport 2 dual processors.....
- Can you still run them w/ one processor and add another one later?
- Do the processors have to be the same one?
- How do you configure them and what OS would support dual chips?

Im just wondering about the dual proc. Not really looking into doing that, but might as well know all my options ^_^
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Old 2004-05-10, 15:37   Link #50
Mr_Paper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Ya sid thats kind of a budget comp. Not really looking for that, but maybe someone might be intrested ^__^

Any WHOoo, more questions!!!

Mother boards that suppport 2 dual processors.....
- Can you still run them w/ one processor and add another one later?
- Do the processors have to be the same one?
- How do you configure them and what OS would support dual chips?

Im just wondering about the dual proc. Not really looking into doing that, but might as well know all my options ^_^
For dual processor motherboards you can run them with only one processor, if I remember correctly, then add the second later. Yes, both processors need to be the same and there is no way around this. If you overclock one CPU, then the other must be overclocked to the same degree.

As for OS choices... There are a couple builds of Unix/Linux systems that support dual processors and Microsoft claims that XP Pro(I've varified this one) and NT/2000(I've never seen in on a dual CPU system) all work with dual processors and HT technology.
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Old 2004-05-10, 20:20   Link #51
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
For dual processor motherboards you can run them with only one processor, if I remember correctly, then add the second later. Yes, both processors need to be the same and there is no way around this. If you overclock one CPU, then the other must be overclocked to the same degree.

As for OS choices... There are a couple builds of Unix/Linux systems that support dual processors and Microsoft claims that XP Pro(I've varified this one) and NT/2000(I've never seen in on a dual CPU system) all work with dual processors and HT technology.
How exactly does the dual processor setup work? I mean 1 processors is suppose to be incharge so what happens when you add another one? Do both processors split the task when doing something or what?

If what you say is true about the Dual processor Mother Boards being able to run w/ 1 processor, than I will actually consider getting one *so i can add on another chip in the future*, but I just need to know a lil more on how that works. If it falls into the realm of the 64bit AMD's than I wont bother with it.
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Old 2004-05-11, 01:21   Link #52
Mr_Paper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
How exactly does the dual processor setup work? I mean 1 processors is suppose to be incharge so what happens when you add another one? Do both processors split the task when doing something or what?

If what you say is true about the Dual processor Mother Boards being able to run w/ 1 processor, than I will actually consider getting one *so i can add on another chip in the future*, but I just need to know a lil more on how that works. If it falls into the realm of the 64bit AMD's than I wont bother with it.
In a dual processor setup, much like in a single processor setup, all computational tasks are handled as threads. In the single processor setup the one processor must handle all the threads on it's own. With two processors the threads are split between the processors. Although you might think this would make your computer faster, it usually dosn't unless you are running CPU intensive multi-threading programs (CAD, 3DSMax, Video Editing software, etc..).

Furthermore, with two processors, one processor(the primary, CPU1) will always have a slightly higher load than the second processor and wear out faster. More so, the ability to handle multiple threads in a dual setup wont show any befinits unless you basically double the RAM in the computer. Multiple processors are costly to maintain and as far as personal computing is concerned, pretty useless. Unless you're going to take up computer aided design on your home PC, there is no real need for dual processors. The more realistic option is a Intel processor with Hyper-Threading technology. It's one processor, your system sees and uses it as two, plus it has most of the benifits of the dual setup and is overall significantly cheaper.
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Old 2004-05-11, 01:50   Link #53
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
In a dual processor setup, much like in a single processor setup, all computational tasks are handled as threads. In the single processor setup the one processor must handle all the threads on it's own. With two processors the threads are split between the processors. Although you might think this would make your computer faster, it usually dosn't unless you are running CPU intensive multi-threading programs (CAD, 3DSMax, Video Editing software, etc..).

