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Old 2004-05-12, 15:42   Link #61
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
I have to find a case thats going to hold all that crap lol..... *still need room for CD Burner / DVD player.

OK question about cooling systems. Apparently these new Chips run pretty HOT. Especially those higher end 64 bit AMD's. What kind of cooling system should I be looking into puting in this bad boy? *pics help alot especially when they are installed in the case* Some one said something about customized heat sinks and a water cooled system. More info please ^____^
case: build your own lol. all you really need is the measurements/PSU... any case with a PSU of over 450W will be more than fine for you (you seem to have many drives... ...)


A64? i still dont care for it. no support for the 64 really.


cooling system... ... ... crap. i dont know where to get these, but you can build your own for about 200$. (everything included)

http://www.dangerden.com/ seems very reputable. dont know of their customer support, but their products are supposed to kick ass.

the fan that comes with most P4s are more than sufficient... but you may want to cool these suckers down... ... so a water cooling system looks most practical. Phase change systems seem very hard to customize.
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Old 2004-05-12, 16:07   Link #62
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
I still may consider the 64bit since it can still run very nice in a 32 bit environment *so what i heard*, but in a 64 bit environment 32 bit programs dont run so great, and to top it off there isnt much stuff out for 64 bit technology. Still may consider though since these chips will kick ass once the 64 bit stuff comes out.

Im still going back and forth between stuff. Not going to buy anything, since i dont have enough for a mobo and processor *i want to get those both at the same time*. Things I have decided on are the 256 Mb ATI Radeon 9800 PRO XT *ya its expensive but... Bah MIGHT AS WELL!!*, The Seagate HD's. Im actually thinking about a 3rd one too. A 10k rpm 80 GB Seagate Barracuda for installing all my programs. So i would have a 36.7 for the OS a 80 for my programs and a 200 for everything else. Problem is.... I have to find a case thats going to hold all that crap lol..... *still need room for CD Burner / DVD player.

OK question about cooling systems. Apparently these new Chips run pretty HOT. Especially those higher end 64 bit AMD's. What kind of cooling system should I be looking into puting in this bad boy? *pics help alot especially when they are installed in the case* Some one said something about customized heat sinks and a water cooled system. More info please ^____^

Wah... did you win the lottery or some thing
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Old 2004-05-12, 17:55   Link #63
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
Wah... did you win the lottery or some thing
finally balanced his taxes and figured out he was ahead by a few thousand bucks?
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Old 2004-05-12, 18:48   Link #64
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
finally balanced his taxes and figured out he was ahead by a few thousand bucks?
NO hehe I dont plan on having this computer fully put together till by mid summer i think. Full time job plus no real expences = i got dough to throw around. Its going to end up me Buying a part every 2 weeks. Also my mom's gunna buy me one peice probly have her buy me a HD.

Does anyone have any pictures of this water cooled system in action? I just see pics of the pieces I want to see what it looks like put together.
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Old 2004-05-12, 18:56   Link #65
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Does anyone have any pictures of this water cooled system in action? I just see pics of the pieces I want to see what it looks like put together.

Here are a couple for you to enjoy :

Spoiler:


Edit: here are some more:

Spoiler:


The last two are picuters of the computer temperature before and after the water injected pump.
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Old 2004-05-12, 19:06   Link #66
durrem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
Here are a couple for you to enjoy :

The pedals of course are for pumping the water around. It's good exercise... you could loose a few pounds with a water cooling setup
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Old 2004-05-12, 20:13   Link #67
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Bah Water cooling is so oldschool, promies and peltiers are the way of the future
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Old 2004-05-12, 20:37   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_
Bah Water cooling is so oldschool, promies and peltiers are the way of the future
And what exactly are those? Pictures, who makes, where to find?

BTW thanks wnkryo that really puts into perspective of how those things are setup. Water cooling seems VERY effective but seeing how the resivoir and all the other stuff seem to take up more space outside the case. I dont really like that. I mean I could build my own case but it wouldnt be as clean as the ones you can buy. Here is kinda what im looking for in a case. ATX Mid Tower Case
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Old 2004-05-12, 21:02   Link #69
durrem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Here is kinda what im looking for in a case. ATX Mid Tower Case
That case is loaded full of 80mm fans, so it will be a little noisy. I'd go for something that uses 120mm fans instead. Lower noise for the same performance. I'm partial to Antec myself:

Antec Sonata
Antec SLK3700-BQE
Antec Super Lanboy

If you need flash, you could go for this one. The intake fan is 120mm, but the rest are 80mm iirc. My friend has an earlier model (without the temp display) and the front lights look very nice.

Also, I'm very wary of no name power supplies that come with cases. You should go for either Fortron power supplies or Antec's True Power series of power supplies. If you want to drop a bank on it you could go for PC Power and Cooling as well. These will give you nice steady rails when you crank up the speed. (also, if you're not overclocking, they will give you more stability overhead etc etc... One less thing to go wrong)
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Old 2004-05-12, 22:41   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
And what exactly are those? Pictures, who makes, where to find?
Peltier based cooling is a tricky thing to handle. You need to find the right balance between several various factors, making it not that easy a thing to start using with no experience.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/peltiercoolers/

In case you're still interested, that will provide you with most of the information you'll need to start with.
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Old 2004-05-13, 00:06   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty

BTW thanks wnkryo that really puts into perspective of how those things are setup. Water cooling seems VERY effective but seeing how the resivoir and all the other stuff seem to take up more space outside the case. I dont really like that. I mean I could build my own case but it wouldnt be as clean as the ones you can buy. Here is kinda what im looking for in a case.
*in italics* not necessarily, you can cram a water/phase change system inside your computer.

*in bold* a completly clear case is pretty tight... ... problem is that the most popular handmade case is a completly clear lexan/plexiglass case... not that you would have any of these handmade purists around you

then again, mebbe you do.

**heh. the watercooling rigs seem very pathetic compared to the results of some Phase change rigs (is that what promies and peltiers are?) occasionally create frost on the inside of rigs (not good?)(yeah)

Quote:
The pedals of course are for pumping the water around. It's good exercise... you could loose a few pounds with a water cooling setup
ah, what an untainted mind can see... ...

i would never have that, for FFXI does not require accelerator/brakes.
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Old 2004-05-13, 00:33   Link #72
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
*in italics* not necessarily, you can cram a water/phase change system inside your computer.

*in bold* a completly clear case is pretty tight... ... problem is that the most popular handmade case is a completly clear lexan/plexiglass case... not that you would have any of these handmade purists around you

then again, mebbe you do.

**heh. the watercooling rigs seem very pathetic compared to the results of some Phase change rigs (is that what promies and peltiers are?) occasionally create frost on the inside of rigs (not good?)(yeah)

ah, what an untainted mind can see... ...

i would never have that, for FFXI does not require accelerator/brakes.
Ya the completly clear ones are pretty cool, but I pretty much want mine exactly how the one I posted... Shit i might just buy that one lol. as for noise w/ the big fans.... eh.. are they really that loud? I mean my old pos comp right now is pretty loud and it doesnt bother me, so its all good. *Yes I am going to buy a power supply and not use the one w/ the any case that I get*

As for the Cooling system.... Wow this shit is definately a whole new can of worms. Seems that those Peltiers arent all that great by themselves since they can only transfer so much heat they end up not doing that good of a job. Now put a watercooling rig on there to cool down the hot side of the Peltiers and than we are talking some serious cooling power. I dont really plan on overclocking my processor that far to the point that I would need that. I might though if I get one of those 64 AMD's.... I do do a good share of gaming so.... still thinking..... Oh yah.. I would have to Gunk the whole computer practically to prevent the condenstation from shorting out my shit.... would be pretty cool though lol
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Old 2004-05-13, 13:14   Link #73
hobobaggins
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buy a coolermaster case- those dont come with a PSU (as i understand)

Quote:
Now put a watercooling rig on there to cool down the hot side of the Peltiers and than we are talking some serious cooling power
buy an old water fountain and use the whole cooling mechanism to keep your chips cool
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Old 2004-05-13, 14:50   Link #74
Roots
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Alright, I've been putting off posting in this thread for like a month now... I put together my first system last summer, and I was kind of in the same market you are now. I would recommend researching each part thoroughly, and then taking the best 2-3 and putting them on a spreadsheet. Then when you have all the figures laid out, it will help you to make the best decision. As an example, here is the spreadsheet I put together last summer (using C commenting style):


// I 'virtually' built two systems, centered around either an Intel or AMD CPU. In the end the Intel system was the one I built.


Intel System

Component ------- Model --------------------------------------------------------------- Price
Monitor ----------------- Hitachi 17inch LCD CML174 ------------------------------ $479.01
Motherboarb --------- MSI 655 Max, 4-DIMM DDR400, 8X AGP, 6 PCI ---- $104
CPU ---------------------- Pentium 4 2.4GHz, 533 MHz FSB ------------------------ $143
System Memory ---- Samsung PC3200 DDR(400MHz) 512MB ------------- $66
Video Card ------------ ATI's Radeon 9500 Pro 128 MB DDR AGP8X CRT/DVI TV-OUT ------- $161.50
Hard Drive ------------- Seagate 120GB EIDE 7200RPM --------------------------- $106.97
DVD/CD-ROM Drive - Samsung Internal IDE 12x DVD-ROM, 40x CD-ROM ---------- $32
Sound Card ----------- Creative Labs Sound Blaster (SB) Live! 5.1 ------------ $29.99
Cooling ----------------- Zalman CNPS7000-Cu ----------------------------------------- $43
Case --------------------- Chenming Model# AX-01 Silver w/ Side Panel Window Front USB 2.0 --------- $80
Power Supply ------- Enermax EG465P-VE (430W) -------------------------------- $79
TV Tuner -------------- ASUS TV Tuner Card -------------------------------------------- $59.99
Total System Cost (including shipping): $1,384.46