Furthermore, with two processors, one processor(the primary, CPU1) will always have a slightly higher load than the second processor and wear out faster. More so, the ability to handle multiple threads in a dual setup wont show any befinits unless you basically double the RAM in the computer. Multiple processors are costly to maintain and as far as personal computing is concerned, pretty useless. Unless you're going to take up computer aided design on your home PC, there is no real need for dual processors. The more realistic option is a Intel processor with Hyper-Threading technology. It's one processor, your system sees and uses it as two, plus it has most of the benifits of the dual setup and is overall significantly cheaper.
Wooo good info, I'll take that advice ^__^. Im looking at those Pen4's now and the motherboards that work w/ them. Gunna order my HD's as soon as I decide on a Processor and Mother Board.
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Old 2004-05-11, 11:37   Link #54
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepersonwhocallsmemaster???
>Intel D850EMVR
never ever ever ever get an intel Mobo. ever.

Quote:
the XT comes with a standard 256mb system--double the horse power
that doesnt mean it has double the horsepower, it means it has double the on-card storage capacity. double the horse power would be doubling the hertz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sileighty
Ok i decided on the Hd's, ill get the Seagates, 200 and the 36.7gb 10k rpm one. I dont really see the need for the 15k rpm one.
*rolling on the floor in pain*

shoulda gotten a 250gig from frys for ~130, wait for the sale!

no arguments about the 10k drive though.

About dual proc boards- pain in the ass. most tech support/service repair people/tech junkies done see many of these boards, so you will be hard pressed to find someone who knows what is going on about your computer...

my input

<end transmission>
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Old 2004-05-11, 12:04   Link #55
SiL Eighty
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Ok Im puting alot of thought into getting this processor Pen 4 . Any thoughts on it? Also what motherboard would go w/ it. I dont want one w/ a built in sound card. *Cooling system questions coming soon at work right now >__<*
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Old 2004-05-11, 21:19   Link #56
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Ok Im puting alot of thought into getting this processor Pen 4 . Any thoughts on it? Also what motherboard would go w/ it. I dont want one w/ a built in sound card. *Cooling system questions coming soon at work right now >__<*
personally i wouldnt get the best computer available now.

prescott is just evolving, Longhorn has yet to come out, so i think a 2.8 would be more practical... ... but for the moment, hell yeah! that is just about my processor of choice!
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Old 2004-05-12, 05:52   Link #57
Sid_Burn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mymaster
never ever ever ever get an intel Mobo. ever.
why not!?... it performs well... and can handle... the latest memory available today... but its pricey though... that's why my other P.C... well... powerful...
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Old 2004-05-12, 10:53   Link #58
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid_Burn
why not!?... it performs well... and can handle... the latest memory available today... but its pricey though... that's why my other P.C... well... powerful...
it will not allow you to overclock your computer. multiplier (well.. the chips are multiplier locked) and FSB locked.

if you are not looking for OC capability, or just really dont want to OC your computer, then an Intel mobo is sufficient.
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Old 2004-05-12, 14:40   Link #59
wnkryo
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If your going to get a computer for games, then get get an AMD for sure (preferrably the 64bit fx processor). Other wise, a pentium 4 is just as good for any thing else.
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Old 2004-05-12, 15:24   Link #60
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
If your going to get a computer for games, then get get an AMD for sure (preferrably the 64bit fx processor). Other wise, a pentium 4 is just as good for any thing else.
I still may consider the 64bit since it can still run very nice in a 32 bit environment *so what i heard*, but in a 64 bit environment 32 bit programs dont run so great, and to top it off there isnt much stuff out for 64 bit technology. Still may consider though since these chips will kick ass once the 64 bit stuff comes out.

Im still going back and forth between stuff. Not going to buy anything, since i dont have enough for a mobo and processor *i want to get those both at the same time*. Things I have decided on are the 256 Mb ATI Radeon 9800 PRO XT *ya its expensive but... Bah MIGHT AS WELL!!*, The Seagate HD's. Im actually thinking about a 3rd one too. A 10k rpm 80 GB Seagate Barracuda for installing all my programs. So i would have a 36.7 for the OS a 80 for my programs and a 200 for everything else. Problem is.... I have to find a case thats going to hold all that crap lol..... *still need room for CD Burner / DVD player.

OK question about cooling systems. Apparently these new Chips run pretty HOT. Especially those higher end 64 bit AMD's. What kind of cooling system should I be looking into puting in this bad boy? *pics help alot especially when they are installed in the case* Some one said something about customized heat sinks and a water cooled system. More info please ^____^
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