// I didn't actually build the Athlon system, but I still think it would have been a good one
Athlon System
Component ------- Model --------------------------------------------------------------- Price

Motherboard --------- ASUS A7N8X, 8X AGP, 5 PCI, 4-DIMM DDR 3200, AUDIO, LAN ------ $112
CPU ---------------------- Athlon XP 2600 2.13GHz, 333MHz FSB -------------- $140
System Memory ---- Samsung PC3200 DDR(400MHz) 512MB ------------ $66
Video Card ------------ ATI's Radeon 9500 Pro 128 MB DDR AGP8X CRT/DVI TV-OUT ------ $148
Hard Drive ------------- Ultra ATA/100 EIDE 100GB -------------------------------- $86
DVD/CD-ROM Drive - Samsung Internal IDE 12x DVD-ROM, 40x CD-ROM ------- $30
Sound Card ------------ Creative Labs Sound Blaster (SB) Live! 5.1 ---------- $29
Cooling ------------------ Zalman CNPS7000-Cu --------------------------------------- $43
Case ---------------------- Chenming Model# AX-01 Blue w/ Side Panel Window Front USB 2.0 ------- $60
Power Supply --------- Enermax EG365P-VE (400W) ------------------------------ $49
Total System Cost (excluding shipping): $743


// After doing a lot of research, these are the components that I selected from to construct those two systems
Components


Motherboards
- MSI 655 Max, 4-DIMM DDR400, 8X AGP, 6 PCI (Pentium) ------------------- $99
- ASUS P4C800 Deluxe, 4-DIMM DDR400, 8X AGP, 5 PCI (Pentium) ------ $192
- MSI K7N2 Delta Series, 3-DIMM DDR400, 8X AGP, 5 PCI (Athlon) -------- $85
- ASUS A7N8X, 8X AGP, 5 PCI, 4-DIMM DDR 3200, AUDIO, LAN (Athlon) - $112

CPU
- Pentium 4 2.4GHz, 533 MHz FSB ---------------------------- $145
- Pentium 4 2.53GHz, 533 MHz FSB -------------------------- $178
- Athlon XP 2400 1.93GHz, 266MHz FSB ------------------- $91
- Athlon XP 2600 2.13GHz, 333MHz FSB ------------------- $140

System Memory
- Samsung PC3200 DDR(400MHz) 512MB ----------------- $66
- Corsair PC3200 DDR(440MHz) 512MB -------------------- $79

Video Card
- ATI's Radeon 9500 Pro 128 MB DDR AGP8X CRT/DVI TV-OUT --------- $148
- ATI's Radeon 9700 Pro 128 MB DDR AGP8X CRT/DVI TV-OUT --------- $270
- nVidia GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB DDR --------------------------------------------- $122
- nVidia GeForce4 TI 4400 128MB DDR --------------------------------------------- $157

Hard Drive
- Seagate 120GB EIDE 7200RPM ------------------------------- $103
- Ultra ATA/100 EIDE 100GB ------------------------------------- $86
- 60.0GB EIDE ATA/133, 5400 RPM --------------------------- $66

DVD/CD-ROM Drive
- Samsung Internal IDE 12x DVD-ROM, 40x CD-ROM -------- $30

Sound Card
- Creative Labs Sound Blaster (SB) Live! 5.1 ---------------------- $29

Cooling
- Zalman CNPS7000-Cu -------------------------- $43

Case
- Chenming Model# AX-01 Silver w/ Side Panel Window Front USB 2.0 ----------- $70
- Black X-Dreamer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $59

Power Supply
- Enermax EG465P-VE (430W) ------------------------------------------------------------------- $79
- Antec TruePower 430W PSU ------------------------------------------------------------------- $85
- Enermax EG365P-VE (400W) ------------------------------------------------------------------- $49

TV Tuner
- ASUS TV Tuner Card ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $60

Monitor
- Dell UltraSharp 1800FP 18-inch Flat Panel LCD Monitor ---------------- $557
- Hitachi 17inch LCD CML174 ---------------------------------------------------------- $480


The only part I'm dissatisfied with in my Intel system is the DVD player. I thought to myself "Eh, I know Samsung, and a DVD player isn't that important so I'll just buy this cheap one". WRONG! Its slow and jumpy and awful.

************************************************** **********************************

Roots' tips for building your own PC

1) Don't buy a 'bare-bones' system. They usually throw a crappy PSU, a crappy mother-board, and crappy fans in a cool-looking case to make you think "Wow, this is a great start-up system for such a low cost!" (its usually low-cost for a reason...)

2) If you buy a case with fans, you might need to replace them (unless you like a lot of noise). My original system came with just one fan (which I still use), but for the other 4 fan slots I bought the Panaflow L1A's, which are SO quiet you can't hear them even with your ear up to them

3) About cooling options, my opinion is that you don't need anything fancy like water cooling (I'm terrified of the thought of having water pipes rupture in my PC). I live in Phoenix, and the ambient temperature in my room can easily get up to or above 90F (but I'm still comfortable at that temp). The Zalman unit I installed is not only extremely quiet, but extremely good at what its supposed to do (it was a bitch to install though). Just goes to show don't ignore a cooling option just because its not 'high-tech' enough

4) Like I said before, research research research. The link I provided above to Anandtech was the single most useful site I found for looking at components. Its nice to see a side-by-side comparison on the same machine with different video cards like Anandtech does. Also don't look at just one benchmark and think "Oh this is obviously better", because some cards may be better/worse and handling different loads.

5) The Anandtech forums are a good place to go to ask advice of 'real' computer junkies. Be careful what you say though, those guys in there are brutal and if you say something wrong they will bash, rant, and flame you until you can't sleep anymore. Its a horrible, EVIL forum, but still has a lot of knowledgable members

6) As for the best online sites to look for components: PriceWatch and NewEgg can't be beat. I would recommend buying most of your stuff from NewEgg though, even if you find a cheaper part or PriceWatch. A lot of sites PriceWatch lists are freaking ghetto (also NEVER buy something that contains the word 'generic' from that site). I made that mistake when I ordered parts for my machine, and it was a pain. When I got my CPU a couple of the pins were actually bent, and there was dust in between pins. (I fixed it with a toothpick and it worked fine, but still...).


That's all I have to say for now I think. Whew, that took like 20 minutes

Last edited by Roots; 2004-05-13 at 15:05.
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Old 2004-05-13, 15:03   Link #75
raikage
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What are some brands to stay away from - as far as mobo's go?
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Old 2004-05-13, 15:13   Link #76
durrem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage
What are some brands to stay away from - as far as mobo's go?
Some good brands: Abit, ASUS, Gigabyte

Stay away from: Intel, ECS, PCChips (and other noname stuff. Basically, if they don't tell you the brand, don't buy it.)
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Old 2004-05-13, 15:33   Link #77
Roots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durrem
Some good brands: Abit, ASUS, Gigabyte

Stay away from: Intel, ECS, PCChips (and other noname stuff. Basically, if they don't tell you the brand, don't buy it.)
I think MSI is a good mobo manufacture as well. At least I have an MSI mobo and I'm really happy with it. But yes I agree with everything durrem said
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Old 2004-05-13, 15:40   Link #78
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage
What are some brands to stay away from - as far as mobo's go?
Intel. no Overclocking ability. they would rather you buy faster chips.

i would personally stick to Abit and Asus... not sure about gigabyte... and soyo (i think that is the name...)

and anything that comes in an intel cpu/mobo bundle. (Namely ECS mobos, but some others)
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Old 2004-05-13, 16:23   Link #79
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roots
I think MSI is a good mobo manufacture as well. At least I have an MSI mobo and I'm really happy with it. But yes I agree with everything durrem said

MSI is a very very good brand name hardware company. They make every thing from graphic chips to motherboards. Check out www.pcmag.com. You will find alot of cool information there.
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Old 2004-05-13, 19:52   Link #80
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Woo great info ^__^ > I never thought of mock building 2 systems centerd around the chips Im looking at getting.. Im going to have to do that.

As for the cooling sytems goes. The chips Im looking at Ive been doing quite a bit of research on them and both the Intel's and the 64 bit AMD's run pretty hot. Especially overclocked AMD's. Now dont get me wrong fans do do a good job but if i do get an AMD im going to get another cooling system for it. Theres just no good reason why not to *other than money*. I dont want to take the chances of frying my precious 250+ dollar processor. It would be cool to subzero the biatch w/ a peltier system backed up by a water cooler just to see what those AMDs can do though :P

I'll put together a list and post it within a day or two of stuff Im looking at. Ill make 2 mock systems. 64bit AMD and a Pen 4 setup.
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